Military vs. ZT 0560 ...

I enjoyed reading your review. The overhanging g10 is defiantly not a design flaw on the zt0560. To me its obviously a more tactical design and its there to make it harder to accidentally disengage the lock bar.
 
The overhanging element is a design element, not a flaw. If you don't like the element, that's one thing, to say it's a flaw is...wrong.
 
I have both and though I usually like my knives thin and slicey I LOVE the 0560. Its very stout but still slices very well.

Overall its a much stronger knife than the Millie but is heavier and won't slice as well. But as of right now I prefer the extra strength and thickness of the blade to the light weight and slicing ability of the millie.

Also flipper are just more fun. There's no way around it. :)
 
I edc both knives...usually at the same time and I'm not afraid to use my military for anything. The fact that you view it as a weaker knife is laughable...but to each their own. Aside from that...nice review. Thanks for taking the time.
 
The Military's blade has a much thinner tip as well as a shorter blade height wise, as well as a full flat grind. This means less steel. Less steel = less strength.

The Military could probably handle anything a normal person throws at it. Even with the thin tip broken ones are pretty rare. But in terms of which one is stronger the 0560's blade shape lends itself to more strength because it has a lower grind, is taller, and generally thicker with less distal taper. I think if you tried some prying the tip of the mille would snap off before the tip of the 0560.

But for EDC I don't usually pry anything and for most users having a thinner tip is better for EDC tasks.

Thats not to say that one is better than the other but I think its fairly evident from a design standpoint that the ZT was built for strength and the Millie was built for slicing.
 
A cornerstone in Spyderco's Save and Serve line up, the Military Model came about after someone asked Spyderco's owner Sal Glesser, "If your son were going into the military what folding knife would you send him with?" For certain, it had to meet the requirements of a high-performance, light-weight folder designed for hard use.
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I don't think Sal would let his son go to war with a knife that's a compromise. Less steel equalling less strength is also a misnomer. Albeit I'm sure we don't need to get into a structural conversation here as I see your point. I just don't feel the same way. Again, to each their own. I also mentioned that I often carry both together and have no qualms about using my military for the same things that my ZT gets used for. I'm not easy on my knives...but I also don't abuse them. I'm trying to think of what I could do that may compromise the integrity of either knife and under "normal" conditions that answer eludes me. If you have some examples I am open to hear them. Maybe they just haven't occurred to me as everyone's situations regarding knife usage seem to be different.
 
Im not easy on my knives either but I don't do anything that would constitute abuse.

Here's an example that happened to me today.

Lobster was on sale for ridiculously cheap today so I purchased a 4.5lb beast of a lobster and cooked it up with my brother. We just moved into our new house and most of our tools are still packed away/ disorganized etc...

So when It came time to crack open this beast of a lobster the best tool I had access to was my ZT 0560 that was in my pocket. I used it like a chisel to open up the lobster's claws which were insanely thick. I had to hammer the knife pretty hard with my hand but I was never worried about it breaking. I felt very comfortable using my 0560 for this.

However if I had my M390 Millie in my pocket I wouldn't have attempted this. Thin tip +M390 = high possiblity of damage when being hammered into a lobster claw.

Not to say the Millie couldn't have done it but I just don't feel as comfortable using such a thin and slicey knife for a hard task.

The millie is plenty strong for just about everything you can throw at it. Its not a weak knife. But the ZT 0560 is stronger because it was designed to be a blade that sacrifices some cutting ability for strength.
 
KalEl said:
Im not easy on my knives either but I don't do anything that would constitute abuse.

Here's an example that happened to me today.

Lobster was on sale for ridiculously cheap today so I purchased a 4.5lb beast of a lobster and cooked it up with my brother. We just moved into our new house and most of our tools are still packed away/ disorganized etc...

So when It came time to crack open this beast of a lobster the best tool I had access to was my ZT 0560 that was in my pocket. I used it like a chisel to open up the lobster's claws which were insanely thick. I had to hammer the knife pretty hard with my hand but I was never worried about it breaking. I felt very comfortable using my 0560 for this.

However if I had my M390 Millie in my pocket I wouldn't have attempted this. Thin tip +M390 = high possiblity of damage when being hammered into a lobster claw.

Not to say the Millie couldn't have done it but I just don't feel as comfortable using such a thin and slicey knife for a hard task.

