Minimum Bear Handgun Caliber?

i have a cabin near Jackson Hole Wy. and all i carry when fishing is an H&k .45acp. we dont see a lot of grizz but they are around for sure. the couple of times we have seen blacks, we were lucky and got away with firing a shot near them but not at them and they turned and ran away. we carry spray and keep it in the cabin also. but have never had to use it. for the last two years theres been a black bear come up to the cabins deck and knock over the bird feeders and leave some scat. but no real trouble with him so farr. i would sure like to be able to hit a grizz 6 out of 12 times with my .45 than maybe once with a wheel gun. however i do know its a small cal for bear in general! ive read that an FMJ is what you should carry for deaper penetration, so thats what i use in a 230 gr.
 
Heavy bullet for deep penetration is a key. I have a Glock 20 and ammo from Double Tap ammo 200 and 230 grain. Loaded at this level, 15 10mm rounds have about 11,100 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle. A 500 S&W magnum at 2500 ft lbs per round has 12,500 ft lbs at the muzzle.

My personal opinion on why you hear about someone shooting a bear so many times when charged is 2 fold. 1. shoot till the bear is dead and not moving is what the preponderance of advice is, so people empty their gun. 2. A charging bear would be rather hair raising and people probably get too excited and just shoot till they can't anymore.

The llink shows a pic from Easton Bowhunting TV. You can see more footage of it on the Outdoor Channel.
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=038095#000010

This would be a scary situation.
 
ohmyheckinslc said:
I had an old Zoology teacher who said the .45 acp was the minimum to carry in bear country, and he had a story about a guy who dropped a bear with his .45 in self defense, at one point.
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I wouldn't consider anything in the 400 ft/lbs of energy class (9mm/.40/.45) as adequate. Lotta .45niks belief lofty tails about their ACP's, but it is a slow cartridge that doesn't penetrate very well. It's roughly equivalent to a heavy 9mm ball. 45 Long Colt is slower and has less energy, but with a modern firearm you can load it pretty hot, close to 454 Casull range. 45 Colt and 45/70 were bear medicine a long time on the frontier but there's much more powerful stuff on the market now.

Really, you should step up from 9mm/40/45. 357 magnum (580-600 me) is better, but if it were me I'd want at least a 41 magnum (780 me) or hot 10mm (740 me-- Kimber? Glock 20? Definitely do not use the slow 10mm lite rounds that replicate 40) and would really prefer a 44 magnum (800 me with the heavy bullets). If you could find one and would prefer a 1911 style pistol, there are a few .45 win magnums (825 me) out there. The Kimber 10mm would be my choice though since 45 Win Mag ammo isn't easy to find.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, Glock 20 in 10mm is heap good bear medicine. And it's lighter than any of the 41/44 mag revolvers. It's 15 round magazine would be comforting. A former Marine recon/police SWAT friend of mine carries exactly this for his fishing trips in Montana.

In any round, you are going to want it loaded very hot and with a heavy non-expanding bullet for penetration. +P or +P+ if its a 9mm/40/45. Handloading might be adviseable with your 45 ACP.

The other poster is correct, it is important not to get more handgun than you can handle. However, I suspect with a large bear or moose bearing down on you, you will not notice the recoil like you would on the range.
 
Have you read these books?

Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance by Stephen Herrero

Alaska Bear Tales by Larry Kaniut

Shooting Bears by John Pezzenti

You might find them helpful on the subject of handguns for bear protection, along with discussions of risks and consequences.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions so far. As I said, I do usually take a .44; it is the most powerful handgun I own. Weight is a consideration. I'm tempted by .45 simply because I'm a very good 1911 shooter and a mediocre wheel gun shooter. I can probably put 3 rounds of acp on target in the same time as one .44.
 
