moderators going too far???

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HermanKnives

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something that really bothers me lately is moderators editing members posts and deleting them! is freedom of speech not allowed here in forums? is nobody allowed their own opinion anymore? i think this is WRONG!

i agree that name calling and outright lies and just badmouthing people is wrong too but many here need to grow up and not be so thin skinned. but if you all never noticed, the argumentive and heated threads get the most attention and get peoples feelings out! this is wrong? well the forums sure are boring without a few good heated threads in my opinion.

c'mon guys join the real world! if you cant take a little ribbing, then stay away. this aint mr. rogers neighborhood
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you want all warm and fuzzy try church chat
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james, you gonna edit this post too??
 
You'll not find a more rabid defender of free speech than me. However, I feel compelled to point out that on a privately owned, commercially-based site, there is no such thing as "free speech." There is only that content which the site owner allows. If the editorial policies of those who fund this site are offensive to you, the free market response is to withhold your participation -- and thus withhold a potential viewer of site-hosted advertisements.

Razor

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AKTI #A000845
And tomorrow when you wake up it will be worse.

 
I believe that the owners of this site have the right to do with it as they see fit. I can't complain if they want to lock a thread because they find it unacceptable. But I would prefer that no post be edited by anyone but the author. I have seen a few posts that had the original contents replaced with statements and comments of the moderator. I am certain that the original post was inflamatory or offensive to the moderator, but I would like to have the opportunity to make that call for myself. As this is a family rated forum, vulgar and profane content should be edited out. But the remainder of the post could be left intact and an explanation for the edit given. This is not a chastisement of the management of Bladeforums, but simply my viewpoint, and a request.

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Dave
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Attention: Some assembly may be required. Batteries not included.
 
We give people a lot of leeway here, because we work off the premise that if you treat people like they are adults, they will act like adults.

That being said, Freedom of Speech doesn't apply here - this site is private property and you agreed to follow our rules when you signed up.

It is our standing policy that moderators should not edit post's content unless absolutely neccessary; this is so that we have evidence to point to when we have to take action against a member. That being said, if a moderator chooses to delete a post, I'm probably going to back them up on it - it's a judgement call. I personally find James to be one of the most level headed people on the forum; so if he chooses to delete something, it probably deserved it.

If you can't discuss things rationally, and civilly, then don't discuss them at all. This isn't Mister Roger's Neighborhood, but at the same time we don't tolerate abusive behavior. Calling people names doesn't win your case for you - reason and logic will.

Moderation is needed all around, from everyone, in everything. Your rights end where other's begin, etc.

Good natured ribbing is one thing. Out and out flaming is another. I've seen far too many posts lately that are out of line and uncalled for.

Think of BladeForums.com as a friend's house. Be polite, act like a guest, and try to be friendly, even to that guy who ass you'd like to kick.

Save the fighting for when you are back in your own house.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here


[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 03-28-2000).]
 
I'd just like to state my support of the moderators here (at least those of the forums that I read on a regular basis, who I would actually have an opinion on). I've only seen one thread with posts editied by a moderator (http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum54/HTML/000089.html), and I think that was completely in tune with the 'vibe' of that thread.

This is a commercial site, and they could do anything they wanted, but I've seen them leave threads around which they could have deleted, and leave negative threads open a lot longer than I might, all for 'free-speech.'

Threads which consist of nothing but name-calling should be locked, since - if nothing else - they slow down the server for the rest of us. If some people want to have a rational, adult discussion in which they disagree, that's fine. However, flame-wars should be ended by the moderators. I mean, there's a reason I don't hang out with little kids, and I think the moderators need to be somewhat 'parental' and help some of the kids here to grow up.

Anyone who wants to engage in a flame war and act like five-year-olds can do so between each other in email, as has been suggested so many times. For the rest of us, when you disagree with someone, say so, say why, remember that (for the most part) no one here is intentionally making some statement just to annoy you, and try not to question each other's parentage (etc.), okay?

--just a few thoughts,
JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by e_utopia (edited 03-28-2000).]
 
Why delete the words. I rather we lock the thread and suspend the member that used offensive language. Maybe suspend them for a day or two at first, but ultimately ban them from the forums if they fail to behave. Deleting the words is too close to censorship. Besides, the offense has already been made, you might as well leave the words there so we can tell why the member was reprimanded.
 
