Minimalist Outdoors Folk

V

Vivi

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Dec 4, 2005
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As fun as it can be to collect and use various types of gear, I must admit I'm one of those live off the land types. I strive to bring as few things with me as I can and keep the amount of man-made items on my person to a minimum. I don't know, when I go hiking and such I like to utilize nature itself to the best of my ability. I think it's good training considering how easy it is to misplace or lose gear, or simply be caught in an unexpected survival situation.

I'm wondering if anyone else here adheres to this type of philosophy? My main items for journeys that last less than a day would be a SAK or a 3-4 inch folder and a lighter. Water if I don't think I'll be able to get it where I'm going to be at. I'm working on eliminating my needs for the lighter too.

Today for instance we had some more rain. Ohio has been quite rainy for the past week or so. I went for a nice 3 hour walk through some woods. Kept my eye out far various things I could use as tinder in the soaked woods I was visiting. Found some bark (Not sure what type of tree) that held a flame good enough to support the tinder. Collected small dry branches from fallen trees as I progressed through the woods. By the time I found an area that suited me, I had a pocketful of bark and a nice load of branches under my left arm. Set about splitting all the small branches in half so they'd catch better and made a teepee. Peeled the bark some to make it even thinner and set that at the base. Made my usual wood shavings and was good to go from there. Today all I had was a minibuck with a 2 inch blade or so and a lighter with about 1/16th of its fuel left. I managed to procure water and get a fire going, so I'm content. I'm a noob to all this stuff anyways.

I've been trying to educate myself on ways to work with natural resources rather than hefting my own materials along. How to make natural ropes, friction-based fire starting, so on and so forth.
 
I think this attitude is a result of a luxurious lifestyle. I used to think along the same lines but in reality, if we look at artifacts found, primitive peoples made their life as easy as possible as looking for dry tinder after fighting off a Sabre toothed tiger and running down an antelope for dinner is demanding enough :)

I agree that we should be able to improvise but I have nothing against taking kit with me either Otzi had his kit, why wouldnt I take mine?

I would like to hear others opinion on this, I like Mears style, enjoy the outdoors but there is no need to suffer, take your kit with you and make the most of it.
 
I agree with you Vivi. Hauling an anchor of manufactured goods because those indespensable items in it might be required for your comfort is an attitude that is a result of a luxurious lifestyle.

Anything you own can be taken from you, lost, broken, used up. The thinking that your survival depends on STUFF is flawed from the getgo. Yes, primative peoples carried "kits" when available, but those kits were composed of things they made from materials in their environment, and they well knew how to make more if the need should arise. Can you make a Bic lighter? Can you make a stainless swiss army knife or a big fixed blade?

Every item you carry is a crutch, an obsticle to your learning how to be as one with your environment. Vivi, you are right to start as a minimalist. That is where you will gain knowledge and experience which will stand in your favor in a true survival situation. Otherwise, you are a high tech camper without a clue as to how survive in comfort when your STUFF walks away.

Codger
 
I agree that having the practiced ability to improvise from natural materials found around us is an excellent way to train, but I'd much rather have trusted gear with me and sit around camp in the rain, dry and warm, perfecting my knapping, than getting drenched and having to scrounge the items needed to make the firedrill from my wet surroundings and then actually get a fire going using wet tinder and fuel.

True enough, we don't know how we will perform when wet and shivering unless we actually do it, but I wouldn't want to bet my life on my being able to manufacture a firedrill and get a fire blazing before I succumb to hypothermia.
 
Minimalist camping/outdoor adventure is great, but for my part I'm not leaving a modern fire making device (be it a lighter or mag block) at home. If you get in a "playing for keeps" situation, I see nothing to be gained by denying one's self a more effective and reliable method of fire making than a bow drill. If you can get by without using the modern equipment, I've got all the respect in the world for you. Just leave it in your pocket, not in a drawer at home.
 
I think learning primitive skills is highly enjoyable and worthwhile pursuit. However, don't confuse bushcraft skills with wilderness survival skills.

There is some overlap, but primitive skills should not be depended upon (as in plan on using them instead of proper preparationand planning) to get yourself out of a difficult situation.

Remember, survival situations often start with injury or severe weather conditions. You don't want to "scrounge around" under such circumstances when a well though out daypack could solve the problem.

