Mint vs. Used Pricing

rprocter

BANNED
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
6,872
i'm sure this has been discussed but i cannot find the guidelines i am hoping for.
with reference to custom knives made by well established, highly sought after knifemakers: is there a percentage range by which selling price is reduced by a knife which has had light use with some resulting light scratches, vs. mint condition ?
what about used and lightly re-sharpened ?
assuming no mis-use; no problems with the knife at all.
most likely the knife would not be of interest to those "pure" collectors who collect only mint custom knives; but of interest to those who collect and occasionally use.
Tacticals and Hunters come to mind as knives most likely to get used.
or, is each knife a unique situation, so guidelines are not possible ?
thanks for any help ! roland
 
In my opinion, you have gone full circle from your question, to the answer you ended with - in my opinion each knife is a unique situation. Impossible to tell the degree of "used".
 
As mentioned, there are many considerations that will affect used vs. mint custom knife values.

• Degree or definition of used.

• Damage, abuse or alteration.

• Different maker's knife values may be affected differently by use.

• Different styles/types knives are affected differently by use.

• Collector preference: As use doesn't concern some collectors as they may pay 85% of mint. On the other end of the spectrum many purist will not pay anything for a less than mint custom knife.

• The rarity of some custom knives may affect their used vs. mint value.

• The age/vintage of some custom knives may affect their used vs. mint value.

Taking everything into consideration and if you had to come up with a percentage; it's my opinion a used but not damaged, abused or altered custom knife would probably average bringing around 60% of maker's new or mint condition value.

It would be interested to hear Dave Ellis, Dave Harvey, Bruce Voyles and Les’ opinions on this subject.
 
Last edited:
O.K. "lightly used" meaning you would have to look closely and may see a few superficial scratches or a minor scuff. nothing more. referring to knives like : Dozier, Krein, Snody, Hinderer, etc.
mint commands the best price which can usually be established by looking at recent past sales as these knives change hands frequently.
i need to sell some knives, lightly used. i have a good idea of a reasonable "mint" price, but do not know what is a fair asking price for "lightly used". is there a percentage reduction that in general can be applied, allowing for the fact that there will always be exceptions ?
roland
 
..... is there a percentage reduction that in general can be applied, allowing for the fact that there will always be exceptions ?
roland

You are not going to like this....

20% off makers new price for a highly desireable piece with minimal carry wear to 50% off for less desireable and more wear.

As a rule of thumb.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
O.K. "lightly used" meaning you would have to look closely and may see a few superficial scratches or a minor scuff. nothing more. referring to knives like : Dozier, Krein, Snody, Hinderer, etc.
mint commands the best price which can usually be established by looking at recent past sales as these knives change hands frequently.
i need to sell some knives, lightly used. i have a good idea of a reasonable "mint" price, but do not know what is a fair asking price for "lightly used". is there a percentage reduction that in general can be applied, allowing for the fact that there will always be exceptions ?
roland

As you describe "lightly used", I would put in the 10%-15% reduction range.

Another thing to consider in pricing knives for sale. I find in many cases collectors are willing to pay makers and dealers more for like condition knives than they will pay other collectors. Of course I'm not referring to the makers that are on fire who hold the drawings at shows and such.
 
Last edited:
You are not going to like this....

20% off makers new price for a highly desireable piece with minimal carry wear to 50% off for less desireable and more wear.
^^^ Yup.

Roland, you may 'ask' anything you wish and be fair. In the end what you will receive will clarify the true value. Be prepared to start dropping prices if there is no interest. That ain't fun, but it's real.

Frankly, as a 'collector' I have very little regard for a lightly-used piece. Either it's mint or it's a user.

Hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised. :)

All of this assumes quality photographs. People want to see what's up.

Coop
 
^^^ Yup.

Frankly, as a 'collector' I have very little regard for a lightly-used piece. Either it's mint or it's a user.



The one caveat to that is a trip to the maker for a refurb, Coop. Let's say all is needs is a buff and puff to be "like new"....would be worth it to me to have refurb done, if possible, IF I don't intend to use it.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
[/B]

The one caveat to that is a trip to the maker for a refurb, Coop. Let's say all is needs is a buff and puff to be "like new"....would be worth it to me to have refurb done, if possible, IF I don't intend to use it.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

I agree much more with this statement than any general statement about 20% to 50% off for carry use. There are way too many variables, but if you have a knife that can be brought back to real life with a buff and fluff, then it becomes pretty easy to answer - suddenly it's a mint knife.
 