Yep, some (not all) moderators seem to get on some kind of power trip. Certain ones go through spurts of locking/moving/editing/deleting threads. No, its not an across the board ban on any heated threads, it just depends on who is making the heated comments. Yep, its true, some can make darn near any comment they want, and its allowed to stand, certain others can say something and they get called on it everytime. When all esle fails, then the call of 'well, its a privately owned forum, so whatever we want the rules to be, thats that'. Selective enforcement of the rules in other words. I seem to remember Mike talking about periodic rotation of moderators, perhaps its time to consider it?

Richard
 
Can someone email me the specifics? I think I am at a loss here.

I believe we have a great group of moderators and Jim is about as high on my list as you can get without being me
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I have edited posts by only one individual myself and I will stand my ground with anyone who claims I should not have done it. TO MUCH FOUL LANGUAGE and the guy was just a plain *******. If you need another opinion he was a punk ass jerk as well
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As far as deleting posts; if a post is deleted by accident, as appears to be the case here, maybe a chill pill is in order
smile.gif


The reason for the success of this forum is similar to the reason for the success of this country. We do have freedoms but without rules or laws there would be no order and chaos would result. As Spark eluded to, we run a fairly lax atmosphere here for a reason, IT WORKS! But we do need to have structure.

To keep this site running smooth we must make decisions from time to time, that from initial appearance, may not seem fair or just heavy handed. Each moderator is given the freedom to make decisions based on outlines we provide. No one is perfect, and in the same situation not all will make the same decision.

The diversity here is also part of what makes this site work, much like our country. With diversity comes, well, diversity! So don't expect the same response from each person and if someone disagrees with you, just accept it and move on. Trying to force your opinions or beleifs down one's throat is not the answer. Being opinionated is OK in my book. I am very opinionated myself. But keep in mind they are YOUR opinions and not everyone will have the same opinion.


Here is a copy of the email we send the moderators so you can see what perameters they are operating under. If you feel there is something to add, let us know via email.

Being a good BladeForums.com Moderator, a checklist / guideline

INTRODUCTION
Thank you for becoming a part of the moderator team at BladeForums.com. With your help, we hope to better the knife industry as a whole, and provide the best, most accurate information to our members.

BladeForums.com operates on the laisse-faire system - we try to remain hands off and let the members take care of themselves and each other. As such, they tend to be self policing, and generally well behaved.

Unfortunately, that is not always the case. As such, as moderators it's your duty to try to keep things headed in the right direction.

A list of our rules can be found at this page: http://www.bladeforums.com/rules.html - go there and familiarize yourself with them. I'm sure that everyone agree's that they are not very hard to follow.

Frequently Asked Questions can be found here - http://www.bladeforums.com/faqs/index.html - these give a more detailed explanation of the in's and out's of the site - what we expect, what we do / don't want to see, things to do in Las Vegas, etc. It should answer some of the other questions you may have.

EVERY TEACHER WAS ONCE A STUDENT
Remember, no matter how inane the questions is, no matter how "stupid" it may seem, take the high road and answer it politely. Many of the people on the forums are from countries where English is not the primary or secondary language, so be patient. Also, be ready to admit when you were wrong, as we all still have something to learn.

As with everything else, feel free to lend your opinion, after all, it's part of being a good host. But set the example for the members of your forum and back it up with facts. Use anecdotes if you feel like it, everyone likes to see a practical example of just why "it's done this way for a reason", right?

Information works both ways. Just like you learn from the people on your forums, they are there to learn from you as well. So, do them a favor and get them involved:

Share a tidbit of information - whether it's a tip, trick or technique, you'd be surprised just what people don't know, or haven't thought about concerning the littlest things. You might learn something yourself... plus the more information you share, the better they will respond. You don't have to do this every day, but we'd like to see something of interest at least once a week from each moderator. If there are multiple moderators, you shouldn't have any problems with traffic on your forum - you'll be starting a bunch of conversations!
Ask questions - see what they do and don't know. Ask what they do and don't like. Make sure they know that their opinions count. You can use the forum to get information you can use for your own business or edification.
Give suggestions - No one said sit back and just watch the train wreck happen. If someone obviously doesn't know what they are talking about, set them straight. It's easier to correct bad information when it starts than when it's become ingrained as "truth" through repetition. Just be tactful while doing this.