Then someone will say, "What if you don't have your daypack?" The surest way to become separated from your actual, real-world survival gear is to leave it at home because, "Hey, it's only a dayhike and I know my primitive stuff really well." Mac
 
Codger_64 said:
Yes, primative peoples carried "kits" when available, but those kits were composed of things they made from materials in their environment, and they well knew how to make more if the need should arise. Can you make a Bic lighter? Can you make a stainless swiss army knife or a big fixed blade?
Click to expand...

Few natives using machetes or parangs could make them "in the field", yet they quickly adopted them when they were introduced. Advance your abilities sure, however letting this handicap your preperation seems unwise. I see the situation as Pict has described. Part of preperation includes being able to adapt to missing gear as much as possible.

-Cliff
 
The idea of injury actually came up recently. I've badly sprained and bruised my wrist on my dominant side twice in the past few weeks so I had the oppurtunity to try and be ambidextrous. I used my knife left handed for a while, when I went for walks I'd try making wood shavings without using my right arm at all, things like that. I think that'd be a useful thing to practice all the time really.

I agree with you guys in that enjoying yourself and being prepared are pretty essential. However, it seems the less gear you actually need to depend on, the better off you'll be in a real survival situation. If you know how to survive with no gear at all, but prefer to bring it on planned outings, then that's perfectly acceptable in my eyes. What doesn't sit well with me is the people bringing 1, 000$ + worth of gear who'd be up a creek without a paddle so to speak if they lost even half of it.

New technology is constantly coming out and its enjoyable to see how it can be utilized for people like us....but going back to my original point I think the more you can adapt using natural materials alone, the better chance you're giving yourself for survival.

Gear can be lost, broken, confiscated etc. Knowledge and experience seem to be a lot more versatile.
 
I will have to agree with the majority here. I too like to go light, but I will not sacrifice modern equipment when it comes to survival, maybe comfort. I have spent nights out in the Bandlands in ND during bow season with just a fanny pack, poncho, poncho liner but always had two to three modern means to start a fire.
 
Well, there's a lot to be said about your "minimalist outdoor" point of view.

Of course it is highly laudable, if you persevere in that direction you will certainly learn a lot. At least it's interesting to try it.

But that said, as they say: "safety first". Even if you don't plan to use it take a backpack with all the stuff to recover in case it goes wrong (medkit, two reliable fire means, some sort of waterproof/windproof shelter, some signal gear, some energy candy...). Have it around, use it only if things go wrong.

Sure that's some dead weight but that might save your a$$, and it can be pretty light (see things like ultra-light backpacking)

Second is it possible to live in nature the primitive way.
Of course, they are, or have been in past, people, or "natives", who could live with little or close to nothing.
That said:
* most of these people did this for a living
* learning it took them most of their time
not the kind of training too many modern men can afford nowadays (do you?).

plus:
* for the ones who did it, many "tragically" failed to do it
* "fate" played a much larger role in those times or in those cultures

Third don't be too "arrogant", learn the skill slowly, one after the other. To use a (stupid) extreme example, running out your cabin naked in Northern Canada during winter won't make you a northern survival badass, it will make you a frozen dumba$$.

Fourth, the "no equipment" thing is a bit irrealistic. Reminds a Ray Mears (yep again) episode among some african bushmen (sorry I can't remember the country). They took him for a 3 days hike to get to the area where they harvest "the wood that works great for bow drills", they always carry with them. Point is leaving from the land is quite relative even for those people.
 
Another aspect to consider is that many of the primitive outdoor skills are specific to the environment. What works well in the Maine woods won't help much in the Arizona desert, the Oregon cascades or the Florida everglades.

Some basic skills are useful anywhere, and tops is the ability to adapt to your circumstances.

The reason I always carry a basic kit is because I spent four days in the boonies with only what I had in my pockets. Yes, my "primitive skills" got me where I needed to go, and I ate every day, and had a bit of fire every night (those thanks in part to the SAK and Bic I had in my pockets), but I have no desire to repeat the experience.

And a basic kit, adapted to your local environment, does not need to weigh much at all. Be prepared!
 
Ravaillic, it actually is my intention to continue developing my skills to the point where I can walk into a patch of wilderness with little else on me but a knife, construct a fairly permanent dwelling and live off nature from there. I've always admired cultures that did that, such as Native Americans, and instead of simply being a little boy with dreams I'd rather be a man with a life he is truely happy with. I think living like that would bring me more pleasure and fulfillment than the standard modern lifestyles we have.

