Milling machines

L

Lo/Rez

Joined
Feb 10, 2013
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Although I realize cheap and good do not belong in the same sentence, what would be a good somewhat inexpensive milling machine to buy if I were to get into folders? Is it necessary? Buying used would not be out of the question if I could find something decent.
 
Milling machines and surface grinders are on the expensive side of shop equipment if you buy new. Buying second hand will work if you have someone to run it a bit before putting the money out. Here in Canada surface grinders seem to be very scarce. As well many of the members here have reported that for knife use you should convert them to use belts rather than stones. This in itself is an expensive project for most of us.
I've been making liner locking folders for many years. I do not have a surface grinder nor do the 5 or 6 people who came to me to get help and are now making some pretty nice knives.
The process I use is the flat platen on my 2 X 72 with usually a 36 ceramic to start, then a 60. From there I now go to my discs. In the past it was a lot of hand sanding on a granite plate. I show to do is to work on a rectangle not an outline of the blade which is a bit in the shape of a triangle. Of course, as you go along this no longer applies. Yes, a reasonable micrometer is needed and must be used often.
I won't buy a surface grinder now, but I would recommend one to all .
Frank
 
A mill isn't necessary to make folders, I made hundreds before I got a mill. LMS mini mill is what I have and it's fine for this knifemaker. I do use a surface grinder on every folder I make, but all my blade, bolster & spine/spring stock is forged. I'd rather have a surface grinder than a mill in my shop.
 
Frank Niro said:
Milling machines and surface grinders are on the expensive side of shop equipment if you buy new. Buying second hand will work if you have someone to run it a bit before putting the money out. Here in Canada surface grinders seem to be very scarce. As well many of the members here have reported that for knife use you should convert them to use belts rather than stones. This in itself is an expensive project for most of us.
I've been making liner locking folders for many years. I do not have a surface grinder nor do the 5 or 6 people who came to me to get help and are now making some pretty nice knives.
The process I use is the flat platen on my 2 X 72 with usually a 36 ceramic to start, then a 60. From there I now go to my discs. In the past it was a lot of hand sanding on a granite plate. I show to do is to work on a rectangle not an outline of the blade which is a bit in the shape of a triangle. Of course, as you go along this no longer applies. Yes, a reasonable micrometer is needed and must be used often.
I won't buy a surface grinder now, but I would recommend one to all .
Frank
Click to expand...

Could you explain the process you go through with your discs?
 
Well, it's the usual going from course to finer grits. There is a definite need for speed control. I'm running my machine about 25% output. Still, this will make things flat but requires pressure control to make the sides of the material parallel. It too is very much a learning process as is all knife making work.
Frank
 
#1 most important folder making equipment - a really hard head! I'm not even kidding...


I have the LMS mil and a Grizzly G0759, both are good mills. Looking back I might have spent my money better taking a class on running the mill! I will say I like both of mine and spend more time behind the mill now than at the grinder ...but I can grind pretty fast.

You can make liner locks with a well trammed/rigid/square drill press. Maybe a junky one! Flatness is really important and that can be done my hand.

A surface grinder will be my next big purchase... I just finished my disc sander build and it is 1000x's better than the granite plate I used to do all lapping on.

I'm just rambling while I wait on lunch... listen to these guys as they are the best in the industry! I'm about 30 framelocks in and still learning on each one.


Frank are you disc sanding and measuring a lot to keep things parallel? I'm having good luck with this method, so far way better than I expected.
 
Frank Niro said:
Well, it's the usual going from course to finer grits. There is a definite need for speed control. I'm running my machine about 25% output. Still, this will make things flat but requires pressure control to make the sides of the material parallel. It too is very much a learning process as is all knife making work.
Frank
Click to expand...
Are you running a 1725rpm motor or 3450rpm? Do you use a work rest?
Daniel Fairly Knives said:
#1 most important folder making equipment - a really hard head! I'm not even kidding...

I have the LMS mil and a Grizzly G0759, both are good mills. Looking back I might have spent my money better taking a class on running the mill! I will say I like both of mine and spend more time behind the mill now than at the grinder ...but I can grind pretty fast.

You can make liner locks with a well trammed/rigid/square drill press. Maybe a junky one! Flatness is really important and that can be done my hand.

A surface grinder will be my next big purchase... I just finished my disc sander build and it is 1000x's better than the granite plate I used to do all lapping on.

I'm just rambling while I wait on lunch... listen to these guys as they are the best in the industry! I'm about 30 framelocks in and still learning on each one.

Frank are you disc sanding and measuring a lot to keep things parallel? I'm having good luck with this method, so far way better than I expected.
Click to expand...
Do you have info on your grinder build? Do you use a work rest on it?
Alpha Knife Supply said:
What kind of folder do you want to make (friction, slip joint, liner lock, frame lock)?

Chuck
Click to expand...
I was thinking a liner lock but will probably just try a frame lock as that is where my interest is.
 
