Mora 2000

C

Cliff Stamp

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I meant to get one of these back in 98 when Mike Swaim discussed it on rec.knives, I finally got around to it last year, which shows the near light-speed nature of my reviewing process.

This really is an excellent light to medium use utility knife, which excells at wood working, has a comfortable and a decently secure and grippy handle.

It is much more restricted in scope of work though compared to something more robust like the Howling Rat, but also is a lot lighter (and cheaper) and in general has higher cutting ability.

Know what you want and get the right knife. Ref :

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/mora_2000.html

This I think will make a nice benchmark for that class of knife as the performance to cost ratio is really high.

The only real functional downside is that sheath being just plastic, can rattle, isn't very impact resistant and the straps are not that durable - but then again consider the cost.

-Cliff
 
Great review. Can't wait to see how Alvin's new knives compare to the Mora 2000.

Speaking of performance to cost ratio, the buckskinner in T1 high speed steel looks promising:
throw-h.jpg
 
Nice review, Cliff.

Wondering if you have any comments on the edge retention compared to the carbon steel puukko. According to Ragnar's site, the Eriksson carbon steel blades are 1095 run at ~60 Rc, while the stainless are Sandvik 12C27 at ~58 Rc. Although I have no experience with Sandvik, I probably would have expected the carbon blade to have better edge retention.

Dave
 
I have been carrrying a Mora 2000 as my primary bush knife for a year and a half now, and have come to appreciate this knifes ability to perform any job. It takes and holds a very sharp edge, and that high scandi grind cuts through even very hard wood with ease. In fact, using a reverse grip and pulling back, I can easily slice through 1.25" alder, and by cutting a notch first, can pull the blade through 2" alder. Combined with its battoning ability, I see no absolute neccesity for a chopper. ( although I allways carry one ;) )
Cliff, I know that you aren't that keen on the zero grind knife, due to the amount of metal that must be removed to re-grind an edge, but in my experience, this needs to be done so seldom that it is a non-issue for me. After flattening the bevels, I just keep it stropped with green chrome rouge, and very occasionally (maybe twice a year) touch it up on a hard Arkansas stone. I haven't damaged the edge enough to go any coarser than that.
In fact, the only compromise this knife makes, is the tip is more rounded than a standard mora. I assume that this was done to make it more useful as a skinning blade. It does skin well ( though it cuts through the hide too easily ) but there are times that a more acute point would be handy. I really like the handle, it fits my very large hands well, but my 16 and 12 year old sons like the handles as well. I even like the sheath. It is secure, strong, doesn't rattle at all ( at least non of the three we have ), but still allows an easy draw and resheathing. I spend a lot of time in the bush, and demand a lot from a knife. I use them hard, but take care of them. It will take quite a knife to supplant the M2K.
 
Thombrogan, Who makes the knife in the picture you posted? Is there a website? Thanks.
 
Under which section? I'm having trouble locating it. Thanks.
 
Ant down sides to the factory sheaths have been aptly dealt with by ON Scene Tactical Eric is producing a sheath that take the combo up the notch it needs to go.
 
ColoradoDave said:
[1095 at ~60 Rc vs Sandvik 12C27 at ~58 Rc]

I probably would have expected the carbon blade to have better edge retention.
Click to expand...

So would I, the ones I used didn't however. I ran three different edge retention trails, hemp, cardboard and carpet. Multiple runs on each, complete sharpenings each time, same edge angle and grit finish resulting in idential starting sharpness. The 12C27 has consistently better edge retention on the hemp. slightly better on the carpet and was as good on the cardboard.


mooseman said:
... you aren't that keen on the zero grind knife, due to the amount of metal that must be removed to re-grind an edge ...
Click to expand...

This is one of the problems, it has others though, compared to a higher dual grind (Deerhunter) it has a lower strength to weight ratio, a higher side drag, and a weaker edge at the same level of cutting ability. It is simply the worst way to grind such a knife.

Of course this is only one element of the total performance, there are lots of knives which I would not pick over the Mora 2000 even though they have an inherently superior grind nature as the implementation is less than optimal for those tasks.

Of course its isn't a serious downside when the cost of these knives is so low. However when the knives get costly, it makes no sense to use the least optimal grind. Especially when the steels get hard to machine like S30V, that is a horrible choice for a puuko, or survival knife in general for that matter.

This is an example of how you make an optomized "puukko" :

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/aj_utility.jpg

This is essentially a puukko with a hollow grind jammed on top of it. This blade is optomized for lighter work though so you would not compare it directly to a Mora 2000, but the general procedure could be done with a more robust profile.

That above custom blade has an edge which is 0.012-0.014" thick, ground at 5.6 +/- 0.2 degrees. Made by Alvin Johnson out of 1/16", O1 through hardened to 63.5 HRC. Here are some others examples of his work :

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/aj_paring_side.jpg

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/aj_paring_top.jpg

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/aj_skinner.jpg

The paring knife has a similar grind, its 1095 at 66 HRC, the skinner is M2 at 65 HRC, full convex grind, slight secondary edge bevel ground 0.002-0.003" thick, at 4.3 +/- 0.1 degrees .



... there are times that a more acute point would be handy
Click to expand...

Yes, this is promoted as a survival blade though, so I can see the broad tip. For most EDC work I carry the slim carbon version, it makes a better paring knife and visually prints much less as a weapon when used in public. In the woods I carry the Mora 2000.



