Monarch lands

Gollnick

Gollnick

Musical Director
Joined
Mar 22, 1999
Messages
29,258
Around Balisong Collector Headquarters, we've been having an office pool on which would arrive first, Monarch or Tachyon. Well, the answer came today: a mated pair of Monarchs.

The sheaths are extrordinary. Wonderful, quality leather. The belt loop on the back is rather tight, but I think it will stretch some with use. If you've got a thick belt, though, you might have problems.

The blades have the rather loud ink on them, yes. But, they are nicely ground, nicely polished, and shaving sharp.

The joints have just enough play to allow the blade to move freely without allowing any wobble. Perfect. The pins are polished down and just barely visible under strong light. They remind me very much of the old "Production Quality" days only a lot fatter. These pins are simply not going to break.

The lock open is tight and as solid as can be. This is the perfect example of why the balisong is the strongest and most reliable lock mechanism for a folding knife. The only thing stronger or more reliable would be a full-tang fixed blade.

The handles are heavy and fat. If you like Jaguar's handle geometry but are getting tired of replacing pins, then this is your dream balisong. Everything is nicely machined and has a very nice brushed finish.

The latch is reversible for either a Batangas or Manila configuration. However, the polishing of the handles was apparently done after the latches were already installed in the popular Batangas configuration. Yes, with just a small flat-blade screwdriver (not an exotic small torx) you could easily remove the pin and swap the latch over to the other handle. But, as they come out of the box, the screw head has been polished right into the handle finish and if it weren't for the slot, you wouldn't be able to see it. It's a great look.

Latch up closed is just a little bit loose. But, that's good. Because man can not create perfection. The indians used to deliberately make a mistake in the weaving of their rugs just so that they wouldn't be perfect since the gods would be mad if a mear human tried to create something perfect. Like those indian rugs, Monarch has a flaw: the blade has no kick and the edge hits on the inside of the handle when you close the knife.

It's a great quality piece of workmanship. About as solid and rugged a balisong as you can buy. IF only it had a kick.
 
I find it ridiculous that such an expensive and high quality knife does not have a kick in the blade. Seems like they overlooked a HUGE flaw in their balisong design and that the "shaving sharp" blade wouldn't last 10 minutes under any serious manipulation, which is what this knife was made for, hard use and manipulation.
 
I think I got a lemon. So far the following have gone wrong with mine coming out of the bag:

The felt patch in the front of the sheath, protecting the blade from being scratched by the back of the snap has come unglued, and we have some minor scratches on the handle. I only know this because the felt piece was stuck to the handle as I pulled the knife out.

The latch has a 3/16" gap when latched open.
 
Won't latch close because the tip of the blade is preventing it from coming full vertical.

Forgot to mention: I'm not upset. I trust Richard will straighten this out for me, and I will have a working Monarch in my hands soon.
 
Originally posted by tonyccw
Forgot to mention: I'm not upset. I trust Richard will straighten this out for me, and I will have a working Monarch in my hands soon.
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Tony- How can these problems be fixed? The handles are slightly misaligned, but that is either the pin holes or the handle which are at fault. The latch hits the blade in the closed position, but that can't be fixed without re-doing latch completely or re-grinding the blade so it is shorter. All the things that bug me about this knife cannot be fixed, as far as I can imagine. I am upset about spending this money, but I can't really return it because it took me a few flips (my mistake) to figure out THAT I didn't like it and WHY. Well, if you get it fixed, let us know. Maybe I'll give them a call myself and see what they say.
 
When I talked to Richard on the phone a few months back he told me these Monarchs would be a picture of quality (my words). I'm glad I didn't get one.:barf:
 
Actually, I think in my case Richard will simply swap me with another knife, and use this one to demonstrate why quality control is a good thing if you want to keep customer. I don't expect Richard to have the mistakes taken care of and send me the same knife back. He can't. The one I got needs a whole new set of handles.

These things happen with first productions. Not everyone like to see them, but they occur. As long as I'm satisfied as a customer first, then my dealing with Knifemart is still good.

If I don't like the bali, then I'm free to do with it what I want. I'd probably just stick in my museum. You talking about a guy who once spent $300 for Ralph Turnbull to make me a "legal experiment.":D
 
As mentioned in an earlier post.., mine actually work great (although the "kick" deficit is significant).

A few mentioned that they got models that were "sticky" also...meaning not very swingable out of the box. I didn't experience that with mine at all, but as mentioned..., this is a "first try" for Richard, and I'm sure the learning curve will be a factor, as it always is with a new product.

As Tony mentioned.., I'm sure Richard will fix him up with a new knife without the handle flaws noted.





"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
I cannot believe that Tony's knife made it into a shipping box, I'm sorry, if I were making knives, I would hand inspect every one of them and not every other, every third or every sixth one.

This thread carries with it the disappointment of Tony's knife making it out of that shop with some major problems which are clearly not cosmetic [which I can tolerate well].

And I'm simply not going to get one now, not because Tony received a lemon, but because I'm not buying a Bali I can't flip, and I can't flip a Bali with no kick without ruining the knife. The knife becomes its own worst enemy at that point. Having no kick is like the knife having a virus, the lack of a kick begins to eat the edge away or at least damaging it.

