Modification idea, warranty, grinding. Reccomendations/advice please.

ExtraBaconPlease

ExtraBaconPlease

Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Messages
2,898
Hey everyone!

So I have this idea in my head to turn one of my upcoming BB13's into a Full Flat Grind with a straight edge. If I straighten the edge out i will be left with 2" of blade width which is perfect for a chopper IMO. Combine that with 13 inches of full flat grind INFI and - uhghghhhh i think i just made a mess in my pants...

I've thought about how this will affect the weight and balance. It should bring the sweet spot closer to the handle, someone around the middle of the blade length which is fine by me.

I am wondering if this is a good or bad idea to you guys as I don't have much experience messing around with blade mods. Be brutally honest, I can take it lol

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That's the modification idea out of the way, now the warranty. Mods done to knives outside the Busse shop void the warranty as far as I know but what If it is done by a professional i.e Ban Tang, Josh at REK...does their work void the warranty too?

If it does, i'll just grind it myself if I decide to go through with the idea. So, grinders. Should I go for a 1x30 or 2x72?

Cheers guys! :thumbup:
 
My understanding was that unless the modification causes the failure, it doesn't void the warranty. And even if the modification does cause the failure, they'll still probably fix it, and put in in an ad for how good their warranty is. But that's just my understanding. Maybe someone from Busse will quit drinking long enough to give a more authoritative answer.
 
Your turning your BB13 into a Basic 11 + 2 so I guess it will be a Basic 13 then. Grinders, it depends if you already got one. I prefer my 2 x 72 hands down. IMHO it is not even comparable to a 1 x 30. But there is a huge difference in price if you have to buy those grinders.
 
I think the mod idea is a good one. In fact I posted about doing this in the B13 thread a couple of times. I might ask Nate (norcalblacktail) to work his magic or maybe Ban Tang. I just wish the stock was thinner on the INFI BB13. All I really wanted was an INFI 1311.
 
Blade Runner 7 said:
All I really wanted was an INFI 1311.
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That would be awesome no doubt but IMO 1/4" thick is the best thickness for a chopper, especially down here we need a little extra "umph" on our hardwoods

P.S sorry if i subconsciously stole your idea haha let's both get the mods done and kick some tree ass!
 
Dont know if it is good or bad practically but it sure would look heaps cool!
 
XtianAus said:
Dont know if it is good or bad practically but it sure would look heaps cool!
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I'm aiming to reduce weight, thin out the grind and remove the recurve. If all goes well it will be more than practical for me :) I might leave it to the pros so i dont stuff it up ahaha

Should look something like a 13" full flat grind SYKCO 911 with the drop point!
 
The biggest risk is blowing the heat treat, leaving the steel near the edge soft/brittle. A lot of care would need to be used, I believe a coolant system and a good supply of quality belts the can be run wet would be ideal. The next big risk is grinding too thin. Once it's taken off, you can't put it back on :eek:

I agree with Ladams that a 2x72" would be far superior. I've worked with some large blades on my 1x30", (mainly machetes and my DTBM,) but with a bb13 you're talking about the removal of a lot of material and the larger the blade is, the harder it's going to be to keep it perfectly flat against the belt/platen and the more you risk gouging the blade.

What happens is when the blade hits the belt at angle, the contact area is smaller so the pressure shoots way up and the belt can cut a groove in the blade very fast, especially if it's a fresh ceramic belt in a coarse grit. Trust me, I know. :o If it happens early on you can "erase" those as the regrind progresses, but at some point you don't want to gamble on taking the grind progressively thinner to chase perfection, because you can't put it back on...

My personal anecdote is that I bought an 1111 that had been reground to full flat by a foreign maker. It was really awesome at first, but I beat on it like a rented mule and rippled the edge up into the primary. Then I kept using it anyway and eventually blew a half moon chip out of it.

To Jerry's credit, I contacted him to ask a couple of questions and offered to send it in because I thought they might be interested in inspecting the damage. I made it clear that I considered to warranty void and wasn't looking for any compensation. After a few weeks they said it looked like a combination of a blown HT on the much thinner edge, which was basically my guess. I said they could send it back, but Jerry wanted to cover it. I then said it wouldn't be fair for me to take msrp because I bought the blade at a fairly steep discount. He wouldn't hear of it and gave me full credit.

I felt a little bad about it at first, but Jerry likely earned himself another customer for life and I probably spent at least another grand with the shop after this took place, so he might know what he's doing lol. :) That said, if I damage a blade that I have personally modded in the future and there's even a chance the modding is the cause, I wouldn't contact them about it.

(Oh, and I did manage to score a stock 1111 off the exchange shortly after I busted the reground one. The 1111 and 1311 are sweet blades :thumbup:)
 
Inkynate is 100% correct about the steel removal. Take it slow and easy. If you have a VFD on your grinder you can slow the speed to try and help, but that also causes problems in itself. It is very easy to put a mark on the blade you will have to learn to over look lol. I have a small pile of blades that are going to be changed because I made a tactical change in the grind on the spot lol. Well written!!! Or as the Millwrights used to say where I worked, "Beat to fit, paint to match" lol.


inkynate said:
The biggest risk is blowing the heat treat, leaving the steel near the edge soft/brittle. A lot of care would need to be used, I believe a coolant system and a good supply of quality belts the can be run wet would be ideal. The next big risk is grinding too thin. Once it's taken off, you can't put it back on :eek:

I agree with Ladams that a 2x72" would be far superior. I've worked with some large blades on my 1x30", (mainly machetes and my DTBM,) but with a bb13 you're talking about the removal of a lot of material and the larger the blade is, the harder it's going to be to keep it perfectly flat against the belt/platen and the more you risk gouging the blade.