Sometimes this will result in an argument breaking out. If that happens, and a moderator needs to step in, notify one of the other moderators on your forum, or Mike or myself, and we'll step in. It's been shown to be counter-productive if you make your statements in an argument and then lock the thread as if to say "So there! Nyaaaahhhhhh!", so don't do it. Let someone else be the heavy.

IT'S A MODERATOR'S LIFE
As previously stated, not everyone acts like an angel. Sometimes laisse-faire isn't going to cut it, and as a moderator you have to step in and take action. We'd appreciate it if all moderators would use restraint when acting within their position - if a member insults you, do not insult them back. If someone is rude, tell them so, and suggest that they modify their behavior. Private email warnings are fine as well, just make sure that you include the URL of the message in question and 'CC a copy of it to myself and Mike so that we can be kept abreast of what's going on. If public and private warnings aren't going to cut it, you might have to step in.

Should you have to take action, there are several options that you have. We'll begin with the links found at the bottom of each thread -

Close Topic - This is to be done if the post is sufficiently off topic, or inflammatory enough to warrant it being closed. We typically don't approve of this except when absolutely necessary, but use your best judgement. If flaming is getting out of hand, shut it down, warn all of the participants, and notify us.
Archiving / Moving the topic - Unless your forum gets huge, there's probably not going to be a need to archive the topics there, though occasionally you may find a thread that's so good that it warrants being saved. In that case, you should probably archive it. What's more likely to happen is that you'll find a post in your forum that needs to be moved elsewhere - like to the For Sale forums or to the Community center or something. Simply click on this link, and a screen will come up that will ask you what you would like to do: Archive or Move the topic. If you should choose to move the topic, please select the option to lock the thread in your forum, instead of having it deleted, it will prevent the "Where did my thread go?" questions.
Delete Topic - The final option. In discussions, this is not to be used unless absolutely necessary, the reason being so that we can refer to the post later should we need to ban that person from the site, or provide justification for banning. You can feel free to use this to delete duplicate threads and such, since everyone likes a tidy forum....
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In the event that you feel it necessary to delete a post, we would appreciate being notified first. Sometimes a second opinion is needed to justify this action since the thread can not be brought back after it's gone.

These are not the only options you have. As a moderator, you can also -
Edit / Delete Post - This option may or may not be available depending on current forum settings. As a moderator, you have the power to edit or delete posts when necessary. Deleting posts is typically done when there are double or triple posts from impatient users. Do NOT delete posts because of their content unless we've been notified and have taken a look (see delete topic above). As for Editing content, the only time this should be done is to fix a "Scrolling Screen of Death", when someone makes a post that causes the screen to scroll sideways. In those instances, go ahead and edit the content to fix this. Remember, when you edit a post, make sure you state why you did so by jotting a note at the end, it will prevent arguments later.

Please do not edit the content of someone's message. As with the delete function, it will be hard for us to take action against a member if the post is no longer there or edited.

Again, if the situation starts to deteriorate, warn first, then take action. Use your own best judgement.

Should the situation get heated and you need a second opinion, please feel free to notify myself or Mike, and we'll be happy to look over anything.

We do have the ability to ban anyone from our site should the situation get completely out of control. This is the final option and only the administrators have this ability.

Again, thanks for being a part of the moderator team at BladeForums.com. We hope that we can help you as much as you help us, and are glad to have you as part of the family.

BaldeForums.Com

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
Show Your Support -Visit Our Sponsors - Click On The Banners!
Visit www.onestopknifeshop.com
All sales from 1 Stop Knife Shop help support this site!
 
I've noticed a recent increase in belligerent topics and comments. The reason we have people called "moderators" is so that they can moderate that behaviour. So: more belligerent behaviour begets more inforced moderation. Let's try and have fun. Let's enjoy our differences rather than attacking them.
 
again maybe i didnt state my point clearly... Spark and Mike i agree with you and thought that i stated that clearly. what i dont understand is the "selective" editing i have seen recently.

i have never used foul language or called anyone a nasty name, but i have been called a "prick" in a thread and nobody edited that out!!! why not??? if james deletes my post which was a mere smiley with his tongue out? does this seem fair to you? many of my threads have been locked and now edited but everyone who slams me or calls me names is allowed to stay? i must have missed something in the rules or as Rich stated, do they only apply to certain people?
 