^^^ Yup.

Roland, you may 'ask' anything you wish and be fair. In the end what you will receive will clarify the true value. Be prepared to start dropping prices if there is no interest. That ain't fun, but it's real.

Frankly, as a 'collector' I have very little regard for a lightly-used piece. Either it's mint or it's a user.

Hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised. :)

All of this assumes quality photographs. People want to see what's up.

Coop

I don't subscribe to the "an item is worth what someone will pay for it" school of thought.

Items (knives) are bought and sold for more and less than they are worth everyday.
If for lack of knowledge, a collector under prices a knife by $300 and it sells instantly that doesn't IMO mean the knife is worth $300 less, it means the wise buyer got a good deal.

Poor marketing can result in items selling for less than they are "worth" just as good marketing can result in items selling for more than they are worth.
 
I agree much more with this statement than any general statement about 20% to 50% off for carry use. There are way too many variables, but if you have a knife that can be brought back to real life with a buff and fluff, then it becomes pretty easy to answer - suddenly it's a mint knife.

But the expense of the buff & fluff has to be considered to determine if it's cost effective. Not all makers will do it for free.

In some cases a buff & fluff could devalue a knife, especially if the maker is deceased and it has to be done by someone else.
 
But the expense of the buff & fluff has to be considered to determine if it's cost effective. Not all makers will do it for free.

In some cases a buff & fluff could devalue a knife, especially if the maker is deceased and it has to be done by someone else.

When I am talking buff and fluff, I am talking in terms like Jay Hendrickson doing a Moran - or a similar kind of situation - not one where anything is de-valued in the process. And cost is always a factor, though my experience is that anything that needs only a buff and fluff to make it "right" is worth the cost.
 
When I am talking buff and fluff, I am talking in terms like Jay Hendrickson doing a Moran - or a similar kind of situation - not one where anything is de-valued in the process. And cost is always a factor, though my experience is that anything that needs only a buff and fluff to make it "right" is worth the cost.

Actually Bob, I believe you were correct in your first post.
It all depends on the particular knife and the circumstances surrounding the knife.
There's just no "one fits all" answer to used vs. mint values.
 
well thank you. a lot of helpful information here. kevin i can see from your list that proper evaluation requires a lot of experience.
a BF member contacted me asking if i wanted to sell my XM-18. i don't "want to" but must sell some to cover legal bills. my idea of a good deal is one in which both parties feel pleased.
my question is not just for this situation, but is something i have wondered about as i try out newly acquired customs; "what is this brief foray actually costing me".
and with most knives i do not expect to make a profit. it's more like renting a knife. purchase price - selling price = rent for the enjoyment of the knife's company.
roland
 
The good thing on a lot handmade knives is light rust specking is not much of a problem on a lot of the stock removal made knives--because they tend to use stainless steel.

Inherent in owning handforged knives, which tend to lean to carbon steels, especially Damascus, is a high degree of maintenance is required. Keep in mind the Damascus pattern comes from putting acid on the blade to bring out the pattern.

I've found that the seller/owner pays no attention if one of his snowflakes develops a spot or two--and in turn they feel it should not effect value. The potential buyer, on the other hand, finds that single spot horrific.

In my experience a light speck or two is going to reduce the aftermarket value 20-35%.

The price is in direct proportion to the amount of damage, but that "drive it around the block once" depreciation for almost any significant storage flaw is going to be 20-35%, maybe more. What's more the pool of potential buyers is greatly reduced because of those who will accept nothing less than a flawless snowflake. For God's sake, it is a knife after all. They're designed and made to be tough, so wrapping them in velvet and having a hysterical fit at a speck of rust is an eye roller for most dealers.

Not only will knives speck, I've seen brass guards and pommels pit, I've seen bolsters get scratched from sliding around in knife boxes and display cases, I've seen handles crack from being stored in dry climates, and stainless spot in salt water climates. Owners of handmade knives have to accept that over a period of time there is a certain amount of damage that will accumulate to your collection. You'll drop one sometime, you'll let a couple clank together accidentally.

