Mill & Drill machine; which one should I buy?

anvilring

anvilring

Joined
Nov 29, 2000
Messages
2,869
I'm sooooooo sick of the POS that I own that's masquerading as a f****** drill press! It's head high, Chinese, must weigh 220lbs,and is liable to wallow out a hole just as soon as drill one! So, I need help. First of all I'm tired of drilling a line of holes, useing a damn jeweler's saw to cut through between'em then file out for my guard holes, not to mention just drilling a DAMN STRAIGHT HOLE (the first time for once...) in my for pins in the tang. Also of great importance, I need something precise enough for some folder work. Not the extra anal retentive "oh my God! it's off .0000000001 ths.!!" Just something accurate for traditional slip joint and lock back pocket knives at an affordable price. I want to be able to mill "slots" in stuff... brass, nickle mild steel ect.... All this in the context of knifemaking applications; nothing larger. Here below are three I've found on ebay, I'd like some experienced opinions if some of you have the time....

regards, (and through venting... ;)

mitch

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58254&item=3857924230&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58254&item=3858635189&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58254&item=3857981511&rd=1
 
I think Chris Crawford uses the one in your second link in his Scale Release Autos video.

I too am in the market for one....I've cheated in the past by buying small mill bits and after drilling holes, using a small 1/8" bit to clean up the cell walls, edges, etc. Tedious at best...

From all I've read, Homier makes an decent entry-level mill. I think it is similar to the Central Machinery brand you can get from Harbor Freight. Lots of folks like 'em. Serious machinists hate 'em.

Another thing I've read....HP is everything. Get the most you can afford. The more the HP, the better the mill usually. Again, just what I have surmised.

Don't be swayed by any nay-sayers....you do get what you pay for....but maybe you don't need top-of-the-line. That link for the $179 mill is mighty tempting....!
 
Think of it this way, you can do small intricate work on a big machine like a bridgeport. You can't do big work on a small machine. I tried to mill a 3/16 slot in 1/8 NS with a friends mini mill and it wobbled all over the place.
Invest in something that you have to buy once.
 
The first and last one I have read that they flex pretty bad unless you fill the column with concrete or make a column out of solid steel. The middle one is the one "everyone" (Harbor Freight, Grizzly, Enco, etc.) makes and they are all made in the same factories in China. Homier has the cheapest prices usually. A lot of gunsmiths use this one. The thing with it and the small mill/drill and the larger mill/drills is that you can move the head up and down with out resetting everything because of the dovetail column. The mill/drills having the round column and 5 inches of travel, if you have to move the head you can't get it back exactly where it was. (people do mods so they can, keyways, laser pointers bounced into a mirror and back on a grid, etc) About anything you want to do as a knife maker makes that a non-issue. They all have enough travel that it will not be an issue. But IMO, you would be better off buying a good X/Y table and keep what you have over the cheaper mill/drill that you have listed in your first and last link. Your bigger chinese drill is probably heavier and more rigid casting anyway. Maybe not better, but heavier duty. Which ever Chinese machine equipment you buy, everyone I have ever heard on the yahoo groups say they are "kits". Meaning they must be torn down and cleaned really good to get all the casting sand out.
You should go to Homier's website and sign up for their mobile sales notifications. They notify you by email when a sale comes up in your area. You save shipping (but pay sales tax) and sometimes you get a bargain. Expect long lines and tons of people though. Also, you have to go the first day of the sale (usually 2 and 3 day sales) or the big stuff will be sold out. I got this big mill/drill last Christmas at a Homier sale for $499. Homier Big "Red" mill Mine is red but the same one. Weighs almost 700#'s Still packed in Chinese cosmoline unfortunately. :(
 
Roosko said:
Go to Sherline's website. www.sherline.com

They say "Made in the USA" and their mini-mills and lathes look pretty good for the price.

Anybody used one?