I have heard of 45 LC dropping them.
 
sorry to kinda hijack this thread, but is there a website or some sort of chart that has a comparison of all the rifle and handgun rounds. I'm relatively new to firearms and all this talk of ACP and other stuff has me confused :o
 
The reality is that no matter what gun you carry, you are likely going to need to shoot that beast more than one time, at least with a handgun. With that knowledge, the minimum gun to carry is the largest you can hit quickly with.

Lived in Alaska for 8 1/2 years and used to laugh at the individuals at the range with their 454 who took forever to aim and their followup shots were slower than a muzzleloader. Now granted they were at the range but I highly doubt it would have been much faster, or if it was faster the accurace wouldn't have been there. Because of that I carred a 44 magnum with some very stout loads. I could hit quickly and repeatedly with it. Could also hit shooting one handed, a likely scenario.

However in Alaska the 45/70 lever actions from Marlin and a good ol' 12 guage with slugs/buckshot were the most popular against the big bears up there.

Charles
 
I'm surprised that nobody has said it yet, so I will...
It depends if you're alone or not... if you're with a buddy, then all you really need is a .22lr... :)

On the other hand, I've an in-law who slaughters his cattle... he uses a .22lr (one shot, one kill) to the head. He says that even Bison are slaughtered with a .22mag shot. Are Grizzly skulls thicker than Bison? I'm not saying that you should venture into bear country with anything in a .22 (unless you've got a buddy with you), but I am saying that maybe you don't have to carry a desert eagle .50 with you, if you don't want to. One of my guns is a Beretta 92fs, which I am very comfortable with, and shoot pretty well. I've got a 20 round clip I picked up for it... What I'm trying to say is, if the bear keeps coming after 20 9mm holes have been punched in him, then...well...he's earned it... :)
 
ohmyheckinslc said:
One of my guns is a Beretta 92fs, which I am very comfortable with, and shoot pretty well. I've got a 20 round clip I picked up for it... What I'm trying to say is, if the bear keeps coming after 20 9mm holes have been punched in him, then...well...he's earned it... :)
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I'd rather knock him down with one shot from a .454 Casuall. Than 20 shots from a 9mm, with or without a friend.
 
What most people do not realize is that shooting a bear, esp. a brown/griz, is entirely different than almost any other animal. When their heart is racing, it beats about once per second. They are also very large and well muscled. Anything you choose to hit it with has to penetrate well, and needs to hit the central nervous system to stop it reliably. I knew a person that was shot 13 times w/ a 9mm, who then chased the guy down, beat him down, then drove himself to the ER. Do you think a 6-800lb brown bear cares about some tiny little holes poked in him? It is pretty much impossible for it to bleed out before it tears you up, regardless of how many holes it has in it. A rifle would work much better than a handgun, but most rifles also have their own drawbacks. The fact is, no matter what you are carrying, you do not want a brown bear to attack you. If a person is hunting them, that is a little different. If you are carrying much less than a .44 Mag, you probably do not want to shoot anything unless it has already started removing your ribs.

RedEdge. ACP is Auto Colt Pistol. There are a few, but typically people are referring to the .45 ACP. It is a relatively low powered big bore handgun cartridge. You can find some comparison info by seeing the online reloading sites. These will tell you how heavy a bullet a particular cartridge can throw, and how fast it can put it out there. The larger an animal gets, typically you want the heavier bullet weights for that particular bullet diameter.
 
A fella up here in Alaska carried his 45acp and used it in a bear charge (I believe it was a grizzly). Surprisingly he was not mauled and put almost all the rounds into the bears face, causing it to run away. I always carry my S&W 329PD cause it's super light, but I do not think it would kill a charging bear any better than a 45acp cause their heads are darn thick.
 
I carried a 4 inch S&W 57 .41 magnum on my Alaska hunt. It was a loaner as I didn't have a big bore handgun. I had it loaded with Buffalo Bore 230 grain Hard cast semi-wadcutters. The Buffalo Bore load puts the .41 into the mid range of the .44 magnum.

I plan to buy a gun to fill the holster I bought up there. I'll make it a 4 inch .44 magnum. The round is more versatile IMO and ammo availability is good.

