Mini Glue War Winner - JB Weld

Sando

Sando

Knife Maker
Joined
Jul 4, 2002
Messages
1,148
I found my first test found out nothing except Simple Green leaves a reside that resists epoxy.

I made a mini war with 3 'glues'. The only prep was sanding the bar with an 80 grit. Then applying the adhesives. Waiting a few days, running thru the dishwasher then the imact bar test.

The results

round2a.jpg


DEVCON 2-ton 30 minute failed the impact test (Sample on right - gone)

Gorilla Glue (Sample on left) required several strong blows with a hammer. Dymond wood did a lot of chipping before it failed.

JB Weld (center) - never gave up. I continued to hammer after that picture. I completely destroyed the wood, but JB Weld never let go. There was a layer of wood covering the JB Weld that had to be ground off.

Personally I don't like the glue line you get with JB Weld, so I won't use it. But I thought you JB Weld fans would get a kick out of this.

Steve

PS I've prepared a new bar by sand-blasting. We'll see what happens this week.
 
Although I wouldn't like to see a glue line on a full tang knife, and probably wouldn't use JB Weld for those, I believe you've convinced me to use J.B. Weld for any hidden tang knives I might finish.
 
Danbo,

Another positive attribute of JBWeld is it doesn't shrink! Acraglas Gel is the only other product I found with that attribute. I believe that's important with hidden tangs. The problem is getting the stuff in there!?

Daniel,

It's on my re-test bar. We'll know in a week or two.

DEVCON is off my test list. The group for the retest is:


Acraglas
E-120HP
JB-Weld
Loctite Xtreme
U-05FL
Commercial "super Glue"
Gorilla Glue
West Systems

Steve

PS I'm gonna repeat this one more time, 'cause everyone confuses my intentions:

There are going to be a number of 'glues' that will work on knives. The best one isn't the strongest bond. For me it's the one that:

Holds very well (shear strength, impact/vibration)
Is not brittle
Does not crack handle materials that expand/contract differently than steel
Withstands freezing and heat
Works with a thin glue line
Doesn't introduce wild colors
Easy to work with/ apply
 
I agree with your checklist, Steve. I might also add "Cost/Availability" to the list as well.

Also - how about a "grade" or "score" for each category as you go along?

you could work it up in a spreadsheet later....

maybe "pass/fail/exceed".....or "A,B,C, Fail".....or "on a scale of 1 to 5".....etc.

Then, you could make a "final grade". Yes, Devcon failed the impact test, but is there anything else it's good for? What about knives with thin slabs that won't be "torqued" as hard? (personally, I don't use Devcon....but rather than dismiss it, you might be able to find it "best application").
 
Any chance you could add K&G's 2 part epoxy to the list? I can send you some if you want. I have been using it for about 3 years and it is great stuff. Let me know if you want me to send it.

Michael
 
As far as a glue line with JB Weld, on full tang knives, I've found that if you take a Q-Tip dipped in a product I use called Oops and clean up around the handle material/ tang area, you can almost eliminate it. Oops is a remover like Goof-Off, another product that's similar. If it's clamped and both surfaces are flat to one another this procedure works well at eliminating that glue line. JB Weld is great for hidden tang knives. I've rehandled some factory knives,used it and it holds rock solid.
Scott
 
Daniel, Tracy found similar results with DEVCON. It's not the cheapest and it's not the best. About the only thing going for it is you can find it at the hardware store. I don't exactly feel compelled to find a use, myself.

Michael,

I'd love to try some. K&G is a trusted supplier and I've heard great things about their epoxy (I'm sure it's a relabel of something else, but what?). I spent about all I cared to and it didn't make my list, but if you can send me just a little I'll try it!

Steve

(FWIW, now that I've had to mix and redo these tests over and over, ease of use is getting to be a big deal with me. For ease of use:

Loctite Xtreme (single component, easy cleanup)
Products that use the commercial adhesive gun (like Loctite E-120HP). It is sooo easy to accurately despense a small amount. Even though it's expensive, it might be cheaper than others. Also, E-120HP is just the right thickness: spreads easily, but doesn't run.

West Systems is runny and goes everywhere. So does DEVCON.
Acraglass gel has to be measured with little spoons that need cleaning. The disposable plunger-tube products are hard to use and store.