Knives that have been used should only be "restored" by the original maker. Period. If at all. Watch a couple of "Antique Roadshows" and see the benefit of making a good old item shiny. It tanks the price.

Sharpened and used handmade knives prices do not drop off as high as comparable vintage knives. (One whetting on a vintage knife will take a 35-50% drop off mint price). Handmades will drop 20% for a single whetting. 10% blade wear on an average quality/average demand maker will drop it to 35-40% off of aftermarket value.

But if you have a mint old Ruana they were so crudely sharpened that it is nearly impossible to tell if the sharping was done by Rudy or a later owner who was planning on using it. So in Ruana's the tolerance level of use is very high.

Older vintage handmades have a higher tolerance factor. Morseths, Loveless, Morans due to scarcity and popularity will maintain a higher percentage of value. Randalls are in a world of their own.

One has to consider the following:Excluding a very few superstars, In general for a great number of handmade knives there is a drop off in price between buying from the maker and buying in the aftermarket. Wishing it was not so is not dealing in reality. Keep in mind the percentages drop-off's I've mentioned above are for real AFTERMARKET values, not the price the maker charged, and certainly not some figure pulled out of the air by an optimistic owner.

So if you take an average demand maker, and take the drop off in price for the aftermarket, and then sharpen it because you want to use it, you have often turned an average demand knife into little more than a "user". User handmades start at around $50-60 for a wood handled drop point. Folders are a little higher.

If you chose to collect used handmades, and if doesn't bother you if a knife has a crack in the handle, a spot here and there, a light sharpening--then one can build a very nice collection of well known makers at economical prices. And if you collect sharpened handmades you can take them out and use them correctly and not see additional drop off in prices. But in this instance I'm talking about buying such knives after someone else had taken the depreciation/damage hit from original value.

But more important than the value of a used knife versus a mint knife by the same maker is to understand the appreciation value of a used in-demand handmade knife will be slow to non-existent.

However if you are collecting for investment there is only one condition--that is mint. You get a spot on a knife, get rid of it at what the market price will bear.
 
If a knife has been used, I would consider a reduction in value in the range of 25-50 per cent to be the likely result. Yes, of course there are a great many variables at play as has been mentioned, but it is worthwhile to keep this issue in mind as the "cost" of actually using your knives.

Probably your biggest resale impairment comes not from a reduction in value, but from a significantly diminished pool of prospective buyers.

Roger
 
If a knife has been used, I would consider a reduction in value in the range of 25-50 per cent to be the likely result. Yes, of course there are a great many variables at play as has been mentioned, but it is worthwhile to keep this issue in mind as the "cost" of actually using your knives.

Probably your biggest resale impairment comes not from a reduction in value, but from a significantly diminished pool of prospective buyers.

Roger

Roger - My mantra for years has been about "a significantly diminished pool of prospective buyers". I have used almost the same words to try and explain to some collectors why resale value is not what they think it should be.

In this case, we are talking about used knives. Sometimes, as now, it's the condition of the marketplace. But very often, the "pool of prospective buyers" just isn't out there because of the collector's own choice in knives.

Whenever I think in terms of resale value of a knife, it fundamentally comes back to a function of the "potential population of buyers".
 
The good thing on a lot handmade knives is light rust specking is not much of a problem on a lot of the stock removal made knives--because they tend to use stainless steel.

Inherent in owning handforged knives, which tend to lean to carbon steels, especially Damascus, is a high degree of maintenance is required. Keep in mind the Damascus pattern comes from putting acid on the blade to bring out the pattern.

I've found that the seller/owner pays no attention if one of his snowflakes develops a spot or two--and in turn they feel it should not effect value. The potential buyer, on the other hand, finds that single spot horrific.

In my experience a light speck or two is going to reduce the aftermarket value 20-35%.

The price is in direct proportion to the amount of damage, but that "drive it around the block once" depreciation for almost any significant storage flaw is going to be 20-35%, maybe more. What's more the pool of potential buyers is greatly reduced because of those who will accept nothing less than a flawless snowflake. For God's sake, it is a knife after all. They're designed and made to be tough, so wrapping them in velvet and having a hysterical fit at a speck of rust is an eye roller for most dealers.