Why would they want to go and delete the guys post if he's right? They just don't understand the overland park sense of humor.
 
Well, I get dissapointed sometimes to when I see a good thread get locked. But I'm always dissapointed that the members here at bf let things get that heated that the moderators had to lock the thread. I think they have been very reasonable about which threads get locked. And I have only seen one post where the actual content was edited out and replaced by a moderator. And that was a joke that had the potential to offend a lot of people. Me, I just laughed at it, but others probably couldn't see it in that light, as a joke, so I completely understand why it was edited out. No harm done. That kind of stuff is going to have to go on, or else there will be no way for all 5000 of us to get along. We share a common interest,but we have a lot of different opinions too. So lets all give our opinions, enjoy knives, and have as much fun as we can without causing any trouble. And when something comes up, which is inevitable, let the moderators handle the problem and coninue having a good time.

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Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !
 
Hey, Beleive it or not, I can't find chuch chat either! I guess I'll just have to stick with blade forums
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Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !
 
Well, I just want to give a vote of confidence to Mike, Spark and the moderators. I remember the flame wars at recdotknives, the Cold Steel forum, the Beachmade forum and Knifeforums before the present system of registering and passwords. Personally, I come here to relax and read about knives. I don't want to read a bunch of attacks and other BS. And, I don't think the forum is overmoderated. The present system isn't be perfect, and I may not agree with everything that's said and done, but since I don't have a better solution I'll live with it. Besides, it's tough to complain about something that's 100% free.
smile.gif
 
<RANT MODE ON>
OK I see a pattern here.

Do you guys actually think we read every thread? Ever here of EMAIL?

I am not trying to be a smartass, (ok maybe I am) but seriously folks, it seems that everyone loves to bitch in public. There are, on average, 300-350+ threads posted to each day. Spark and I do not have the time to read them all or even 10%! The moderators also have DAY jobs. They do not get paid to work here and do not need a ration of **** everytime someone gets upset. We have a help forum and a bunch of ways to contact us. USE THEM.

I checked my email and guess what? Nothing...
<RANT MODE OFF>

Tim,
It is very hard for me to answer you when you do not point out specifics. Please do so as speaking in generalities is not helping me help you. I see you mentioning specific situations but you are not pointing me to them so it is hard for me to determine the context of the overall situation.

As for anything else regarding our policies or how we handle things, you can email us or use the appropriate forum.

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
Show Your Support -Visit Our Sponsors - Click On The Banners!
Visit www.onestopknifeshop.com
All sales from 1 Stop Knife Shop help support this site!
 
I was trying to delete a few unhappy comments directed at specific individuals, while letting everybody, including the parties involved, continue discussing the subject and leaving the thread itself open. I guess next time things get out of hand I should just lock the thread. I couldn't think of a really good solution, and I was trying to get some office work done in between putting out fires in the forum.

Church Chat? I don't know about everybody else's religions, but there have been plenty of times in the three or four years I've been a Net junkie that I have left a "lively" discussion where everybody is more or less of my religion, and come over to one or another knife forum to find relative serenity!

As for censorship, anybody who is alergic to it should wander over to this thread on SurfWatch. Yes, Tim's web page is blocked by SurfWatch! So is mine.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
Tim that that p-word reference you gave seems vaguely familiar
wink.gif
.It was quite awhile ago but if I recollect correctly the thread was locked up after the insult.I think James edited the content on a couple of posts to keep the thread unlocked so the discussion could continue.JKM is such a diplomat:I feel honored to have my posts edited by someone of his wisdom and character.lol

Mike ,I think the point Tim is trying to make here is that editing smileys is just plain wrong.I have to agree- there should be a rule for that.
troy


troy

[This message has been edited by Ben E Hana (edited 03-28-2000).]
 
What's with this P word reference how PC does this place have to be. It's a word ,just a word. There are many different meanings to words. It is not obscene = it's prick
a spiteful or contemptible man
 
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