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Mission 10" MPK-S received
- Thread starter bald1
- Start date
Raph,
My understanding is that rust developed under hard chrome plating during Navy testing. I'm also to understand that the molecular bonding of some of these other coating processess to include AlTiNi obviates the problem. But, as with any steel, the exposed edge and any penetrations in the coatings or plating will open the door to rust.
I may just be somewhat of a fanatic with my weapons, but I've yet to have a knife or gun develop rust of any kind. I clean 'em up properly after use and store them correctly. My feeling is that if you expect a tool to function properly, you best do your part and keep them clean and lubricated. Stainless steels have been hyped for the modern man who is sometimes too preoccupied to do right by his tools... that or just plain lazy
!
------------------
-=[Bob]=-
I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!
My understanding is that rust developed under hard chrome plating during Navy testing. I'm also to understand that the molecular bonding of some of these other coating processess to include AlTiNi obviates the problem. But, as with any steel, the exposed edge and any penetrations in the coatings or plating will open the door to rust.
I may just be somewhat of a fanatic with my weapons, but I've yet to have a knife or gun develop rust of any kind. I clean 'em up properly after use and store them correctly. My feeling is that if you expect a tool to function properly, you best do your part and keep them clean and lubricated. Stainless steels have been hyped for the modern man who is sometimes too preoccupied to do right by his tools... that or just plain lazy
------------------
-=[Bob]=-
I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!
Cliff Stamp
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Here is Bob's shot of the 12" plain edge uncoated MPK :
Very nice looking knife.
Sid :
Sid, when I asked Rick at Mission about the A2 version he made some very interesting statements about the abilities (weaknesses) of that version of the MPK. You can see similar comments that he made here :
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001832.html
Specifically I am referring to :
I was impressed with Rick for saying this as usually a maker/dealer will give you the impression that the knife can do just about anything. I was very interested in getting an A2 MPK (12") until I read this. Where would you put the Mission A2 MPK in regards to strength against say Reeves Project, the MD ATAK, the Busse Steel Heart or even say the Cold Steel Recon Scout? What about the Ti MPK, same question? I have been running the idea of getting a Ti version for a few weeks now but the low edge holding has kept me away.
-Cliff
Very nice looking knife.
Sid :
Sid, when I asked Rick at Mission about the A2 version he made some very interesting statements about the abilities (weaknesses) of that version of the MPK. You can see similar comments that he made here :
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001832.html
Specifically I am referring to :
I was impressed with Rick for saying this as usually a maker/dealer will give you the impression that the knife can do just about anything. I was very interested in getting an A2 MPK (12") until I read this. Where would you put the Mission A2 MPK in regards to strength against say Reeves Project, the MD ATAK, the Busse Steel Heart or even say the Cold Steel Recon Scout? What about the Ti MPK, same question? I have been running the idea of getting a Ti version for a few weeks now but the low edge holding has kept me away.
-Cliff
Cliff,
I previously knew that Rick was not recommending his A2 knives for chopping or prying. My take on this is pretty simple. They are indeed capable of being used for chopping or prying but since there is no replacement guarantee, the manufacturer isn't warranting abuse. That way the ELU can't bitch if he/she pushes the envelope and finds a way to actually break one. Frankly, mine seems ever bit as strong as a MadDog
!
Here's the quote from Rick's post:
Steel knives - we are augmenting our authentic and proven designs
now into steel -primarily A2. These
knives will be considerably less
expensive than the titanium knives,
and provide a great deal of quality
and value. We will be placing some disclaimers on the steel knives
though. We do not recommend the steel knives for demining, scuba
diving, prying, chopping, etc.
Hardened steel is much less ductile
and durable than hardened titanium
meaning hardened steel is much more
likely to break, chip, or snap
when used in an extereme application.
Tohelp circumvent this, we will be
lowering the hardness a little. Based
on the testing and analysis we have completed, A2 performs best as a knife
blade at RC56-57. That is where we are targeting our hardness. The 10"
MPK-A2 Sid is talking about is the new 10-3/8" overall length MPK. Should
be a knife in great demand.
