Mixing and Heat treating 5180

cotdt

cotdt

Joined
Oct 2, 2006
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How do you heat treat 5180? What proportions of the steels would you mix?
 
Sorry bro, could you elaborate a bit?

What is 5180? Also, what is the intended result of mixing it with something else?
 
69_knives said:
Sorry bro, could you elaborate a bit?

What is 5180? Also, what is the intended result of mixing it with something else?
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5180 is 5160 but eutectoid version with more carbon. I want to make some by mixing steels.
 
50 % 5160 and 50 % 52100 or 51100 will almost give you 5180 depending on what Mn and Cr you want. Are you talking about remelting or damascus ??
 
Hahaha, Sam.

Seriously though, Wouldn't you want to go higher than .80 C. The way I understand things, the .80 C will be tied up with iron/martensite won't really make any carbides with the chromium unless you have more than .83 C. In my very uneducated opinion, it won't be worth the trouble to custom make 5180. But you never know.
 
69_knives said:
Hahaha, Sam.

Seriously though, Wouldn't you want to go higher than .80 C. The way I understand things, the .80 C will be tied up with iron/martensite won't really make any carbides with the chromium unless you have more than .83 C. In my very uneducated opinion, it won't be worth the trouble to custom make 5180. But you never know.
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Carbides are bad for toughness! That's why S5 and 5160 is so tough. 5180 would be able to acheive very high hardness, though, which is what I want.
 
I think LARGE carbides and carbides in the wrong place are bad for toughness. Carbides in the right place are a good thing.
 
i was also of the thinking that the .60 carbon was more for the toughness and then to take it up would not help the steel at all for what it was meant for
maybe i need to reread a sticky by Kevin about the + and - of carbon steels being hyper or hypo e. steel
 
mete said:
50 % 5160 and 50 % 52100 or 51100 will almost give you 5180 depending on what Mn and Cr you want. Are you talking about remelting or damascus ??
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I guess I'll melt 50% 5160 and 50% 52100. This is going to be fun!

butcher_block said:
i was also of the thinking that the .60 carbon was more for the toughness and then to take it up would not help the steel at all for what it was meant for
maybe i need to reread a sticky by Kevin about the + and - of carbon steels being hyper or hypo e. steel
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Yeah I think it's 0.60% carbon for the 10xx steels. 1060 can reach within 1 point in max hardness of 1095, so maybe it's 1070, which would reach the same max hardness of 1095.

BTW, have you ever tried CPM 3V for straight razors?
 
I would have suggested 1095, just because it has very little of anything else, just a little Mn, if all you want is more carbon. 52100 also has higher percentage of chromium.
 
There has to be something close to 5180 as it is, without doing a custom melt. Have you thought about L6 or 8670M or digging for some Cr V steel like Case uses? Of course, if you just want to melt stuff, that up to you. For what its worth, I think 5180 would form some small carbides.
 
me2 said:
There has to be something close to 5180 as it is, without doing a custom melt. Have you thought about L6 or 8670M or digging for some Cr V steel like Case uses? Of course, if you just want to melt stuff, that up to you. For what its worth, I think 5180 would form some small carbides.
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What do you think about "1080+" from AKS? Its composition is:

C 0.80% - 0.85%
Cr 0.50% - 0.70%
Mn 0.35% - 0.70%
V 0.15% - 0.25%

It's not like 1080 at all but it's called that. I suppose it's kinda close to 5180.
 
cotdt said:
I

BTW, have you ever tried CPM 3V for straight razors?
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yes and it worked just fine but i am not sure if i will make more (there are 2 out there in use )
its just that i have now went to 52100 for my razors and like how it works
and i also have a good bit of it so i can make sure of the heat treat
 
I know you like to think outside the box and re-invent the wheel.....but the wheel has been in use a long time.

The reason there is no normal 5180 steel is that it would do nothing to make 5160 better. if you need a different set of steel requirements that 5160, use 52100, O-1, L-6 or whatever alloy suits the need. Melting 5160 and 52100 in a pot won't make 5180. What you will get is a nice paperweight. ( unless you have a foundry with custom equipment in your back yard). Blending steel is not the same as mixing paint colors.

If you truly can't live without extra carbon in your 5160, purchase 51100. It is a 1%C version of 5160. 52100 would be a lot easier to get, though....and would be as good or better.

BTW, hardness is normally not a real issue in most knives....toughness is. Many blades fail because they are too hard, few fail for being too tough. A piece of meat does not know Rc 58 from Rc60....and few knife makers could tell the difference without testing equipment.

Stacy
 
bladsmth said:
......BTW, hardness is normally not a real issue in most knives....toughness is. Many blades fail because they are too hard, few fail for being too tough. A piece of meat does not know Rc 58 from Rc60....and few knife makers could tell the difference without testing equipment.

Stacy
Click to expand...

Everybody needs to write that on their wall - today!
Truer words have never been spoken, stacy.
Thanks for saying them.
 
cotdt said:
What do you think about "1080+" from AKS? Its composition is:

C 0.80% - 0.85%
Cr 0.50% - 0.70%
Mn 0.35% - 0.70%
V 0.15% - 0.25%

It's not like 1080 at all but it's called that. I suppose it's kinda close to 5180.
Click to expand...

Saw blade steel and it's pretty good stuff. I believe Chuck came up with the
'1080+' designation.

If I were goin to have a batch of steel made (very likely), it would have;

.85-.95 C
.20-.25 V
.15 Cr
.15 Mn

:cool:
 
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