More Layoffs at Case

[yobbos1]

Darn near impossible to find in Canada, we have one Bass Pro in the whole country and that's it. Luckily it's about 45 minutes from my house.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

John,

I will bet you that most of those people are elderly ladies who have worked for Case for 30-40 years and a much, much smaller number are management that does not have the heart to dump them. You have to feel for the folks who are forced to decide, in an economy like this one, who continues to work and who has to go sit at home without work. Bradford is a tiny town and Zippo and Case are a large part of the jobs available.

I see your point AG , there are those that may have been there for 30 plus years , what it comes down to is , do they want to maintain more suits than workers and fade into the past , or do they want to cut the " mgmt fat " and survive.

• Would it have saved more to cut the same amount of upper level positions ?
• Which is better for the bottom line ?
• Which is better for the long term of the company ?
• Which will give a better % chance of surviving the economy now ?

Unless someone has inside info as to what the numbers are in each area , we are just guessing.

I would love to go out and buy a few case knives this week , however , after reading the stuff regarding # of mgmt to worker ratio , I can't believe that buying a new knife will help keep another factory worker in a job.

While I love to buy USA , I prefer to buy SMART BUSINESS USA.

Jackknife... right on ( as usual ! ) :thumbup:

 

[65hoss]

You know, I have always wanted a Case yeller handled CV knife so I think today is the day to purchase one. I may also purchase another in a week or so to give to my father-in-law to go with his yeller CV peanut.

I like your thinking. Tomorrow is a trip to the store to pick up some more yellerhandles. Just can't seem to have to many. Just need an excuse to buy more. Now I have a good excuse to go shoppin'.

 

[Sidehill Gouger]

Using my zip code, it looks like the nearest official Case dealer is something like 75 miles away. I can remember when there where several local hardware stores carrying them but that was long before all the "beanie baby" Case knives. Their quality standards went out the window a long time ago but they don't care because they sell to "collectors." Come hard times the number of collectors starts to shrink pretty fast, especially for something that really doesn't have any collectible value.

Give me 60's quality at a price adjusted for inflation to 2009 and I would carry a Case knife. As it is, I buy one every a couple of years to see if they have improved. They haven't.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

Interesting , in a city as big as Vegas...

I have the following Authorized Dealers to choose from :
Bass Pro - 14 miles away
Overton Ace Hardware - 41 miles
Hurst Stores Inc -98 miles

yet I have 5 Benchmade dealers within 25 miles.... hmmmm

 

[KnifeHead]

Having attended the Case customer event last summer in Bradford http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=570746 and having some inside plant access to boot gave me a great appreciation for Case, the company.

Just last year at this time, some of the conversation was how they were in the process of hiring new people to meet demand. One of the thoughts that entered my mind at the time was how incredibly happy everyone appeared(to me) that worked there. I saw interaction between management and production folks and found them all to be very family like. I'm pretty sure they are hating to make the kinds of decisions that have to be made to keep the company in the black.

I sure didn't see the percentage of management folks in or around the plant that has been quoted in this thread . 90 out of 350(before layoffs) sounds really high to me. I mean...the Case folks seemed happy...not stupid

I sure hope they are able to weather the storm. Regardless of what you think about Case knives past and present, the company is practically a national treasure.

Oh yea...almost forgot...you're a national treasure too, A.G.

 

[orca8589]

Maybe Case needs to put away for now the collector knives. Table the blue bone, the Johnny Cash knife, the John Deer knife, and the whole collector thing and go back to thier roots. One of the first things to go in a bad economy is luxury items, like Boyds Bears and collector pocket knives.

* * *

The dinasours dindn't change, and look what happed to them.

I think that sums up the whole situation right there. I'm making what little effort I can to buy Case knives & support the company, but I won't consider buying those silly commemoratives. And yes, I consider them to be SILLY. That's just my opinion. Forty-four presidential knives?! National monuments? Six or more different Johnny Cash knives? And how many John Deere knives to date? If Case would just get back to the basics, making a good quality, reasonably-priced workingman's knife, I think they'd get through this tough time just fine.