Note the caveats are for "extreme applications" and that he is taking pains to
contrast A2 steel performance against titanium. Context means quite a bit here.
Sid,
If I'm not mistaken that picture of the 12 incher you posted is a Titanium knife as the sheath is different for the A2 series. The pix Cliff posted for me (thanks Cliff!) is definately an A2 12 inch MPKS.
-=[Bob]=-
PS Just found where Rick has posted pix in the General Forum of all 3 of the MPKS series. The 10 3/8" is the middle knife.
[This message has been edited by bald1 (edited 03 May 1999).]
I previously knew that Rick was not recommending his A2 knives for chopping or prying. My take on this is pretty simple. They are indeed capable of being used for chopping or prying but since there is no replacement guarantee, the manufacturer isn't warranting abuse. That way the ELU can't bitch if he/she pushes the envelope and finds a way to actually break one. Frankly, mine seems ever bit as strong as a MadDog
Here's the quote from Rick's post:
Steel knives - we are augmenting our authentic and proven designs
now into steel -primarily A2. These
knives will be considerably less
expensive than the titanium knives,
and provide a great deal of quality
and value. We will be placing some disclaimers on the steel knives
though. We do not recommend the steel knives for demining, scuba
diving, prying, chopping, etc.
Hardened steel is much less ductile
and durable than hardened titanium
meaning hardened steel is much more
likely to break, chip, or snap
when used in an extereme application.
Tohelp circumvent this, we will be
lowering the hardness a little. Based
on the testing and analysis we have completed, A2 performs best as a knife
blade at RC56-57. That is where we are targeting our hardness. The 10"
MPK-A2 Sid is talking about is the new 10-3/8" overall length MPK. Should
be a knife in great demand.
Note the caveats are for "extreme applications" and that he is taking pains to
contrast A2 steel performance against titanium. Context means quite a bit here.
Sid,
If I'm not mistaken that picture of the 12 incher you posted is a Titanium knife as the sheath is different for the A2 series. The pix Cliff posted for me (thanks Cliff!) is definately an A2 12 inch MPKS.
-=[Bob]=-
PS Just found where Rick has posted pix in the General Forum of all 3 of the MPKS series. The 10 3/8" is the middle knife.
[This message has been edited by bald1 (edited 03 May 1999).]
Cliff Stamp
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Bob, I can understand the reason for their concerns and many people have similar warrenties like Reeve, Mad Dod etc., I think the only reason I was as surprised as I was by Mission is that Rick was so upfront about the knives. Regarding heavier use I would be interested in anything you did in that area.
-Cliff
[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 04 May 1999).]
-Cliff
[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 04 May 1999).]
I just wanted to drop in hit the high points, it's pretty late here and it has been a rough couple of weeks.
The color tone of the pic I posted comes pretty close to matching the production A-2 models in my safe for what its worth. The "SteelCoat" has a finish/sheen that matches the picture pretty close with the exposed A-2 edge having a nice shiny appearance to my tired eyes tonight.
With regards to chopping, prying, etc., either knife will take a heck of a lot abuse at a human hand. I don't have all the numbers in the top of my head but, unless I am mistaken the A-2 knives have a higher ultimate yield strength. If my military customers can take a Chris Reeve Shadow IV which is a smaller blade and split firewood in Central America with it (after using other wood, rocks or, whatever they could find to pound it through) and not break that knife, I would not worry about using the A-2 MPK in a similar manner as it is a stronger blade. I will note that I am not strong enough to seriously threaten one of the CRK One Piece knives with my bare hands so, there is little I would not try with an A-2 MPK.
I would also note that for people who want a little more chopping action out of their knife, the A-2 version will have more blade weight (maybe 2 ounces guessing from my hand weight judged comparison - a postal scale would be handy right now). I will also note that I seriously like A-2 steel over most other steels when used in appropriate applications so, that my taint my thoughts some with regards to the A-2 MPKs. That's not to say other steels aren't very good as well but, my limited use has found A-2 to work very well for me personally.