I REALLY like the commercial gun/cartridge products. (Brownells sells acra-weld in cartridge form if you are so inclined).
 
Sando said:
... now that I've had to mix and redo these tests over and over, ease of use is getting to be a big deal with me.,,
Click to expand...
eecopy6ui.jpg

"They LAUGHED at my theories on the forums! Fools! I'll destroy them all!"

Seriously Steve:) thank you for doing all these tests.
I look forward to seeing the results
Regards,
Greg
 
Greg, If I breath any more of these fumes I will look like that!

Steve

PS - You're Welcome!
 
Sando said:
Michael,

I'd love to try some. K&G is a trusted supplier and I've heard great things about their epoxy (I'm sure it's a relabel of something else, but what?). I spent about all I cared to and it didn't make my list, but if you can send me just a little I'll try it!

Steve
Click to expand...
If you email me your address i will send it out to you. Thanks for taking the time to do this test. it is appreciated.

I think i have a little bit left in the tub so i can send it out to you.

One thing about the K&G epoxy is that you use "a little bit more part A than part B" so you never run out of them at the same time. maybe thats there way to make you keep buying it? I have 1/2 a tub of part B and I just opened a new tub of part A.

Thanks

Michael
 
Daniel Koster said:
I agree with your checklist, Steve. I might also add "Cost/Availability" to the list as well.

Also - how about a "grade" or "score" for each category as you go along?

you could work it up in a spreadsheet later....

maybe "pass/fail/exceed".....or "A,B,C, Fail".....or "on a scale of 1 to 5".....etc.

Then, you could make a "final grade". Yes, Devcon failed the impact test, but is there anything else it's good for? What about knives with thin slabs that won't be "torqued" as hard? (personally, I don't use Devcon....but rather than dismiss it, you might be able to find it "best application").
Click to expand...
Dan, great idea. I'm going to use that.
Of all the tests so far, the clearest failure is Devcon 2 ton and Devcon 5 minute dual tube epoxy. The exotics that have been 'uncovered' are interesting and hold promise. The polyurethanes (gorilla glues), once you get past it foaming up, are holding up very well for use with wood scales.
 
Tracey and Steve, I just wanted to drop a quick message to say thanks as well for you guys doing these tests...this is good stuff!

:)

-Darren
 
First Off, Darren, you're welcome!


Ready for this?

You won't believe this one!

On my new, sand blasted test bar. JB Weld was the first failure. Yup! Some wood stayed on the steel. But most of the JB Weld released from the steel and stayed on the wood.

You see this time I squeezed the samples, not real hard, but with a C clamp. Everything else on that list withstood 3 impact tests. JB Weld came off on the first.

What this tells me is you need a fairly thick glue line with JB Weld. It doesn't like to be pressed thin. Funny tho that it was also the only sample that shows a glue line (that happens with JB Weld because it has steel fillers.)

Steve

One other thing I've learned either Tracy is a nut case or these fumes are really serious.
 
Thanks Darrin, I'm having fun with it so far and I think I have learned enough at this point to make it all worthwhile. I still have to get all of the adhesives to fail and then I have to do round two to verify round one. If they don't match I don't know what I'm going to do.
 
Perhaps I missed this information, but I have a question regarding the prep of the metal:

is there any cleaning done post-blasting to remove possible oil contamination from compressor oil that gets past the coalescer, or are you both using oiless compressors?

Thanks.
 
just remember that jb weld expands and gets hot as hell while curing. I ruined a nice ivory dagger handle to find out that one. i use only devcon 2 ton on natural handle materials. :D
 
Thanks Kim!

Mike,

I didn't use anything after the blaster. Other than wiping down with a dry paper towel. Could be some contamination left? I can't win for losing......

Steve
 
Most definitely the metal needs to be degreased before the application of any type of adhesive. That is part of the surface preparation required. If the metal is not absolutely degreased and clean, then the glue cannot form a proper bond, and it's not the adhesive that is letting go per se, but the contaminants.
 
Steve, it may not be an issue at all. Some compressors blow a little oil, which I would then be a bit concerned about. My ancient Craftsman would probably spraypaint the piece with oil. :eek:

I only mentioned it as a generic caveat for those who may not consider the possibility of the oil......
 
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