Modify Arbor press or a Leather Press hole punch?

Leaving your bottom layer a bit oversized may prevent some of the twist you are describing. This is common practice when sewing with a machine. After sewing trim to size. Here is a sheath I'm working on. The bottom layer extends past everywhere that is sewn and then trimmed. Parts of a project that are not sewn are not extended. You'll have less roll from the bottom layer as you are punching your holes whether they are punched by hand or by machine.

zQuWU9L.jpg


Pile on left to be trimmed. Pile on right already trimmed:

xFUC6PA.jpg
 
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I usually leave the welt and sheath itself a good bit oversized and then glue up the 3 layers. After glue up, I rough out the profile with the head knife, then clean up everything to 220 grit on the belt sander, still leaving a little meat to remove. After that, I use the stitch groover front and back, then punch the holes, trying to get the back holes into the stitch groove. This is where I struggle the most and the holes on the back side are smaller and harder to thread and often wander from the groove line.

Swiss Heritage's method of 2 layers at a time would help with this; leather would lay flatter when punching and go thru 2 layers at a time. I could do the outer pieces, then glue up the welt to the back and punch from the back side thru the welt, which would also help recess the stitches a bit on the back side, too and make those openings larger. Then poke thru the 1 layer of rubber cement with the awl once all 3 pieces are glued.

If I punch deep enough into the front and back of the leather, that may be enough to recess the threads instead of doing the stitch groove line? I know the front side punches down nicely with the punch going thru the 3 layers, so if I do the reverse side too, that would make stitching much easier and help the threads tuck down nicely without worrying as much about the stitch groover line. I use pre dyed leather or dye the leather before assembling the sheath and doing the groove, and then re dying the groove before punching to hide the groove in case my threads are off.

I got a few different methods to play with for the next sheath!

After sewing up, I clean up the edges again to 600 grit sandpaper, chamfer the corners, burnish, etc. I think I am around 3/16" from the edge with my stitches I believe, maybe 1/4"? I'm still a bit scared to go too close to the edge! LOL. Going closer looks so much nicer, but I am worried I will go too far!
 
Taz said:
I usually leave the welt and sheath itself a good bit oversized and then glue up the 3 layers. After glue up, I rough out the profile with the head knife, then clean up everything to 220 grit on the belt sander, still leaving a little meat to remove. After that, I use the stitch groover front and back, then punch the holes, trying to get the back holes into the stitch groove. This is where I struggle the most and the holes on the back side are smaller and harder to thread and often wander from the groove line.

Swiss Heritage's method of 2 layers at a time would help with this; leather would lay flatter when punching and go thru 2 layers at a time. I could do the outer pieces, then glue up the welt to the back and punch from the back side thru the welt, which would also help recess the stitches a bit on the back side, too and make those openings larger. Then poke thru the 1 layer of rubber cement with the awl once all 3 pieces are glued.

If I punch deep enough into the front and back of the leather, that may be enough to recess the threads instead of doing the stitch groove line? I know the front side punches down nicely with the punch going thru the 3 layers, so if I do the reverse side too, that would make stitching much easier and help the threads tuck down nicely without worrying as much about the stitch groover line. I use pre dyed leather or dye the leather before assembling the sheath and doing the groove, and then re dying the groove before punching to hide the groove in case my threads are off.

I got a few different methods to play with for the next sheath!

After sewing up, I clean up the edges again to 600 grit sandpaper, chamfer the corners, burnish, etc. I think I am around 3/16" from the edge with my stitches I believe, maybe 1/4"? I'm still a bit scared to go too close to the edge! LOL. Going closer looks so much nicer, but I am worried I will go too far!
Click to expand...

Honestly you dont need to add a groove line on the back. I barely put one on the front, it's more for just having a symmetrical line for the prongs. By the time you pull the tension the stitches lay flat on the front, and I just use a flat polished hammer on the backside because they are slightly raised on the back (not much if you pull the stitching tight though).

But, the depth of your groove does affect the look of the stitch for sure. The deeper the groove the shorter the stitch appears on the front.

I do put deep grooves inside the sheath to recess the stitching for the belt loop though.
 
Yeah, I try to remember to groove the inside of the belt loop to keep those tight and pull them tight as well! I don't groove the outside of the loop, just the inside.