This weekend I will try to compose a more coherent comparison and some general thoughts with regards to the Mission MPKs, specifically Ti vs. A-2.
Until then, Stay Sharp!
Sid
The color tone of the pic I posted comes pretty close to matching the production A-2 models in my safe for what its worth. The "SteelCoat" has a finish/sheen that matches the picture pretty close with the exposed A-2 edge having a nice shiny appearance to my tired eyes tonight.
With regards to chopping, prying, etc., either knife will take a heck of a lot abuse at a human hand. I don't have all the numbers in the top of my head but, unless I am mistaken the A-2 knives have a higher ultimate yield strength. If my military customers can take a Chris Reeve Shadow IV which is a smaller blade and split firewood in Central America with it (after using other wood, rocks or, whatever they could find to pound it through) and not break that knife, I would not worry about using the A-2 MPK in a similar manner as it is a stronger blade. I will note that I am not strong enough to seriously threaten one of the CRK One Piece knives with my bare hands so, there is little I would not try with an A-2 MPK.
I would also note that for people who want a little more chopping action out of their knife, the A-2 version will have more blade weight (maybe 2 ounces guessing from my hand weight judged comparison - a postal scale would be handy right now). I will also note that I seriously like A-2 steel over most other steels when used in appropriate applications so, that my taint my thoughts some with regards to the A-2 MPKs. That's not to say other steels aren't very good as well but, my limited use has found A-2 to work very well for me personally.
This weekend I will try to compose a more coherent comparison and some general thoughts with regards to the Mission MPKs, specifically Ti vs. A-2.
Until then, Stay Sharp!
Sid
Cliff, Sid, et al:
I still haven't had a chance to really wring out my MPKS A2 but I can say that the more I use it the more impressed I am. This is a rugged beefy strong knife that I have no concerns about damaging. It is not big enough to compete for chopping duties with my Ang Khola, BK&T Brute, or even a CS Trailmaster, but like Sid points out, it can be used creatively to handle wood spliting tasks. I have punched it through some automotive steel without problems and figure it'll easily handle a 55 gallon drum... the opportunity simply hasn't arisen.
Now to be perfectly candid, were a similar design available in Talonite, I'd jump ship. But this A2 is no slouch....
!
------------------
-=[Bob]=-
I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!
I still haven't had a chance to really wring out my MPKS A2 but I can say that the more I use it the more impressed I am. This is a rugged beefy strong knife that I have no concerns about damaging. It is not big enough to compete for chopping duties with my Ang Khola, BK&T Brute, or even a CS Trailmaster, but like Sid points out, it can be used creatively to handle wood spliting tasks. I have punched it through some automotive steel without problems and figure it'll easily handle a 55 gallon drum... the opportunity simply hasn't arisen.
Now to be perfectly candid, were a similar design available in Talonite, I'd jump ship. But this A2 is no slouch....
------------------
-=[Bob]=-
I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!
Cliff Stamp
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Sid :
I would like to know where you (and Rick) see the cuttoff level for the A2 and would tell someone to get the Ti versions in terms of durability. I realize you this has been commented on before but it is one of the things I keep coming back to. Does Mission rate the A2 versions on similar levels with other often rated durable knives like the Project, Trailmaster, Battle Mistress, ATAK and such?
Has anyone done any actual cutting tests on the Ti and A2 versions? I realize that you would have to touch up the Ti blade a bit more, but what kind of performance can you get out of it. By the way Sid, as I noted to Rick I would be interested in a larger Ti version :
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002330.html
I would be willing to spring for a prototype as long as the price was not much of a jump over the 12" version. As a really simple minded approach why not just stretch out the current knife. You would end up with something fairly blade heavy - which is exactly what I would be looking for in a 10" heavy duty blade.
-Cliff
[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 12 July 1999).]