Not only will knives speck, I've seen brass guards and pommels pit, I've seen bolsters get scratched from sliding around in knife boxes and display cases, I've seen handles crack from being stored in dry climates, and stainless spot in salt water climates. Owners of handmade knives have to accept that over a period of time there is a certain amount of damage that will accumulate to your collection. You'll drop one sometime, you'll let a couple clank together accidentally.

Knives that have been used should only be "restored" by the original maker. Period. If at all. Watch a couple of "Antique Roadshows" and see the benefit of making a good old item shiny. It tanks the price.

Sharpened and used handmade knives prices do not drop off as high as comparable vintage knives. (One whetting on a vintage knife will take a 35-50% drop off mint price). Handmades will drop 20% for a single whetting. 10% blade wear on an average quality/average demand maker will drop it to 35-40% off of aftermarket value.

But if you have a mint old Ruana they were so crudely sharpened that it is nearly impossible to tell if the sharping was done by Rudy or a later owner who was planning on using it. So in Ruana's the tolerance level of use is very high.

Older vintage handmades have a higher tolerance factor. Morseths, Loveless, Morans due to scarcity and popularity will maintain a higher percentage of value. Randalls are in a world of their own.

One has to consider the following:Excluding a very few superstars, In general for a great number of handmade knives there is a drop off in price between buying from the maker and buying in the aftermarket. Wishing it was not so is not dealing in reality. Keep in mind the percentages drop-off's I've mentioned above are for real AFTERMARKET values, not the price the maker charged, and certainly not some figure pulled out of the air by an optimistic owner.

So if you take an average demand maker, and take the drop off in price for the aftermarket, and then sharpen it because you want to use it, you have often turned an average demand knife into little more than a "user". User handmades start at around $50-60 for a wood handled drop point. Folders are a little higher.

If you chose to collect used handmades, and if doesn't bother you if a knife has a crack in the handle, a spot here and there, a light sharpening--then one can build a very nice collection of well known makers at economical prices. And if you collect sharpened handmades you can take them out and use them correctly and not see additional drop off in prices. But in this instance I'm talking about buying such knives after someone else had taken the depreciation/damage hit from original value.

But more important than the value of a used knife versus a mint knife by the same maker is to understand the appreciation value of a used in-demand handmade knife will be slow to non-existent.

However if you are collecting for investment there is only one condition--that is mint. You get a spot on a knife, get rid of it at what the market price will bear.

Thanks Bruce, I was hoping you would come along to shed some light.

I would just like to defend damascus a little as I wouldn't want anyone leaving this thread expecting older damascus blades to inherently have rust spots. I just sold a 10 year old damascus Fisk Sendero a couple days ago which I'm sure the happy new owner will back me up in saying it's absolutely perfect from blade tip to butt. I have a Fisk damascus boot knife that's 15 years old, again it's as it left Jerry's shop. A drop of a suitable oil applied every 4-6 weeks or Ren wax (on some damascus) is all it takes to keep spots from forming.
 
Thanks, Bruce (and others),

A LOT of clarifications on board. :thumbup:

Coop
 
Roger - My mantra for years has been about "a significantly diminished pool of prospective buyers". I have used almost the same words to try and explain to some collectors why resale value is not what they think it should be.

In this case, we are talking about used knives. Sometimes, as now, it's the condition of the marketplace. But very often, the "pool of prospective buyers" just isn't out there because of the collector's own choice in knives.

Whenever I think in terms of resale value of a knife, it fundamentally comes back to a function of the "potential population of buyers".

I agree with both you and Roger in that the "potential pool of buyers" is very important if investment is part of your collecting strategy. That's why getting your knives "out there" to be seen by as many potential buyers as possible is so important. You can attract buyers from this limited pool from all over the world just by something as simple as having well set up photo site for about $25 a year. Not even to mention if you want to take if to the next step of constructing a well done collector website. Have these buyers come to you.
You can even get offers on pieces that you didn't even have for sale. It's good to have contacts for if/when you do decide to sell a piece. I just sold one of my Winkler/Shook displays yesterday that I had never even consider selling.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top