I will play with the groove depth and maybe punch from the front and back to help recess the threads a bit and see how that looks!
 
Like many, I started off many years ago using deep stitch grooves on the front and back of all my sheaths and holsters "to protect the stitching". Seemed reasonable at the time. Over time, I found out that those that use sewing machines generally groove the front, they do not attempt to groove the back. I have not heard of any professional makers using machines having any issues with thread wear on the back. Dave can probably speak to that much better than me. What I have learned is that to get the grooves deep enough to place the thread below the surface completely does make the stitches look different and, if you are not careful, inconsistent. So, after 30 or more years of grooving front and back, I now don't groove either. I do use various tools like dividers to mark a stitch line on the front. As I am sewing, I put good, consistent tension on the stitches and that does tend to pull them into the leather more than you might believe. I then use a Crispin style hammer with a polished face to tap the stitching down. Comparing what I do now to past work, the stitching does not look much different and all extend above the surface somewhat. My current experience shows me that I wasted a lot of time with grooving on the back and it is really not needed on the front for my work. I have never had any stitching fail.

I am a pretty stubborn guy and it took me a long time to change but I am definitely glad I did. Saves lots of time and frustration and I get as good or better results. I am not suggesting everybody should do this. We all have our own experiences, beliefs and preferences that make our styles and approach what they are. I am just relating my experience so it might give others a different perspective and things to try. Just FYI.
Randy
 
Good to know! When I played with some water buffalo from Tandy, it was veg and chrome tanned and was super soft and the threads pulled in without doing the groove. It was nice not having to worry about the groove, maybe I will do a layout line instead so I have a map for the punch and not worry about a groove line? If I punch from the front, going thru 3 layers of thick leather, the prongs kinda bury into the top piece and recess it a bit anyway! So I may punch front and back along a lay out line and be done with that.

I will check out the polished hammers to hammer down the threads in the back a bit.
 
Horsewright said:
Leaving your bottom layer a bit oversized may prevent some of the twist you are describing. This is common practice when sewing with a machine. After sewing trim to size. Here is a sheath I'm working on. The bottom layer extends past everywhere that is sewn and then trimmed. Parts of a project that are not sewn are not extended. You'll have less roll from the bottom layer as you are punching your holes whether they are punched by hand or by machine.

zQuWU9L.jpg


Pile on left to be trimmed. Pile on right already trimmed:

xFUC6PA.jpg
Click to expand...

Your efficiency always impresses me Dave. Interesting to see how you've boiled your process down to minimal drag.
 
Taz said:
Good to know! When I played with some water buffalo from Tandy, it was veg and chrome tanned and was super soft and the threads pulled in without doing the groove. It was nice not having to worry about the groove, maybe I will do a layout line instead so I have a map for the punch and not worry about a groove line? If I punch from the front, going thru 3 layers of thick leather, the prongs kinda bury into the top piece and recess it a bit anyway! So I may punch front and back along a lay out line and be done with that.

I will check out the polished hammers to hammer down the threads in the back a bit.
Click to expand...
The only pre-polished hammers I know of are Ranch2Arena brand. Kind of spendy but good. Less expensive to get a cobbler hammer and polish the face yourself. That's what I did and it works great.
 
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Got this at my blacksmith guild iron in the hat last year, didn't know what type of hammer it was! Time to start polishing it! Do I slightly round the faces or go full flat and round just the edges/corners?
 
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Thanks! So kinda like a forging hammer,. rounded, smooth and polished! I need to get a new handle fitted, too, this one is a bit loose!
 
I just use a ball peen hammer that I polished up. I wrote on the handle: “Leather Only.” That was a long time ago. The sharpie has worn off.

I think the stitching groove on the back of a project came from hand sewing with an awl. It gave you a target to shoot at with the awl. It certainly is not necessary. We’ve literally made thousands and thousands of items without a rear sewing groove. These are in daily use in very hard use conditions. Just not necessary and it was never done on soft leather items like chaps, bags etc anyways. On veg tan items I do use a front groove. But, thats more of just trying to keep the sewing straight. Even on very long items like reins we don’t use a roller guide. Have one it sits in a drawer.

On a lot of items it literally would be impossible to do a rear groove:

6nSLRej.jpg


kO95esY.jpg
 
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