I would like to know where you (and Rick) see the cuttoff level for the A2 and would tell someone to get the Ti versions in terms of durability. I realize you this has been commented on before but it is one of the things I keep coming back to. Does Mission rate the A2 versions on similar levels with other often rated durable knives like the Project, Trailmaster, Battle Mistress, ATAK and such?
Has anyone done any actual cutting tests on the Ti and A2 versions? I realize that you would have to touch up the Ti blade a bit more, but what kind of performance can you get out of it. By the way Sid, as I noted to Rick I would be interested in a larger Ti version :
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002330.html
I would be willing to spring for a prototype as long as the price was not much of a jump over the 12" version. As a really simple minded approach why not just stretch out the current knife. You would end up with something fairly blade heavy - which is exactly what I would be looking for in a 10" heavy duty blade.
-Cliff
[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 12 July 1999).]
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Sid, as always thanks for the kind words...
I have just finishied the drawings for the 15" MPK (approx. dimen. 10" blade, 5" handle).
We will be cutting about 30 or so as pre-productions, and Sid will get the first ones to sell.
I am pretty impressed with A2, and I think it was the right choice for our steel knives. The coating is aluminum titanium nitride, and, from what we have seen, is the most durable coating that is currently available. Since the 12" steel MPK is a large knife and the owners can put a lot of stress/abuse on it - chopping, prying, etc. we have decided to harden it to 56RC. That way, it will still retain a very good edge, but more importantly, will have a little more durability - i.e., not be as prone to chipping, snapping, or breaking as if it was 62RC.
One of the many people we interviewed in our materials marketing analysis was J. Busse. He is really a great person and an honor to be able to call him a friend. He uses A2 and makes his knives more on the durable side also. I would say that his A2 and our A2 would perform similar. After all, they are the same metals, heat treated to about the same hardness.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally think the MPK is a beautiful knife
Sincerely,
Rick
I have just finishied the drawings for the 15" MPK (approx. dimen. 10" blade, 5" handle).
We will be cutting about 30 or so as pre-productions, and Sid will get the first ones to sell.
I am pretty impressed with A2, and I think it was the right choice for our steel knives. The coating is aluminum titanium nitride, and, from what we have seen, is the most durable coating that is currently available. Since the 12" steel MPK is a large knife and the owners can put a lot of stress/abuse on it - chopping, prying, etc. we have decided to harden it to 56RC. That way, it will still retain a very good edge, but more importantly, will have a little more durability - i.e., not be as prone to chipping, snapping, or breaking as if it was 62RC.
One of the many people we interviewed in our materials marketing analysis was J. Busse. He is really a great person and an honor to be able to call him a friend. He uses A2 and makes his knives more on the durable side also. I would say that his A2 and our A2 would perform similar. After all, they are the same metals, heat treated to about the same hardness.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally think the MPK is a beautiful knife
Sincerely,
Rick
Collin,
Per my discussion with John, the 15" models will be A-2 steel without a false edge. Final details are still being worked but, these are expected to come with Steelcoat without serrations.
Price and availability TBD. I would expect these to follow the release of the 10" models but, I don't control what happens so, things are subject to change. If I know what you want, exactly, it makes it easier to push that part of the system along, after all, we aim to please
I hope this helps.
Sid
Per my discussion with John, the 15" models will be A-2 steel without a false edge. Final details are still being worked but, these are expected to come with Steelcoat without serrations.
Price and availability TBD. I would expect these to follow the release of the 10" models but, I don't control what happens so, things are subject to change. If I know what you want, exactly, it makes it easier to push that part of the system along, after all, we aim to please
I hope this helps.
Sid
Cliff Stamp
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Rick :
[Jerry Busse]
If that is the case Rick, that you think your knives are even close to Busse's in regards to durability I am surprised that you are warning the customers about chopping / prying etc., Busse certainly does not.
-Cliff
[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 13 May 1999).]