What happens is when the blade hits the belt at angle, the contact area is smaller so the pressure shoots way up and the belt can cut a groove in the blade very fast, especially if it's a fresh ceramic belt in a coarse grit. Trust me, I know. :o If it happens early on you can "erase" those as the regrind progresses, but at some point you don't want to gamble on taking the grind progressively thinner to chase perfection, because you can't put it back on...

My personal anecdote is that I bought an 1111 that had been reground to full flat by a foreign maker. It was really awesome at first, but I beat on it like a rented mule and rippled the edge up into the primary. Then I kept using it anyway and eventually blew a half moon chip out of it.

To Jerry's credit, I contacted him to ask a couple of questions and offered to send it in because I thought they might be interested in inspecting the damage. I made it clear that I considered to warranty void and wasn't looking for any compensation. After a few weeks they said it looked like a combination of a blown HT on the much thinner edge, which was basically my guess. I said they could send it back, but Jerry wanted to cover it. I then said it wouldn't be fair for me to take msrp because I bought the blade at a fairly steep discount. He wouldn't hear of it and gave me full credit.

I felt a little bad about it at first, but Jerry likely earned himself another customer for life and I probably spent at least another grand with the shop after this took place, so he might know what he's doing lol. :) That said, if I damage a blade that I have personally modded in the future and there's even a chance the modding is the cause, I wouldn't contact them about it.

(Oh, and I did manage to score a stock 1111 off the exchange shortly after I busted the reground one. The 1111 and 1311 are sweet blades :thumbup:)
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That's a lot of work, IMHO it would be best left to a pro.

And then you should assume that you would then own the warranty yourself, trust the INFI, and don't do anything too stupid. Enjoy.
 
I don't think I would do a mod like that, even if its done by a professional. How much weight would it actually take off? Why risk damaging the heat treat and voiding the warranty for a few ounces of weight. Get a Scrapyard 1311 off the exchange or i'm sure eventually there will a Basic-13 produced sometime in the future.
 
banana-clip said:
How much weight would it actually take off?
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I don't have any pre-set plans to mod my BB13, but as a reference, the reground 1111 I had was roughly 4.5oz lighter than stock.

My quess would be that taking the BB13 to full flat could shave off half a pound, potentially more if converting to a straight edge.
 
I agree with banana-clip. Resharpening is one thing, but what you are planning could and would be harder and more difficult than just using another blade. Why ruin such a beautifully designed and executed knife to make it different when there are so many others to choose from? Of course it's your knife, so good luck! 😄
 
ExtraBaconPlease said:
That would be awesome no doubt but IMO 1/4" thick is the best thickness for a chopper, especially down here we need a little extra "umph" on our hardwoods

P.S sorry if i subconsciously stole your idea haha let's both get the mods done and kick some tree ass!
Click to expand...

Not at all! Great minds think alike.
 
Whatever mods you guys do just make sure you keep the blade cool. Especially where it thins out. The edge can flash a high temp before you know it. I have done this kind of stuff on cheap knives. Just to see how hot things get. Even with a bucket full of water and ice and constantly dipping the blade was warm. Also use the roughest grit possible to take metal off. It produces less heat than the higher grits. And if you choose to send it to a pro, make sure to ask what it is that they do to mitigate heat when grinding down a blade.
 
Are they differentially hardened? If so, do you think you will take off enough material for that to be a factor?
 
I love mods. and I understand what you want to do, especially since I'm not a huge fan of recurves myself.... but that's not a MOD.-- it's major surgery!!! :eek:

Personally, I wouldn't tackle that one...pretty sure the BB13 will be through-hardened, but you're gonna be grinding into some deep virgin steel near the bolo bulge...

At the very least, you're gonna have a lot of thickness behind the edge in that area unless you plan on grinding down the primary flats there too.

When you get finished, how different will it be from a B11 or a 1311? A bit of length.... INFI rather than sr101? :confused:

Will it be worth the risk, time, equipment, belts, effort? I say, "No, it will not." :(

I try to trust the engineer / designer's philosophy of use behind most offerings and restrict my modifications to personalize the "looks" or tweak the ergonomics a bit.

Grab you another 1311 or snag a B11 and beat the living daylights out of it. Both models come up pretty regular on the Exchange here...but you probably already know that don't you?

But that's just one wee piglet's opinion <and you asked for it ;)>...but what do you expect when you cast your pearl before swine like me? ;):)
 
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Thanks everyone for your input! This is exactly what I was after :)

If I decide to go through with it, i'll leave the work to a pro.

I understand what you're saying Petey in trusting the makers design philosphy, I do! I just wanna get a little crazy on one of mine though and see what happens hahaha - you'll never know if you don't try!!
 
The end result will be close to a 1311, from INFI. Except it won't, as the INFI BB13 is thicker than a 1311. So your idea will be unique. That's not a bad thing. I do appreciate the willingness of some folk here to make a blade their own. Your knife, your money.

Good luck and keep us posted.
 
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