I guess where I'm coming from isn't so much don't bring gear...but I think the over-reliance on gear is dangerous. If you have your own cordage, your own firestarters, your own food.....well, I think it's important to know how to replace these things with natural methods. I think for most everything you bring you should know a way to utilize the technology through nature so to speak. So something like, you have a flare gun, but you're experienced with signal fires. You bring food but can track and hunt. You bring a lighter but can use friction methods. That sort of thing. Having the gear itself isn't so bad, like bringing a tarp greatly reduces time needed to construct water resiliant shelter...but if the tarp is your only option due to ignorance, I think you're putting yourself in a bad position. So I guess that's more how Is hould be explaining myself rather than trying to tell everyone to not carry gear with them period.
 
Hi there if i may add some information. The ice man ( the one the found in the alps, not the mafia hit man in jail ) When they found him he had a small kit on him which included flint for arrow heads that were mostly completed tinder to start a fire and a fire drill. The way i see it if that man had a choice he would carry the latest and the best modern life can offer him. Yes im sure you knew how to make things from what was around him. But if givin a choice carry as much as you can to help you acomplish what you need.

Sasha
 
sasha said:
Hi there if i may add some information. The ice man ( the one the found in the alps, not the mafia hit man in jail ) When they found him he had a small kit on him which included flint for arrow heads that were mostly completed tinder to start a fire and a fire drill. The way i see it if that man had a choice he would carry the latest and the best modern life can offer him. Yes im sure you knew how to make things from what was around him. But if givin a choice carry as much as you can to help you acomplish what you need.

Sasha
Click to expand...


Mmhmm, I remember reading about that. I fI recall there were also some pre-made threads and specific herbs for their medicinal properties.

Like you were saying, the ice man probably knew how to re-construct all these things from materials he could find at hand. That's more or less the approach I'm advocating.

When I look at that thread with the story about two people who got lost in California and survived on a dead man's gear, that worries me. It worries me because most the responses seemed to be along the lines of "Be prepared, go somewhere without gear and you're asking for trouble." Rather than suggesting these two people shirk off their ignorance and replace it with an abundance of wildlife, plant and woodworking knowledge.

You can give a complete amatuer a complete gear setupi and he can thrive much less than an experienced outdoorsman carrying a fraction of what the first is. I'd know, I'm a complete novice and I do terribly either way. :)
 
The "minimalist" approach smacks a little bit of a disenchanted yuppie passtime. At which point do you stop? After all, your vibram-soled boots are a product of modern technology. What about your clothes? And why are you taking a modern knife with you? What's wrong with making your own from a piece of hard quartz?

Also, I am curious, do you take a first-aid kit with you? Cause if you do, that's cheating big time. Antibiotic ointment doesn't grow in the forest. Make your own.

Okay, you get my point. ;)

Edited for spelling errors
 
"Be prepared, go somewhere without gear and you're asking for trouble."

I whole heartedly agree with this statement. IMO primitive and bushcraft skills are a back-up to solid preparation.

That preparation doesn't have to be big, or bulky, or heavy. It also doesn't have to be used if you are really intent on practicing primitive skills.

If you are going into a wilderness area, and there is always the possibility you will get stuck there, you need to be able to handle the worst that environment can dish out the time of year you are there.

To depend on primitive skills intentionally, unless under controlled circumstances is asking for trouble. Here's the test, make a friction fire and a debris shelter with a broken knee, fading light, falling temps, and intermittent drizzle.

Now try the same with a well though out daypack, poncho, poncho liner, bivy, canteen, Bic & tinder, LED light, whistle, cordage.

One of these guys is going to survive the night and the other will be severely hypothermic if not at ambient temp by morning.

Primitive skills are only survival skills if you can make them work under the worst conditions of whatever environment you happen to be in.

"Carrying all that gear" is about 10 lbs max, hardly noticed on the back. Most of the time when you see people hauling large 70lb packs into the wilds it is because they refuse to sacrifice comfort and not due to concerns about survival. Basic, "keep body and soul together" kit is not that much stuff. Mac
 
Loading onself down with gadgetry without which you cease to exist as a functioning being smaks far worse of yuppieism. (is that a word? Well, it is now! See how we can make things from nothing already?)

The entire point of minimalism is that everything you need is out there if you know how to find the materials and make it. Otherwise, you are just playacting out of your winnebago, without the benefit of the camer and support crew to film your folly. And without a high dollar paycheck as a reward.

When you can go naked (literally or figuratively... your choice) into the wilds and come out at a later date more fit, healthy, with the tools to survive which you made, then you know wilderness survival. And afterward, any modern gadget you find in your pocket or pack when confronted with an actual situation is a plus. Though you have the knowledge that your life does not depend on the gadget.