Robert
Click to expand...
The sherline and the taig stuff are both quality American made, accurate machines but they are small. I have 2 taig lathes and they are accurate and nice. But are just for tiny stuff. (the taig lathe head and mill head are the same part) I made a tool for a muzzle loader the other day out of an 7 inch piece of 3/4" cold rolled mild steel and it was all that thing could handle. It got it done but didn't like it much. I went slow and it did ok, but was really sloooow. I know someone that has the Chinese 7x12" lathe and it is more like a mini commercial lathe than this one. power feed, screw threading, etc that these won't do.
But they all say, the more mass the better on any machine made to work steel.
 
I don't have any experience with these things at all, so I probably shouldn't say anything. But I really really have to question how a good a mill could be thats cheaper than my Delta 12" drill press. I thought a lot about buying one of these little machines but that keeps popping into my head. I don't completely hate my drill press, but there are times that I'm close, and I just can't see a machine thats so much more complex, but costing the same or maybe a 100-200 more, really being very good quality. I should re-phrase that, maybe they are accurate, but are they sturdy enough to do what I really want them too? Is it really worth my money, or will it just be a different kind of frustration?
I don't really know the answer, but at this point I'd say I probably will have this stupid drill press until I'm out of school and can at least afford something like the big mill/drill that wilton makes. Doing things by hand really gets me frustrated sometimes, but expensive machines that don't make things any easier really piss me off. And I don't need anything else to piss me off, got plenty already :D
Just some random thoughts, not even worth 2 cents really :)
 
Of the three you listed, I wouldn't waste the $$ on any of them.

Don't get anything with the words "mini" or "micro" in the name.

Get the biggest one you can afford. I have one with a 2HP motor on it, that weighs about 800#and wish I had a bigger one, though it will do the job you describe with no problem.

Harbor Freight has them for about $800-1400, depending on the model, and remember they pay the freight on any order over $50.00.
That is a considerable savings.

If you get one of those small ones, you will, most likely, be dissatisfied, and will have wasted money you could have put towards a better one.

JMO.
 
Mitch, forget all the "mini" crap!
I've gone that route and wasted my time and money on it and just burned up the motor control curcuit board on my current mill while milling a 1/4" slot in a piece of 3/4" thick stock. I'm going to order a larger model from Harbor Freight as soon as I can afford it. Their machinery is good and accurate after you do some tweeking.
Take care!
Michael
 
That's one of the things I've considered, but didn't know about the quality (Harbor Freight) stuff. Is it really worth buying one of their higher-end pieces vs. a better name for two or three times as much? Also, what kind of "tweeking" needs to be done on them?
 
This is for situation overseas, YMMV: it would be more cost effective to look for out-of-business clearance sale of old milling machines, especially if you know what they've been though (if you're buddies with the previous owner). Milling machine will be far more accurate and easier to control - it'll take a tad longer to drill/mill holes than a drill press but you indicated in your post you're also interested inmilling out slots - a drill press will never do that since you have to move the object in vise manually - with a mill you get a moving table.

I wonder what a new small CNC mill would cost :rolleyes:
 
Burchtree said:
That's one of the things I've considered, but didn't know about the quality (Harbor Freight) stuff. Is it really worth buying one of their higher-end pieces vs. a better name for two or three times as much? Also, what kind of "tweeking" needs to be done on them?
Click to expand...
Like someone stated above, they're all made by the same comany/companies in Taiwan, or mainland China. The just put different decals/paint, depending on which distributor it goes to.

I got mine from Jet tools years ago, and paid $12-1400 for it. Harbor Freight had the exact same thing for several hundred less, plus they pay the freight. Jet didn't.:eek:
That's what I get for not looking.:rolleyes: ;)

If you're worried about getting parts after the sale, don't. I, and others have links to places where you can get replacement parts for any of those things.:D
 
Michael, by tweeking I just mean taking the cross slide apart and cleaning it good and then reassembling it with the proper lube and getting everything lined up and tightened so it operates smoothly. Most of the H.F. stuff I've bought has had a lot of loose screws and it comes packed in some real funky grease. Nothing comes dead on square either.
The only H.F. item that I'd stay away from is the multi machines, the lathe mills. I bought one and it was a lousey mill and a lousier lathe.
 