[Jerry Busse]
If that is the case Rick, that you think your knives are even close to Busse's in regards to durability I am surprised that you are warning the customers about chopping / prying etc., Busse certainly does not.
-Cliff
[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 13 May 1999).]
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In fact, Busse seemed to be practically daring people to break his knives, back when his knives were A-2. His ads might as well have read, "go ahead, you pansy, try to break it", for all the subtlety he has
Well heat-treated A-2 on a .25"-spine knife should be easily tough enough to do some chopping and prying with. I'm also really surprised -- and nervous -- about Rick's warnings in this regard. No one else who makes these bowie/military-style A-2 blades seems to worry about their toughness. I'm hoping Rick is over-reacting in his warnings. Other than that, those are some fine-looking knives!
Well heat-treated A-2 on a .25"-spine knife should be easily tough enough to do some chopping and prying with. I'm also really surprised -- and nervous -- about Rick's warnings in this regard. No one else who makes these bowie/military-style A-2 blades seems to worry about their toughness. I'm hoping Rick is over-reacting in his warnings. Other than that, those are some fine-looking knives!
Cliff Stamp
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I am glad some besides me see's it as a little odd. This disclaimer is the only thing stopping me asking Sid to reserve a 15" MPK.
-Cliff
-Cliff
Mr. Post,
I've been trying to decide whether to get a Shadow or 12in MPK from you but a 15in one would have to take the cake. It would be m first choice of blades from you.
I have only two concerns. First of all how much of an increase in price are we talking and what exactly does the Mission warranty for these knives say.
thanks and take care
collin
I've been trying to decide whether to get a Shadow or 12in MPK from you but a 15in one would have to take the cake. It would be m first choice of blades from you.
I have only two concerns. First of all how much of an increase in price are we talking and what exactly does the Mission warranty for these knives say.
thanks and take care
collin
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Joe and all,
We like to be on the safe side and tell the customer what could possibly happen, not sugar coat it (like the Dog) and state something to the fact that you will "never break my steel knife". We have customers that told us they HAVE (allegedly) broken the "unbreakable" Dog knives - so nothing is taken for granted.
All I am saying is that hardened steel, no matter who makes it, is more likely to break or snap (than titanium is) when shocked (via chopping) or when lateral stresses are applied to this hardened steel. Hardened steel has a very low percent elongation and ceramic has even less. How many times have you heard of someone hitting a ham bone with their Kyocera ceramic kitchen knife and breaking the blade. How many have seen a steel knife break when someone drops it on the floor. I have seen both happen.
I know the performance of titanium. With over 3,000 MPK-Ti in the US military and NATO, not one have I heard of that has been broken.
Steel, on the other hand, is far more likely to break than titanium knives. That's all I meant by the comments.
These steel MPKs should be every bit as robust and durable as Busse's and MadDog's and we are currently working on a warranty policy. For now, under normal knife usage, you should not have any trouble with the MPK Steel handling all you can "throw at it".
Let me share with you a true story...Back in the Nov 1994 issue of Blade magazine, our good friend Kim Breed performed many tests with our MPK-Ti that did not get into print due to his one page "Spec Sheet" limitation. Kim never shared with anyone that he built his own custom 440C steel "MPK" to see how the titanium would perform against his cutome steel version. There is a picture of a seasoned oak log in the article that he was able to chop half way thru with the titanium. What do you think actually happended to his 440C knife??? Guesses anyone???
.
.
.
Well, the first time his hardened 440C knife got stuck in the log, he gave it a little twist to loosen it up. He did pull it out fairly easily because his 440C steel blade had broken in half!!
A second test was performed chopping through barbed wire that was imbedded in an old tree stump. A friend of Kim's had a Wayne Goddard custom forged knife that was suppost to have passed all of the tests that the Knifemakers Guild could throw at it. Well, I guess one test they didn't throw at it was cutting thru barbed wire, because guess which blade broke in half? The Wayne Goddard. The MPK that Kim completed all of the tests with was MPK S/N 004. I saw the MPK knife after the tests and it looked brand new.