You can use the finest materials in the world and you can put it together perfectly, if there is a flaw in the design, you cannot get by that. The knife might look cool in a case, but a placard should read: "Nice Balisong, good materials and craftsmanship, not designed well."

How could they possibly forget the kick? Especially with Chuck having communications with them?
 
How could they possibly forget the kick? Especially with Chuck having communications with them?
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I've asked myself that very question.

First, let me state that a kick is not necessary for a balisong. Tachyon doesn't have one. What's necessary is that the edge of the blade not hit the inside of the handle when the knife is closed. I've seen probably a half a dozen methods to accomplish this. A "kick" is just the one that BM, the largest and best-known producer of quality balisongs, has used.

So, how could it be that thirty seconds after taking my first Monarch out of the box I said, "Wait a minute, the blade is hitting the inside of the handle." Literally, about thirty seconds. Well, thirty seconds after getting to the knife. I spent quite some time admiring the sheath before I even got to the knife. Anyway, it didn't take me but thirty seconds to spot that problem. So, how could I have missed it on the prototypes?

The answer is in the pictures which are on my site. The blade profile on the production Monarchs has been changed. It's not a huge change, but it is a change. Specifically, the belly has been deepened just a bit. I believe that the prototypes did not hit.

Darn it. I wish I'd have seen this new profile before it went into production.

I'm reminded of Ron Thomason. Most of you don't know Ron. I don't know him personally, but I've seen him on TV. He's a local car dealer and he always ends his commercials by saying, "If you don't come and see me today, I can't save you any money."
 
Long time no 'hear' from......John Salley didn't use a kick on his bali. He had an adjustable set screw that the tang contacted. Worked real well. Maybe that will be a project for me to try; I'll get a brass-point set screw and drill and tap a hole in the correct handle. Details later.........;)
 
Hi Dudley,

How did the set screw hold up? I would think the threads would eventually get pretty sloppy with the repeated impact.

Mer
 
Salley's knives are the epitome of perfection and the one I have is as tight as the day I got it. It's a fine thread and seems to work well; a lot of surface. The closer the screw is set to the tang, the slower the blade is moving and the less the impact should be. The tang pin should take the rest of the impact from the other handle with the set screw taking the blade mass.........:confused:
 
Dudley,

Do you have any photos of his knives I could take a look at. It sounds really interesting.

Thanks,

Mer
 
Originally posted by Gollnick
The blade profile on the production Monarchs has been changed. It's not a huge change, but it is a change. Specifically, the belly has been deepened just a bit. I believe that the prototypes did not hit.
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OK, this is now starting to disturb me. The blade of my lemon of a Monarch does not hit the handles. There's not much of a gap, but it does not touch the blade. The belly is level with the tang on mine. I certainly hope we're not just dealing with some production variances with the blade. I can understand the handles not fitting properly, but the blades should be pretty uniform.

Another simple solution would be to mill out the walls between the second/third/fourth slots in the handle. It shouldn't weaken the handle at all. This way the blade will not have an obstruction to hit.
 
As for milling out the slots on the handle, that's a bad idea. If the knife settles in any more, the blade may protrude (ever so slightly) through the new slot... ruining the protection for your hands that the handles provide.

As for the set screw idea, be careful... less impact, but more leverage from the handles. The more times you squeeze the handles to release the latch, the more that screw will be deformed... not by impact, but by leverage.

For those of you who are REALLY ambitious, this is the only thing I can think of... but it requires finding someone to do the work for you if you don't have the equipment...

A guy I met in Texas Knife Supply once told me that if you put a regular nail in a drill press, and bear down on a the blade, the nail will anneal that small area that it hits. Meaning, the heat treatment should stay intact throughout the blade, except for that one spot, which will be softened. After that, drill through the little soft spot you've just created... and insert a second tang pin, IE like the tachyon. Now, for myself, I haven't tried this out yet, since I don't have a Monarch myself, but without a kick, and not wanting to mangle things too badly, a second tang pin seems like a good idea.
 
Originally posted by Lothar.OTHP
As for milling out the slots on the handle, that's a bad idea. If the knife settles in any more, the blade may protrude (ever so slightly) through the new slot... ruining the protection for your hands that the handles provide.
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There's at least 1/16th of handle material between the inner and outer walls of the handle. Even with no "kick" I doubt you'll wear the tang down enough for the blade to protrude. If need be, taking another mm of the inner wall, without milling it out completely, will give you some gap buffer.

A guy I met in Texas Knife Supply once told me that if you put a regular nail in a drill press, and bear down on a the blade, the nail will anneal that small area that it hits. Meaning, the heat treatment should stay intact throughout the blade, except for that one spot, which will be softened. After that, drill through the little soft spot you've just created... and insert a second tang pin, IE like the tachyon. Now, for myself, I haven't tried this out yet, since I don't have a Monarch myself, but without a kick, and not wanting to mangle things too badly, a second tang pin seems like a good idea.
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Three obsticles. The first is the tang pin size. On the Monarch, it's 3/16" thick. Which means the corresonding gap on the closed handle will also need to be 3/16" thick. Second, not sure if your little technique will give you a large enough space to drill out 3/16" material. Third, with a second tang pin, you'll need to cut a second set of tang pin cups. Not something you'd want to do with the handles pinned in place. Still, a viable alternative.
 
Turns out my lemon isn't so bad. Just needs to have the safe handle replaced. First off, it's pinned off-center:
 
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