Military question for Spydie folks

C

Corduroy

Joined
Apr 15, 1999
Messages
1,442
I realize that I just said elsewhere that I wasn't going to mess with my Military, but I do have this one little question...

I've been drilling with it and finding that I get terrible snagging from the blade "hump" in virtually all of the pants I wear. I can adjust my technique and carry position to reduce this, but I can't seem to stop it from happening entirely. I have to think that when I needed it most would be "one of those times" when it snagged and prevented rapid deployment.

The problem comes from the abrupt curve of the hump and the thumb-grooving on it. The edge of my pocket folds over this as I draw and grabs the knife with remarkable tenacity. So here's the question:

There appears to be a fair width of metal around that area of the hole. Might I grind it down slightly to both soften the angle of the "hump" and reduce the upper thumb-grooving? In your best Spydie opinions, could I safely remove enough metal to fix my concerns without jeopardizing the strength of the hole? Anything I should watch out for? Might my warranty remain intact after such a trifling modification?

I don't mind anyone's response, but I'd like an official Spydie opinion most of all. I grow more fond of this knife each day, but this is an "Achilles' heel" in my overall impressions of it.

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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
How about if you "de-hone/burr" both sides of the thumb grooves. This might help.

Anyway way go, I'd be interested in reading the result!
 
If you do do any grinding on it, chances are you'll void the warranty. I'm not a Spydie employee, but I think Sal will back me up on this.

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Just because I talk to myself doesn't mean I'm crazy. What's wrong with getting a second opinion?
 
Corduroy - since you are already a budding knifemaker, it's time to begin in the "design" area. The problem is the "Texture" (serrations) on the back of the hump. The function of this texture is to prevent the thumb from slipping forward (many have asked for the texture on the back of the Police).

This "function" works against us in tip down carry when we design in the hump. A constant design problem in every humped tip down Spyderco.

This is one of the reaons the Military is not deep pocket carry. I have adjusted my technique by a slight counterclockwise rotation as I deploy.

What I would really like is a design solution and Spyderco R & D has been too busy with "Immediate" projects and hasn't addressed this in some time. (I will bring it up at the next R & D Meeting).

Why don't you grind the sharp outer edge down little by little to see if this provides sufficient relief to avoid snagging the pocket. keep me informed, I'll cover the warrantee.

It's not a problem on the humpless models, but deployment is considerably quicker and more secure with the large hole/hump/high carry combination. I'm not sure that the serration on the back of the hump is really necessary with such a large hump. I didn't put any on the "Martial" folder for that very reason. I would be interested in opinions.
sal
 
Thats it, I'm sold !!!!!!!!

Sal, I have not considered buying a Military until now. This time you have really impressed me. Don't worry, I won't be doing any "self modifications"
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Oh my god...if Corduroy finds out that I am buying a military I will never hear the end of it
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All the knives in the world go round and round, round and round, round and round...DAMN, one of them took my wallet !!!
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[This message has been edited by Dark Nemesis (edited 27 June 1999).]
 
He won't hear it from me, I promise...he still seems to find out these sort of things though.
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~Greg~


 
Hehehe, hey Dark Nemesis,

Don't worry about it, that's how they finished winning me over, too. When I came on here only two months ago, I voiced some substantial gripes I had with the initial production Militaries (the only ones I had seen at the time). I was amazed that Spyderco's president would take the time to answer my concerns patiently, and would concede a number of troubles they initially had with the knife and explain how they were fixed. I was already a Spydie fan... I think at that point "fanatic" became a better term
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I know what it is to love the shapely Benchmades, but I think you'll be surprised how pretty Spydies get after you spend time with them and let your hands tell your eyes what beauty is.

On to the Military!

I think a large part of the problem may be that the thumb grooves are the sharpest and most aggressive of any production knife I've seen. I assume this was in keeping with the idea that the Military would be easy to use with gloves on (I've tried it and it is substantially better than my other knives when so encumbered). Still, I think the grooves are excessive and was pleased to see them deleted from the choil. To quote Ed Fowler: "File nicks and sharp angles...are not to be found upon the knife that I carry and depend." I'm not usually a hard user, but I feel that only the lightest grooving (or well-buffed and rounded filework) is appropriate on the blade spine. A Police has been among my carry collection for several years, and many of my friends have them as well. None of us experience our thumbs slipping off of the hump, but all have expressed a desire for very light grooving there (though not strongly enough for me to take a file to my Ti Police yet).

I find that the snagging is less of a problem when I clip the knife slightly higher and at an angle in my pocket. Unfortunately, I'm experimenting to see if it will stay put, as I also like the clip fairly light. Also, rotating the knife on the draw as you suggested and keeping my draw tight to my body (a good idea anyhow) helps avoid snagging, too. The trouble is that whenever I think I've got it, I draw the knife quickly and suddenly when I'm unprepared and find I still occaisionally snag. Also, I have a small collection of knives of this type that I rotate carrying when in "safe" areas (otherwise it's the Civilian) and the Military is the only one I have to develop a special technique to deploy - all others I find I get into my hand the same way even if I'm not certain which I have.