All I am saying is that I have seen too many steel knives break, broken, and damaged beyond repair when used in extreme conditions.
Having seen many broken steel blades and listening to customers horror stories of many more broken steel blades, it is a wonder why anyone would give an unconditional guarantee on their steel knife???
Comments???
Rick
We like to be on the safe side and tell the customer what could possibly happen, not sugar coat it (like the Dog) and state something to the fact that you will "never break my steel knife". We have customers that told us they HAVE (allegedly) broken the "unbreakable" Dog knives - so nothing is taken for granted.
All I am saying is that hardened steel, no matter who makes it, is more likely to break or snap (than titanium is) when shocked (via chopping) or when lateral stresses are applied to this hardened steel. Hardened steel has a very low percent elongation and ceramic has even less. How many times have you heard of someone hitting a ham bone with their Kyocera ceramic kitchen knife and breaking the blade. How many have seen a steel knife break when someone drops it on the floor. I have seen both happen.
I know the performance of titanium. With over 3,000 MPK-Ti in the US military and NATO, not one have I heard of that has been broken.
Steel, on the other hand, is far more likely to break than titanium knives. That's all I meant by the comments.
These steel MPKs should be every bit as robust and durable as Busse's and MadDog's and we are currently working on a warranty policy. For now, under normal knife usage, you should not have any trouble with the MPK Steel handling all you can "throw at it".
Let me share with you a true story...Back in the Nov 1994 issue of Blade magazine, our good friend Kim Breed performed many tests with our MPK-Ti that did not get into print due to his one page "Spec Sheet" limitation. Kim never shared with anyone that he built his own custom 440C steel "MPK" to see how the titanium would perform against his cutome steel version. There is a picture of a seasoned oak log in the article that he was able to chop half way thru with the titanium. What do you think actually happended to his 440C knife??? Guesses anyone???
.
.
.
Well, the first time his hardened 440C knife got stuck in the log, he gave it a little twist to loosen it up. He did pull it out fairly easily because his 440C steel blade had broken in half!!
A second test was performed chopping through barbed wire that was imbedded in an old tree stump. A friend of Kim's had a Wayne Goddard custom forged knife that was suppost to have passed all of the tests that the Knifemakers Guild could throw at it. Well, I guess one test they didn't throw at it was cutting thru barbed wire, because guess which blade broke in half? The Wayne Goddard. The MPK that Kim completed all of the tests with was MPK S/N 004. I saw the MPK knife after the tests and it looked brand new.
All I am saying is that I have seen too many steel knives break, broken, and damaged beyond repair when used in extreme conditions.
Having seen many broken steel blades and listening to customers horror stories of many more broken steel blades, it is a wonder why anyone would give an unconditional guarantee on their steel knife???
Comments???
Rick
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Rick --
Thanks for your lengthy reply. I was hoping you'd clarify by saying that your A-2 was as tough as anyone's, but just suffered in comparison to titanium. Which is what it sounds like you're saying.
One thing about steel knives we should point out. Steel has been used in edge chopping tools for very many years, and has done a pretty good job. Steel can and does make a perfectly good material for chopping tools. A military-style big knife will probably be harder and have a weaker profile than a specialized chopping tool like an axe, but nevertheless, I'm convinced that a well-done steel knife can handle hard chopping. Maybe not as tough as titanium, but tough *enough* to do the job. There are knives made with a bad batch of steel or having had a bad heat treat that will fail, but well-made a big knife like what you're making should be able to chop chop chop!
I'll leave it to Cliff to comment further, he's our champion hard-chopping tester. If I read his previous comments right, I think he also is convinced that a knife this size should be able to handle the rigors of testing no sweat.
Anyway, kudos for printing what you feel is true ... maybe with some proper testing we can convince you that your knives can handle chopping!
Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
Thanks for your lengthy reply. I was hoping you'd clarify by saying that your A-2 was as tough as anyone's, but just suffered in comparison to titanium. Which is what it sounds like you're saying.
