Mint vs. Used Pricing

[Keith Montgomery]

The only knives I would consider purchasing used would be ones I planned on using. The price I would pay would depend on the maker and condition, but slight wear on a user wouldn't cause me much concern. I would definitely still expect to pay 20 to 25% less than the new price, and maybe more.

 

[rprocter]

i want to thank all who replied. such detailed answers from Bruce and other 'experts', has added a lot to my understanding of the secondary market, and i'm sure is helpful to others as well. without BF and it's knowledgeable, helpful members, my enjoyment of knife collecting would be greatly reduced.
perhaps it is my relative immaturity as a collector, or perhaps it is based on personality type, but i do not get the "mint thing". my collection is varied as i buy what attracts me with a goal of having a good representation of U.S.A. and European knives of the last app. 150 years. my "investment" so far is well into 6 figures; lots of Customs, and even more production; some "mint", box, etc., others used. my criteria is that knife must be of superior construction and function flawlessly. having been used or the presence of "blemishes" does not affect my enjoyment or pride of ownership.
but that really is one most admirable aspects of knife collecting: there are many 'styles' and variations, all valid, as personal satisfaction is the over-riding factor.
roland

 

[Kohai999]

perhaps it is my relative immaturity as a collector, or perhaps it is based on personality type, but i do not get the "mint thing". my collection is varied as i buy what attracts me with a goal of having a good representation of U.S.A. and European knives of the last app. 150 years. my "investment" so far is well into 6 figures; lots of Customs, and even more production; some "mint", box, etc., others used.

Roland,

That is a fair chunk of change to have tied up into a hobby.

You don't have to "get the mint thing", or any of the prevailing factors that affect the secondary market for that matter....it may not matter to you in the slightest.

That said, IF you go to sell knives and wish to maximize your potential profit, this knowledge and understanding is irreplaceable. You have to know the market, and your targeted buyers....thus the big disconnect between being a knife buyer and a knife seller.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[rprocter]

Quote STeven: "That is a fair chunk of change to have tied up into a hobby."
yes it is a rather addictive hobby. my only concern is for my 4 children who will be left with a relatively valuable knife collection and have no idea of what to do with it, nor the time it would take to be able to sell the knives for close to a fair price.
have others considered this and come up with a good plan ?
roland

 

[Kevin Jones]

Quote STeven: "That is a fair chunk of change to have tied up into a hobby."
yes it is a rather addictive hobby. my only concern is for my 4 children who will be left with a relatively valuable knife collection and have no idea of what to do with it, nor the time it would take to be able to sell the knives for close to a fair price.
have others considered this and come up with a good plan ?
roland

Roland, I have created a collection database to store and display knife information such as, photos, maker information, knife specifications and materials, date & from whom purchased, price paid, current value, registration numbers, perspective buyers, price sold and to whom sold, ROI for individual knives, total collection cost, total collection value, ROI for entire collection. This simple spreadsheet can prove to be a very valuable tool for managing your customs collection for you or your heirs especially in the event fire, theft or death.

I make a Microsoft Excel template of this spreadsheet available to collectors who attend my collecting seminars. Sound like with the quantity of knives you have it would be a lengthy process loading all your knife information into the template.

 

[on_the_edge]

Sound like with the quantity of knives you have it would be a lengthy process loading all your knife information into the template.

Yet doing just that is a far better alternative than not, unless of course one simply does not care. Roland, you might not need to be as exhaustive as Kevin, but you do need to do something with what you have, both for your own peace of mind as well as that of your hiers.

 

[betzner]

I agree with both you and Roger in that the "potential pool of buyers" is very important if investment is part of your collecting strategy. That's why getting your knives "out there" to be seen by as many potential buyers as possible is so important. You can attract buyers from this limited pool from all over the world just by something as simple as having well set up photo site for about $25 a year. Not even to mention if you want to take if to the next step of constructing a well done collector website. Have these buyers come to you.
You can even get offers on pieces that you didn't even have for sale. It's good to have contacts for if/when you do decide to sell a piece. I just sold one of my Winkler/Shook displays yesterday that I had never even consider selling.

Kevin - I have procrastinated for so, so long about putting up a site that I hadn't given it a thought for several years. Never really saw the need, since I seemed to always be able to sell something whenever I wanted, to people I knew. But NOW, it really makes sense to have some kind of site. I may give it some more thought............