As a mechanic and machinist most of my life, I am sick to death of cheap Asian-made machinery. With few exceptions, it crap. If you stick to American or European-made stuff, you generally can't go wrong. That said, you may wind up spending a few dollars more for it but your level of satisfaction will be much higher and the quality of your work will be MUCH better. ;)

Any of you who have seen my shop, know that I have a mix of Asian and American equipment in it. I'm slowly weeding out the Asian stuff in favor of higher-quality gear made in USA. Its worth the effort, imho. :)
 
After reading all these, I called a friend of mine that owns a a large local machineist/fabrication/ oil field stuff... uhm... place (for lack of a better description) about where I might find a good used end mill US made?? He is bringing me a publication he gets for auctions of this very sort around the Houston area! So, I'm gonna wait and see what a good used machine goes for. One last prob fro me is of course space!

Women say: "you can never have too big a diamond!"

we say: "you can never have too big shop!"

thanks, mitch
 
I'll second what Michael Cooper said: the Taiwanese 3-in-1 machines are not a good deal. I bought one from HF and it wobbles a pretty bit slot. Because it's all I have and can afford for the foreseeable future, I'm making do. Much of the wobble should go away once I get a collet set for it; I was dumb enough to think I could use the chuck for milling. Wrong. Even so, I'm still doing it and for what I'm using it for I've managed to make it workable. This is what Matt was talking about with exchanging one frustration for another. I wouldn't do it twice.

That being said, I think the machine in your second link might be sufficient for what you describe. It is the one Chris Crawford used in his video and I've been looking at them at HF ever since. If I had the bench space I might have one already. It'd be nice to have a fine American made mill but for the work I do it's just price prohibitive.

Finding a local machine tool auction might be a good bet too but in my experience good tools get bid up so high it wasn't worth my trip and time to bother. I've tried several times to score a decent machine - and that's yet another class of frustration.

Good luck! And please keep us informed what you end up with and your opinion of it.
 
Get a proper machine, the definition is Euro/US/Jpn thats impossible to pick up on your own. Buy the best you can afford (Look at the big picture) and cry only once.

I had a similar situation this evening albeit a different product, my wife was looking at chap rugs for the dining room, I finally talked her out of it when she saw some stuff she liked for 20x the price. I don't mind as I know its good enought o be there in 10~20 years (probably get thrown out before then but you know what I mean)

Crap is crap is crap and the stress and anger it causes when it doesent do what you want is vexing to say the least. In closing, is just plain false economy.
 
And ultimately, when you do purchase whatever you decide for, make sure its placed properly - dont just place it somewhere, make sure it has solid floor under it so it won't wobble around and it'll remain in perfectly aligned position once set up (table should be perfectly horizontal). Having a machinist friend with you when buying mills should help you alot because he can check out the gear and give you his opinion. Good luck with your auction peeking/purchase !!!
 
Mitch,

Is there an area want-ad weekly publication available down there? Up here we have a 3/4"-thick weekly called "Want-ADvertiser", and there's always great deasl on used machinery. This is my FIRST stop when searching for new equipment. It may take a few phone calls, but you'll be dealing directly with the owner, and ultimately you are getting exactly what you see. A broker is just that: More money out of your wallet to line the broker's pockets. Brokers piss me off, because they screw thigns up for the small guy.
 
jhiggins said:
As a mechanic and machinist most of my life, I am sick to death of cheap Asian-made machinery. With few exceptions, it crap. If you stick to American or European-made stuff, you generally can't go wrong. That said, you may wind up spending a few dollars more for it but your level of satisfaction will be much higher and the quality of your work will be MUCH better. ;)

Any of you who have seen my shop, know that I have a mix of Asian and American equipment in it. I'm slowly weeding out the Asian stuff in favor of higher-quality gear made in USA. Its worth the effort, imho. :)
Click to expand...

I've heard this same sentiment on these boards many times, but I found out the other day that Chuck Rogers, one of the best 1911 gunsmiths in the world, uses a made in Taiwan version of a Bridgeport. He's been doing this for many years, and is arguably one of the most proficiant machinists out there, and he claims that the Taiwan version is better (not to mention cheaper) than the American made.

I have zero experience in these matters but I thought it worth noting...

.
 
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