[sheath]

It is secure, strong, doesn't rattle at all ( at least non of the three we have), but still allows an easy draw and resheathing.
Click to expand...

Some context is needed for my above comments, comparing it as a survival knife the sheath doesn't fare well compared to general survival sheaths which are much more durable and have secondary retention systems for the blade. Most rattle problems are due to the floppy nature of the sheath, no secondary attachment and the belt loop isn't rigid, plus plastic in general amplifies hard contacts. Again though you can't really complain when considering the price, a decent survival leather sheath (Chas Clements) or dual kydex laminate from Andrew Lynch would cost you much more than this knife anyway.

-Cliff
 
One of the ways to carry the M2K rattle free is to lanyard the sheath to the belt and tuck the whole shebang into your pocket. It makes for a very low profile, yet easily and quickly accessible fixed blade carry.... The sheath is also very handy for blowing on the base of a fire. It concentrates the breath and makes for a handy blast furnace...
 
numberthree said:
The sheath is also very handy for blowing on the base of a fire. It concentrates the breath and makes for a handy blast furnace...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the good suggestion.
 
I updated this recently, mainly I was going back over some of the things I had done after reading work by Landes and Verhoeven on knife steels and the information specifically about carbide content and how this class of steel 12C27mod is such a good steel for knives due to the nature of the C/Cr content and its relation to the critical tie line for such steels.

Based on what I had done I had seen nothing overly impressive about the steel, especially comparing it to higher alloy stainless which will tend to outcut it. However most of this, all in fact for this knife, was done in regards to edge retention and sharpness slicing, hemp, cardboard and carpet. In general this seems to be the prevailing way in which edge retention is ranked currently for cutlery.

It would be interesting to see if used for mainly push cutting, how would 12C27mod compare to VG-10, on say hardwoods and cardboard. They definately seem tougher in comparison, as few people have broken the blades of these knives and they tend to get used fairly hard because of the price. This would seem to be a good steel for tacticals or large blade stainless in general.

I would also be interested to see how the effect of alloy carbides like vanadium effect the composition, does Crucible have similar data for the Vanadium based stainless as Verhoeven has presented for the C/Cr series stainless in regards to dissolved carbon and alloy content and the effects on hardness and corrosion resistance?

-Cliff
 
The late Butch Winter had some very positive things to say about 12C27 in one of his columns (sorry, can't seem to lay my hands on it). Although one of the simpler alloys, it was concocted by Sandvik specifically for a cutlery steel, has a fine grain and has been used by a variety of firms. My experience with the Moras in 12C27 has been very positive. Takes an excellent edge and holds it well.
 
Bark River is using 12C27 on a quite a few of their blades. I have a couple and they work well, although they do not hold an edge as well as my S30V knives, or my Busses.
 
I'm a big fan of the Mora 2000. Nearly eight years ago I wrote a quick review in Rec.knives "Ode to an Inexpensive Knife."

"Cruising looking at knives and knife sites I've seen many good and bad. One
thing I've noticed is that sometimes price is not an indicator of quality or
performamce. With our current emphasis on "tactical" knifes costing multi
hundreds of $'s I think we've dismissed some really practical blades. Prime
examples of such are the various styles from Scandinavia. I recently bought a
Mora 2000 from the Ragweed Forge - http://www.bluemoon.net/~ragnar/ - and ran
it through some paces. The 12c27 stainless blade is about 4.5" long, 1" wide,
and about 1/16th thick with an interesting duel grind - typical Swedish near
the tang transitioning to a flat grind at the tip. Thr handle is plastic combo
similar to zytle and kraton. The sheath is plastic but holds the knife without
a keeper even when carried inverted. Now this knife CUTS like mad - razor
sharp! I'm sure it's the grind combined with a very thin cross section (Joe
Talmadge I hope you read this - kinda like AG's Deerhunter). Everything I've
thrown at it gets cut up on short order - leather, cardboard, carpet, denim,
wood, etc.. Yes, it's still sharp. No it's not a wonder knife. It's simple in
design, kind of homely (ok - ugly), I wouldn't use ut as a pry-bar, wouldn't
be my first choice for a defensive blade (although I suspect it would do just
fine in this role). But for utility use it's super - sort of a Swedish
"survival" knife. Now for the interesting part - the cost. This gem goes for a
whopping $25! I suspect this knife will give me pause the next time I feel the
urge to spend $200-500 for a "super" knife. Moral of the story - sometimes
good knives don't cost big bucks and form follows fuction. Just some
thoughts... "

My opinion hasn't changed one bit. Great knife at a great price.
 
Loki said:
This gem goes for a
whopping $25!
Click to expand...

It has increased over the years and is now a massive $30, last I checked, still well worth it.

Steelhed said:
Bark River is using 12C27 on a quite a few of their blades. I have a couple and they work well, although they do not hold an edge as well as my S30V knives, or my Busses.
Click to expand...

That steel is designed to offer essentially 1060 + corrosion resistance, meaning it can reach maximum martensite hardness and has little carbide volume fraction, and those that are there are very fine. It has been argued by some to give better edge retention in push cutting than the more coarse grained steels, but in general it takes really low angles, very high standards for sharpness, and fairly specific cutting to note this difference. I keep meaning to check it out. It will get massively outperformed if you run it against S30V or similar in a slicing comparison at large angles.

Ed, it will be interesting to see how you compare it to D2 for a hunting knife steel.

-Cliff
 
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