OK, so I will begin by adding a light chamfer to the edges of the hump and see if this helps. Is that the "edge" you were referring to, Mr. Glesser, or did you mean the edge of each individual groove? Whether chamfering the spine a small amount is what you meant or not, I think it's a great idea that could solve this problem while keeping the grooves intact. If that fails, I'll take the back of the hump down slightly, which should both tame the grooving and give a slightly less abrupt angle. I'll post results later. Unfortunately, I can't really test a Military with lighter grooving because I'd need to start with one that had a plain spine, but if you'd like to know how it would work, I have no qualms about putting a little grooving on my new G-10 Police model; as I said, I've been considering this for a while (but didn't want to do it on the Ti). Let me know.

As an aside, I've had a much smaller but analogous problem when drawing Spydies that have a large, exposed locking notch (like the Police and the Civilian). That was easily correctable with practice, but I am pleased to see that many of the new designs rectify this by covering the locking notch when closed.

As always, I'm thankful for the response and amazed at the level of personal service - on a Sunday, no less!

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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)

[This message has been edited by Corduroy (edited 28 June 1999).]
 
Corduroy,

First, I've handled the knife you presented to Danelle and of course that lucky PA in Kodiak raves about those he obtained from you..... nice stuff. Any more in the offing?

Second, it may be my particular Military but the grooves are nicely rounded already and are not in the least abrasive. I found them to be a great aid when wearing nomex gloves. Accordingly I don't advocate Sal making a significant change... after all, it was designed for the active duty types and it sure seems to fill the bill there.

-=[Bob]=-
 
I don't own a Military, but if the grooves on the spine are as sharp as the ones on my BF Native, I'd probably be happier without them. On a knife with a positive choil/index finger cut-out as well as a hump, I don't think grooves offer much in the way of real improvement. In the Native, the grooves are either too far forward or too far back to be of much use (depending on how I hold the knife), and I find them uncomfortable during hard use. I'll admit the grooves look kind of cool though.

David Rock
 
I looked at my Military qand I,m not sure what you mean about gringing down the hump. There is just ot much extra steel there. Do you mean melting the edges of the spine or reducing the hump? The only thing I can see to do is melt the edges.
 
I polished the edges of the thumb serations lightly with my Dremel (using a "blue" ? wheel). It still gives a lot of grip for the thumb but does not hang up on my pocket at all.
 
I won't be melting anything!

I'm going to start by putting a light 45-degree chamfer on the rear portion of the hump for as far down as I can reach with a Dremel without scuffing the handles (unless someone has a good argument why a belt would be better suited, this seems the best method). I think this is best done with the knife open, as no other position offers substantially more of the spine to be worked. I will carry it in this configuration for a few days or a week and see if I can still make it snag. If I can, I will continue the process by removing a small amount of metal all the way across the spine in the same area, removing or lessening the grooves. I will not make any portion of the hole circumference thinner than the it already is at the top.

Bald1, I am unsure whether the Military has undergone different grooving styles. The grooves on mine (the newest model) are the same as I remember those on the first run being, and I assure you they are quite sharp and aggressive on the thumb, biting noticeably even while wearing gloves. They appear as if a roughly 3/32" hole were drilled and then cut away to half its width, though the marks in the groove are not consistent with a drill bit. Whether yours are "softer" by a difference of design or just our impressions I do not know.

I should have a chance to make the modification tomorrow and will post immediately.

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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
Some good input on "serration grooves", thanx much. I guess this will become a "priority" for R&D.

No melting of CPM please, melting causes carbon and vanadium migration and ruins the purpose of the particle metalurgy.

Corduroy - I think a radius would work better than a chamfer, but I think you are proceeding in the right direction.
sal
 
Um, minor delay. I apologize to any awaiting my results. Seems that in my usual fine form, I brought my Dremel back from the most recent trip to "the shop" but forgot the bits. It's a Heavy-Duty Flex-Shaft, so they don't pack up all neatly together. I'll be back to my shop by the weekend and will do the work then. I'll try to find a way to post from there.

I agree that radiusing might be better than chamfering, but I am uninclined to try more complex movements with a Dremel tool while working a small, curved surface and trying not to hit the handles or anywhere else. Also, I think a chamfer might not look out-of-place, since the handle is chamfered. My goal is to at least remove the sharp 90-degree "tooth" made by the edge of each groove at the spine's edges.

Boy, this is tricky without napkin doodles and hand-waving, isn't it? Nevertheless, the dialog is much-appreciated by this over-awed ELU
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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
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