One thing about steel knives we should point out. Steel has been used in edge chopping tools for very many years, and has done a pretty good job. Steel can and does make a perfectly good material for chopping tools. A military-style big knife will probably be harder and have a weaker profile than a specialized chopping tool like an axe, but nevertheless, I'm convinced that a well-done steel knife can handle hard chopping. Maybe not as tough as titanium, but tough *enough* to do the job. There are knives made with a bad batch of steel or having had a bad heat treat that will fail, but well-made a big knife like what you're making should be able to chop chop chop!
I'll leave it to Cliff to comment further, he's our champion hard-chopping tester. If I read his previous comments right, I think he also is convinced that a knife this size should be able to handle the rigors of testing no sweat.
Anyway, kudos for printing what you feel is true ... maybe with some proper testing we can convince you that your knives can handle chopping!
Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
Cliff Stamp
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Rick, a well made steel knife is very difficult to break. Well made being the important part. You have to get the right cross sectional area, steel type and temper to match its uses. I do appreciate your honesty in regards to your steel knives and while I agree with you that there are a lot of over promoted knives out there, there are also a lot of decent ones.
I have no experience with Busse's knives but I will have shortly and will comment further when I do. I will note however that the new Busse basics should be out soon and they would be a direct threat to the steel MPK as they are both lower in price and claim a much higher performance.
Speaking of standards, I have recently had a look at a large 10" bowie from Ontario (1095) and it was easily strong enough for me. If you would guarantee that the large MPK in A2 is at least that strong I will order one.
I am very interested in the fact that you mention that the Ti MPK was able to cut through barbed wire and still looked new? What is the charpy value of your Ti? I would have assumed that since the Ti is rather soft it would have notched rather badly on hard materials. What am I overlooking here?
-Cliff
[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 17 May 1999).]
I have no experience with Busse's knives but I will have shortly and will comment further when I do. I will note however that the new Busse basics should be out soon and they would be a direct threat to the steel MPK as they are both lower in price and claim a much higher performance.
Speaking of standards, I have recently had a look at a large 10" bowie from Ontario (1095) and it was easily strong enough for me. If you would guarantee that the large MPK in A2 is at least that strong I will order one.
I am very interested in the fact that you mention that the Ti MPK was able to cut through barbed wire and still looked new? What is the charpy value of your Ti? I would have assumed that since the Ti is rather soft it would have notched rather badly on hard materials. What am I overlooking here?
-Cliff
[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 17 May 1999).]
In my May 3rd post I summarized:
Note the caveats are for "extreme applications" and that he is taking pains to
contrast A2 steel performance against titanium. Context means quite a bit here.
...this in trying to explain Rick's cmments about the A2 steel in Missions new MPKS line. I'm gratified to read his most recent post which more eloquently says the same thing...A2 isn't as tough as titanium... steel can break...titanium has yet to. Previously it looked like some misunderstood both Rick's original "caveats" and my attempt to explain them.
From my knothole the MPKS is as tough as anyone else's tool steel knife for I have absolutely no reason to believe that my MPKS suffers from any kind of comparitively inferior heat or other treatments in manufacture when viewed against the competition. It should perform as well as a Busse or MadDog in regular use.
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-=[Bob]=-
I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!
Note the caveats are for "extreme applications" and that he is taking pains to
contrast A2 steel performance against titanium. Context means quite a bit here.
...this in trying to explain Rick's cmments about the A2 steel in Missions new MPKS line. I'm gratified to read his most recent post which more eloquently says the same thing...A2 isn't as tough as titanium... steel can break...titanium has yet to. Previously it looked like some misunderstood both Rick's original "caveats" and my attempt to explain them.
From my knothole the MPKS is as tough as anyone else's tool steel knife for I have absolutely no reason to believe that my MPKS suffers from any kind of comparitively inferior heat or other treatments in manufacture when viewed against the competition. It should perform as well as a Busse or MadDog in regular use.
------------------
-=[Bob]=-
I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!