 

[jjtjr]

Roland, I have created a collection database to store and display knife information such as, photos, maker information, knife specifications and materials, date & from whom purchased, price paid, current value, registration numbers, perspective buyers, price sold and to whom sold, ROI for individual knives, total collection cost, total collection value, ROI for entire collection. This simple spreadsheet can prove to be a very valuable tool for managing your customs collection for you or your heirs especially in the event fire, theft or death.
I make a Microsoft Excel template of this spreadsheet available to collectors who attend my collecting seminars. Sound like with the quantity of knives you have it would be a lengthy process loading all your knife information into the template

I have seen Kevin's Excel template and it is great. I keep track of my knives on a Word document by maker, mainly because I'm not proficient on Excel. I also keep a loose-leaf binder with 8 1/2" by 11 1/2" photos of all of my custom knives.

I include a description of the knife, date bought & sold, cost and price if sold. If the collector can't keep track of what he has, good luck to a relative or heir trying to figure it out.

A.G. Russell sells a Knife Record Book on his website which I used before I had a computer. It is cheap and easy to use.

A website is a great idea and easy to set up on a Photo Hosting site.

As far as percentages off for "lightly used" I agree that there is no "rule". The main thing is the knife, it's condition and who made it.

Jim Treacy

 

[notdos]

To answer your question directly,,no. First of all there is no such thing as a "mint" condition knife. New knives come direct from a maker, a makers table or from a dealer who acquired the knife from the maker. No pre-owned knife can be "mint".
Next,,used is used whether light or not from a value stand point. The best thing you can do to enhance the value of a used knife is send it to the maker for refurb then list the knife for sale with an accurate description of its condition and the fact that it has been refurbed. Hope this helps,

Phillip

 

[Kevin Jones]

To answer your question directly,,no. First of all there is no such thing as a "mint" condition knife. New knives come direct from a maker, a makers table or from a dealer who acquired the knife from the maker. No pre-owned knife can be "mint".
Next,,used is used whether light or not from a value stand point. The best thing you can do to enhance the value of a used knife is send it to the maker for refurb then list the knife for sale with an accurate description of its condition and the fact that it has been refurbed. Hope this helps,

Phillip

Hi Phillip.
Sounds from your post you must have found an absolute definition for the term "Mint Condition". If so please share it with us, as I have never been able to fine one. I have always considered it synonymous with terms such as "as new" or "perfect condition".

I believe the term originally comes from a coin mint. Meaning a coin is in as good condition as when it was minted or created.

Coin collectors typically refer to a coin which has never been used as "un-circulated" which is considered the best condition.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Coin collectors typically refer to a coin which has never been used as "un-circulated" which is considered the best condition.

This is off topic, but there are actually two ratings for coins that are above uncirculated. One is brilliant uncirculated. The other is when a coin is specially made for collectors, and that is proof.

Mint is supposed to mean, exactly as it came from the mint, or in our case, exactly as it came from the maker.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Keith,

Brilliant Unciruclated: Although struck with normal dies, a coin described as BU is almost proof like in appearance, being perfectly sharp, absolutely flawless and showing no signs of wear or bag marks.

A proof coin (which starts at MS 60) refers to a special way the coin was struck. Usually having more strikings per coin. As well the dies are changed out much more often. Giving the obverse and reverse a greater "depth" of field.

Mint is exactly as Kevin said...as the coin would be from the Mint.

Mint State (MS) Starts at MS 60 and goes to MS 70.

There are a couple different companies who will "grade" your coins and encapsulate them with the information shown on the plastic container.

Hi my name is Les Robertson...and I am a numismatist. LOL

Actually going to a coin show tomorrow.

 

[Jon Brand]

I haven't read both pages- but wanna add that in my personal opinion a knife is mint if your eye cannot see any blemishes. If I can see a small table scratch in a bolster, then the knife isn't mint to me. When selling a knife, every little flaw should be listed so that you don't upset your customer.

 

[LarryM]

To answer your question directly,,no. First of all there is no such thing as a "mint" condition knife. New knives come direct from a maker, a makers table or from a dealer who acquired the knife from the maker. No pre-owned knife can be "mint".
Next,,used is used whether light or not from a value stand point. The best thing you can do to enhance the value of a used knife is send it to the maker for refurb then list the knife for sale with an accurate description of its condition and the fact that it has been refurbed. Hope this helps,

Phillip

Phillip, if you buy a knife from a maker isn't it preowned? So by you definition your knives can't be mint either. Larry

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Phillip:

No pre-owned knife can be "mint".

What?

I have to agree with Larry, your definition makes no sense.

Of course pre-owned knives can be in mint condition.