Yes, I can feed and clothe myself, find or construct shelter, make more tools than I can carry, find medicines, and find my way, all without the aid of thousands of dollars worth of play prettys. The "Ice Man" mentioned did just that until he caught an arrow in his back.

There is nothing wrong with staking your survival on things, until you find your things gone. Then you had better have the practiced knowledge to get by on made and found things.
 
Either way, you are staking your survival on things, whether homemade or store bought. Even though he knew how to, the ice man didn't make what he needed everytime he went walking, he carried a kit. Most of it homemade no doubt, but he carried gear all the same. His tools reflected bow and arrow making, sewing, knapping, grinding, edged tools and a firedrill, bowdrill, flint or whatever he carried for fire and they were all state of the art when he was walking this Earth.

Yep, he could replace what he lost (except his axe), with what he found around him. LNote that he carried a pack of sorts, a bow and quiver of arrows. He would have also carried a stave of dry wood in case he lost or broke his bow. Otherwise, he would have had to find a dried piece of wood that may or may not make a good bow.

Making what you need with natural materials is great, but being able to do what you need to do now, when you need it, is being prepared.
 
Good on you Vivi.

Attitude and knowledge is, generally speaking, heaps more valuable than hardware.

Why are we interested in survival skills?? I don't really know why I am almost obsessed with the idea and have been since I was a kid decades ago. I love the outdoors. I guess I have also read books about tricky situations, and have entertained fears about foreign invasions, world wars, earth pole shifts, Y2K etc etc.

While it is good to be wise and practical, I think it is highly undesirable to be governed by fear. Many of us humans seem to have a natural inclination to have something to worry about. And I guess a lot of us imagine that one day we could be on our own without the support of society and a civilized business infrastructure.... so we like to be equipped for the possibility.

But over my relatively long life so far I have seen deadlines for disasters come and go without anything significantly bad happening. But when the earth poles didn't shift on the predicted date, or when Y2K didn't happen the general human conciousness found some other future event to worry about.

I believe that the the highest power is Love, and that good wins in the end... but that is another story. Meanwhile I still love mucking about in the wilderness.

I go hunting and fishing. I set a few traps. I have a game camera that I set up occasionally.

I have made bows and arrows from local trees, and I have hunted successfully with them. I also own a few modern firearms... and when I am really serious about getting an animal I will take a gun. But I reckon that bow shooting has made me a better rifle shot... and probably a better hunter. I started off having a variety of tools to make my bows with... but nowadays I like to use just a hatchet to make a bow (although if I were in a hurry I would use my disk grinder with a coarse emery paper disk). But using just a hatchet for the whole operation is very satisfying. This is minimalism I suppose.

I can light a fire with a flint (or quartz) and a home-made steel - or a bow drill - and I enjoy playing with these things and showing them to other people. But if I would never be without man-made firemaking tools.

I have forged my own hatchet heads and knife blades in a charcoal fire made in a pit in the ground. This too was creative, fun and satisfying. But over the years I have owned dozens of cutting tools that I did not make... and I still have a few of these.

Interestingly, the knife I use the most nowadays is a simple, cheap, plastic-handled, one-hand-opening lockback knife of the Maxam brand. It is just ideal for odd jobs... especially when I am setting traps. I just love the one-hand opening feature because my other hand is generally doing something else. I have sheath knives, but I find that the folder is much more convenient to quickly get out of my pocket and quick and convenient to put back into my pocket. The knife cost me about US$1.39 from CKB products. I bought a few of them on line and had them sent to New Zealand, but I am still using the first one I got out of the box maybe six months or more ago and it is still working well. It has had a heap of use cutting trap materials and in skinning and cutting up animals.

Just lately I have decided that I own too much stuff.... so I have given things away, sold things on on-line auctions, and I have discarded some junk. When you have less you can be tidier.... and less cluttered.

So to me, often, "less is more". I applaud anybody who chooses to enjoy the outdoors in a simple manner.... or who wishes to get better in utilizing primitive technology. I think that in doing things like this we develop a better appreciation of what life is all about... and if we can share our enthusiasm and knowledge with others (especially young folks) we will be helping to make the world a better place.

And sometimes, I feel, our focus on our fears and owning "things" takes away our focus from what is important in life.... like serious thinking, for instance.

Best wishes.... Coote.
 
I heard some guy say that if you rub your 2 index fingers together real fast you can start a fire. Is that minimal or what?
 
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