I've always thought that Bridgeport made a nice small mill. It's very versatile and well made and they're not too expensive or difficult to find in our post manufacturing industrial wasteland. I ran one for years off a $100 static phase converter plugged into a drier outlet in the garage. I don't think they weigh much more than a ton so they don't require a special floor or a lot of drama moving one. Even though I pretty much mostly used it as a drill press, it was a very nice drill press. You can mill with them too!
 
Yes Daniel, you certainly must know that's the truth. By the way did you happen to read my replies in that thread on handle shaping? You can put together a simple "padded" disk and use it to shape the bolsters and scales much easier that doing it on a 2 X 72. I guess I should have gone with my own thread to let more read it. It's another of those ideas that just can't work you know.
Frank
 
Frank Niro said:
Yes Daniel, you certainly must know that's the truth. By the way did you happen to read my replies in that thread on handle shaping? You can put together a simple "padded" disk and use it to shape the bolsters and scales much easier that doing it on a 2 X 72. I guess I should have gone with my own thread to let more read it. It's another of those ideas that just can't work you know.
Frank
Click to expand...

I did and want to try out the method you spoke of. So far I really like the disc ... before I made knives I ground stones full time on a flat lap which is almost the same machine. I used a neoprene backing for the later grits and it helped a lot. I had not really thought of using the disc for handles but now it seems like it would work very well. Good stuff Frank!



Lo/Rez - I made a video, here's a link ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNAoJYRbnUY

The grinder is very solid and I am using it a lot. I really like that I can use inexpensive sandpaper and have a sharp, new cutting surface for lapping knives flat \... etc. I like it for cleaning up flat grinds too. i think they can be used for quite a lot.

No workrest but that wold be great, it would not be too tricky to add one. The motor I used can be front mounted so you can fab up whatever you want and bolt it to the front. I could see one taking the place of a horizontal grinder if the user wanted to do so.
 
I was told that Lee Valley had a rest for some discs that is very inexpensive $35 (?) but I can't use their new catalogue system to find it.
I was thinking maybe to make a belt pouch for the micrometer. I could also as well practice how fast I could draw it out. If I ever was to move to Texas and needed some "extra" protection this might be a leg up.
Frank
 
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I wanted to get a disk grinder set up for folders since I don't have a surface grinder. The only motor I have is 3450rpm. Will that be ok?
 
I'm guessing if it's 3 phase and you set it up with a VFD you would be good to go. Or some pulley reduction system.
 
Daniel Fairly Knives said:
I did and want to try out the method you spoke of. So far I really like the disc ... before I made knives I ground stones full time on a flat lap which is almost the same machine. I used a neoprene backing for the later grits and it helped a lot. I had not really thought of using the disc for handles but now it seems like it would work very well. Good stuff Frank!



Lo/Rez - I made a video, here's a link ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNAoJYRbnUY

The grinder is very solid and I am using it a lot. I really like that I can use inexpensive sandpaper and have a sharp, new cutting surface for lapping knives flat \... etc. I like it for cleaning up flat grinds too. i think they can be used for quite a lot.

No workrest but that wold be great, it would not be too tricky to add one. The motor I used can be front mounted so you can fab up whatever you want and bolt it to the front. I could see one taking the place of a horizontal grinder if the user wanted to do so.
Click to expand...

Thanks.
 
Except on integrals, I do not use a mill (I have two, very nice, knee mills) at all for making slipjoints. Neither does the guy that taught me, and he's an ABS Mastersmith that's been making pocketknives for 30 or 40 years.


We both wouldn't want to live without our surface grinders.


I will contest the idea that you need to convert a surface grinder to belts however. I do have one SG converted to belts, but I made sure to build it so I could switch back to stones conveniently. The only serious advantage of belts IMHO is in the ability to hog material, or occasionally to use odd abrasives for the finishes they offer (like scotchbrite belts or gator belts). This hogging ability is really useful for making damascus, not nearly as necessary for other work. In fact, in most cases, you're sacrificing accuracy. No matter how true or hard your contact wheel on a belt converted SG, the wheel will flex. It will cup and dish, and on top of that you have to deal with inaccuracies and variances in the belts, which aren't precision abrasives the way stones are.

Some people may think you need a belt conversion to keep from switching stones to get a fine finish. This is incorrect. I can put a better than 400 grit belt equivalent finish (that can be hand finished directly at 600 grit with minimal effort) with a 36 grit stone dressed properly, that'll be much more accurate for parallelism and flatness. I'm not just speculating here, I've indicated for this accuracy. Now of course there are techniques to mitigate this when using belts, however, unless you need the raw hogging ability, I have to ask, why make it more complicated if it's not necessary?


Many people will disagree with me here, YMMV, but I'd wager I've logged a few thousand more hours in front of a SG than 90% of other knifemakers. I don't say this to disparage anybody their tools or techniques, simply to challenge the idea that a belt conversion is necessary. I'm arguing that in most cases not only is it unnecessary, it's detrimental if you're doing it without good reason.


If you know why you need it, you definitely do. If you're just doing it because you heard it was a good idea, please save your money until you do have a legitimate need, and you understand the pros and cons.
 
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