The millie is plenty strong for just about everything you can throw at it. Its not a weak knife. But the ZT 0560 is stronger because it was designed to be a blade that sacrifices some cutting ability for strength.
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Very well said and I, for one, highly agree. :thumbup:
 
I have to admit...with both knives in my pocket I would have made the same choice...for the same reasons I'm sure. Kinda "let's not tempt fate with a sprint run knife" ordeal. Fracturing the tip would have been the first thing going through my mind...

(being a New England native this example works real well for me...damn I miss Maine lobster now...the lobster here is a joke...)

KalEl said:
Im not easy on my knives either but I don't do anything that would constitute abuse.

Here's an example that happened to me today.

Lobster was on sale for ridiculously cheap today so I purchased a 4.5lb beast of a lobster and cooked it up with my brother. We just moved into our new house and most of our tools are still packed away/ disorganized etc...

So when It came time to crack open this beast of a lobster the best tool I had access to was my ZT 0560 that was in my pocket. I used it like a chisel to open up the lobster's claws which were insanely thick. I had to hammer the knife pretty hard with my hand but I was never worried about it breaking. I felt very comfortable using my 0560 for this.

However if I had my M390 Millie in my pocket I wouldn't have attempted this. Thin tip +M390 = high possiblity of damage when being hammered into a lobster claw.

Not to say the Millie couldn't have done it but I just don't feel as comfortable using such a thin and slicey knife for a hard task.

The millie is plenty strong for just about everything you can throw at it. Its not a weak knife. But the ZT 0560 is stronger because it was designed to be a blade that sacrifices some cutting ability for strength.
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Both knives are amazing though and I think any potential buyer would be more than happy with either. I think its safe to say the M390 Millie and ZT 0560 are the some of the absolute finest production knives on the market. I consider myself very blessed to have both and to even have multiples of the Millie. :)
 
As far as everyone talking about the G10 hanging out over the lock bar and speaking as though this is a "flaw"

That is how it was designed, Hinderer's actual XM-18 has the exact same G10 overhang. It's done on purpose.

ETA: Thomas beat me to it, didn't read the whole thread just did a ctrl F on the first page.
 
I don't see "everyone" talking about the G10 overhang as being a flaw. I remember only one or two people feeling that way, and even for them it was a minor issue. Almost everyone is talking about how great the 0560 is, me included.

At Thomas explained, the overhang is there for appearance. Fine with me. The lock is still fairly easily accessed with the overhang.

The issue is not whether the overhang is a flaw, but whether the individual owner appreciates the small added functionality of eliminating the overhang or whether he more appreciates the visual line created by the overhang. I could go either way, but I'm happy the overhang is long gone on my 0560 because it is now a little more hand friendly. I don't even notice the change in appearance.

The part of the discussion that hit a nerve with me was the notion that a framelock with easy access to the lockbar, as many of the best knives have, is somehow a dangerous knife. That's just not true.
 
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1SHOT1KILL said:
I edc both knives...usually at the same time and I'm not afraid to use my military for anything. The fact that you view it as a weaker knife is laughable...but to each their own. Aside from that...nice review. Thanks for taking the time.
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that's 99% about what makes a "hard use" knife "hard use" these days. it's all gut feeling and no reality.

obviously the zt will take more theoretical abuse, but the better question is, will the military NOT take the hard use that the knives will actually see. unless you do a lot of tip prying, I really don't think it's a realistic view that the military is anything close to weak.

I'd rather not sacrifice cutting ability for some notion in my mind about needing extreme levels of toughness.

of course, I'm not everyone, that's why the fine guys make really nice zt knives. knives that just aren't for me.
 
I'd take the 560 over the arachnid every time. It's just more my style. I prefer metal knives. Knives with plastic or synthetic handles do nothing for me
 
sir_mike said:
Well, like people said, to each its own but to me it is a flaw. I didnt say it was a poor design but it should have been cut back more, maybe not all the way to expose the liner but at least half way back because it doesnt need to stick out like it does.
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The scale is not sticking out proud, it lines up with the profile of the lock side.
The metal liner has a cut back to allow more thumb purchase on the lock bar.

This is how Rick Hinderer designed it.

Hinderer XM-18

Washer_2.jpg
 
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