The way it was explained to me is that the guns you carry are there to protect the other hunters in the party. If a Grizzly is going to eat you then the first sign of the attack will be a furry SUV with fish breath all over you. In which case your friends will be unloading whatever they have, rifles first. The handguns are to put mercy shots into you and the bear. A .45 ACP would work fine to put down a shredded hunter but it would be kind of cruel to the bear. :eek: Mac
 
44 mag. is all i carry for bear repellent.
it's a little dirty harry, and heavy, but after you own one you will be a lot safer in bear country.
me i like stainless steel and a long barrel.
and if you do a lot of target shooting you better learn to load.
i always joke that i shoot money out of mine.
 
Mac,

You should have a look at the Taurus website, look for the 444MULTI

444MULTI.jpg


They don't have a pict for the SS finish, but this is a nice revolver in 44 Mag. I like the SS finish on the Ti better than the Blue.

Anyway, I picked this one up as my backup while bowhunting, too many bowhunters are running into Grizzly while sneaking through the woods here. I have a Super Blackhawk in .44 Mag, and a couple of levers in 44 Mag, so I wanted to stay there.

Some of the nice things about this revolver, #1 is it is light, unlike the Super Blackhawk, it is light enough to carry (28oz). It is actually lighter than a lot of the auto's (1911, my Ruger in .40 S&W, etc). It is a double action, with a smooth pull and a crisp break in double or single. The grip they put on it tames it well, and is very comfortable to shoot (I have put 150-200 rnds through her in a sitting).

Anyway, may be a good one for you.

--Carl
 
i've heard of instances where 44 caliber handguns with the ti cylinder recoil so hard that the shells inside come uncased. in other words i bet that gun kicks like a sob.
 
Nope, it kicks, but I find it no harder to shoot than my Super Blackhawk in 44 Mag, and it weighs in at twice the weight.

The kick was my biggest worry when I purchased this revolver. Like I said, I have had the .44 Mag for a long time (got the Super Blackhawk about 20 years ago), so I was comfortable with the caliber. However, I wanted a small, powerful revolver as a backup while bow hunting (protection, and while hunting Elk & Deer with the bow, I can shoot bear and cougar with a pistol). With that in mind, I looked at these and decided that the Ti was a good fit (I looked all the way up to a S&W 500 snubby, but didn't like the weight). The pistols on my short list were the Ruger Alaskan, the S&W in 460 and 500, and the Ti S&W and the Ti Taurus.

I am very happy with this pistol, if you are used to shooting a 44 Mag, I don't think you will notice much of an increased kick. I have had 4 other people shoot this side by side with my Super Blackhawk, and the consensus is this one's felt recoil is the same or less, I attribute all of that to the grips.

To be honest, if the recoil was great enough that the shells came uncased, there is no way I could put 3-4 boxes of ammo through it in under 2 hrs.

Anyway, if you are looking for some power in a lighter package, this is one to look at, won't say it will fit you, but is worth a look.

--Carl
 
ohmyheckinslc said:
I'm surprised that nobody has said it yet, so I will...
It depends if you're alone or not... if you're with a buddy, then all you really need is a .22lr... :)

On the other hand, I've an in-law who slaughters his cattle... he uses a .22lr (one shot, one kill) to the head. He says that even Bison are slaughtered with a .22mag shot. Are Grizzly skulls thicker than Bison? I'm not saying that you should venture into bear country with anything in a .22 (unless you've got a buddy with you), but I am saying that maybe you don't have to carry a desert eagle .50 with you, if you don't want to. One of my guns is a Beretta 92fs, which I am very comfortable with, and shoot pretty well. I've got a 20 round clip I picked up for it... What I'm trying to say is, if the bear keeps coming after 20 9mm holes have been punched in him, then...well...he's earned it... :)
Click to expand...


If you're with a buddy, no need for the .22. Just a pair of sneakers, so you can run faster than him. Old joke.
 
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