To use the numismatist reference, that would be like saying knives bought directly from the US Mint...Cannot be mint? Of course they are mint. Matter of fact (again using the coin reference with regards to Mint State (MS) coins as well as other objects can be mint and have had several owners. They are sold as being in mint condition.

If Betzner received one of his exceptional Warenski Daggers directly from Buster. Handled it with white cloves, placed in a highly padded case, brought it home and stored it in a safe with a temperature and humidity controlled environment for 10 years.

He takes that knife out to sell it....it is MINT!

 

[Kevin Jones]

This is off topic, but there are actually two ratings for coins that are above uncirculated. One is brilliant uncirculated. The other is when a coin is specially made for collectors, and that is proof.

Mint is supposed to mean, exactly as it came from the mint, or in our case, exactly as it came from the maker.

Thanks Keith for the clearification. All I know about collectable coins is what I picked up from my dad when I was a kid. I'm sure a lot has changed since then.

 

[betzner]

Hi Phillip:



What?

I have to agree with Larry, your definition makes no sense.

Of course pre-owned knives can be in mint condition.

To use the numismatist reference, that would be like saying knives bought directly from the US Mint...Cannot be mint? Of course they are mint. Matter of fact (again using the coin reference with regards to Mint State (MS) coins as well as other objects can be mint and have had several owners. They are sold as being in mint condition.

If Betzner received one of his exceptional Warenski Daggers directly from Buster. Handled it with white cloves, placed in a highly padded case, brought it home and stored it in a safe with a temperature and humidity controlled environment for 10 years.

He takes that knife out to sell it....it is MINT!

Les-

Seems like you and I are the only ones who recognize 11 separate Mint State conditions - MS60 through MS70. I am surprised that so few here seem to know much more than mint or proof.

Good Warenski reference. After a sale just yesterday, I can now say that all the Warenskis I own are mint. Sure am glad he wasn't a forger but rather a stainless kinda guy!

Bob

 

[Kevin Jones]

Hi Phillip:

What?

I have to agree with Larry, your definition makes no sense.

Of course pre-owned knives can be in mint condition.

To use the numismatist reference, that would be like saying knives bought directly from the US Mint...Cannot be mint? Of course they are mint. Matter of fact (again using the coin reference with regards to Mint State (MS) coins as well as other objects can be mint and have had several owners. They are sold as being in mint condition.

If Betzner received one of his exceptional Warenski Daggers directly from Buster. Handled it with white cloves, placed in a highly padded case, brought it home and stored it in a safe with a temperature and humidity controlled environment for 10 years.

He takes that knife out to sell it....it is MINT!

I agree as well, thus my round about reply right after Phillip's post.

Has anyone ever received a new knife from the maker that was excellent other than being dirty? Like the damascus blade being nasty and/or having polishing compound residue in the nooks and crannies of the guard and ferrule? Perhaps a little adhesive seep? When you have to get out the cloths, lacquer thinner and needle point Q-tips for a good cleaning?

If so, this would be a case when a knife is more "mint" after leaving the maker.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Les-

Seems like you and I are the only ones who recognize 11 separate Mint State conditions - MS60 through MS70. I am surprised that so few here seem to know much more than mint or proof.

Good Warenski reference. After a sale just yesterday, I can now say that all the Warenskis I own are mint. Sure am glad he wasn't a forger but rather a stainless kinda guy!

Bob

Bob, I might not know MS60-MS70, but you can bet I know mint when I see it.

 

[Les Robertson]

Just to clarify some confusion.

There are 11 grades for Mint State: MS60 through MS70

There are Proof Coins as Keith pointed out and I elaborated on.

Brilliant Uncirculated Means that the coin described is in mint, (although not necessarily perfect) condition with its original mint luster. BU is in fact a Factor for grading...not a Mint State:

MS-70 (Mint state perfect uncirculated) - is as perfect as a coin gets, considered "perfect uncirculated". All coins MS-60 and higher are Mint State coins. It is worth noting that Proof is not a grade, but a type of coin.

MS/BU (Mint State/Brilliant Uncirculated) - some coins have a BU added to the uncirculated MS noting their brilliant shiny and luster. This designation does not have a numeric rating as it can be anywhere between MS-65-MS-70.

MS-60 (Mint State Basal) - coins are uncirculated but typically have bag marks, scratches and dings from being produced and shipped in large mints bags.

different coins have different standards applied to them. for example a coin minted in a year know for light strikes may be graded higher in the same condition as the same coin from a different year with heavier strikes.

Due to the subjective grading of many collectors third party grading was established about 18 years ago.

Ok, this was definitely off topic. Just wanted to clarify the whole MS Thing.