This may sound a little sentimental, but this whole thing reminds me of the comment Ed Harris (as Gene Kranz) makes, " . . . this is gonna be our finest hour."

So many see this time as a time of failure; but for those willing to adapt and change, this may be seen by future generations as their 'finest hour'. When all of this blows over, and it will be over sooner or later, those who kept their priorities straight and made the right decisions will still be standing. They'll be leaner, hungrier, tougher, and more humble . . . but they'll still be standing.

I hope Case is there. I'll be buying another one this week.

thx - cpr

 

[Gmountain]

If Case would just get back to the basics, making a good quality, reasonably-priced workingman's knife, I think they'd get through this tough time just fine.

They already make that kind of knife. How many do you think they could sell? Once you have one, there would be no point in getting another.

 

[jackknife]

They already make that kind of knife. How many do you think they could sell? Once you have one, there would be no point in getting another.

Well for one thing, it would stop the bleeding. When you have a patient that's bleeding to death, you have to stop the flow out. With all those collectables they make, it takes huge amounts of money that they can't afford to be spending right now. All those drums of dye in just about every color of the rainbow costs money. All that bone to be jigged costs money, as well as the man hours to jig it.

Right now, for just a year or two, Case needs to cut the cost of production, and one way to do that is shrink the model line. They have to become more competitive with other companies. They have to go back to getting a share of that mom and pop brick and morter stores instead of the Smoky Mountain knifeworks Frost's and assorted junk catalogue sales. The last flier I just got from SMKW showed pages of different Case collector type of knives.

The nice thing about the workmans knife, is they get used on job sites and get used up, broken, lost, and need to be replaced. The collector John Deer knife goes on a shelf, never gets used, and in bad times few people are buying a new John Deer knife in barnboard bone to go with thier other John Deer knives in barb wire bone, blue coral bone, or whatever the bone of the month was. They have to stop this kind of nonsense. All those different models cost too much to male. Money and proffit can be made up on volume if you make enough of them. And the more you make of something, the cheaper you can make it. If Case streamlined thier line to just some very plain finished working mans pocket knives, in old standard patterns, went after the brick and morter stores, they may survive. Stop spending money on the production of the knife world version of Beanie Babys. By now it should be obvious to the suits at Case, the money ain't coming in the door. Tactics need to change fast.

With the continued sucsess of Canal Street Cutlery, and Queen with thier S&M line, there must still be a viable market for a old fashioned pocket knife. Okay, then make what your competion is surviving off of. Or GEC for that matter. I don't see any of them making collector pockket knves like the Case stuff. I have a sneakng suspission that with the Johnny Cash knives, the John Deere knives, and all of that stuff, Case had shot themselves in the foot with a certain market. The workmen. My friend Tinker is a prime example.

Tinker is a master plummer. He also likes an old fashioned pocket knife out of plain carbon steel. He really uses a knife, cutting wax gasket material and other stuff I have no idea what he does with. When Old Timer pocket knives weren't available anymore, I thought he was gonna cry. When I made mention of Case, he kind of was a bit scornfull and said they aint what they used to be. That was his perception. Just like some people think all Bucks are now made in China, or other misconceptions. Tinker thought all Case's were now stainless steel special collector things now.

Perception is a very dangerous thing. It takes hold and is very difficult to change when people believe it. Case needs to adress the misconseption that they don't make good working knives anymore, because thier life may just depend on the market they let go while in search of the beanie baby money. They need to streamline down to just a handfull of patterns, all with CV, and throw themselves into that working mans market with everything they have. Just like Canal Street came out of the ashes of the Schrade downfall, a new slimmer, hungry, and effciant Case can come out of this. Just like at one time the rough finished iron bolster Russell barlow was the best selling knife in this country, There were other knives that looked better than Russells, were nicer finsihed. But not many that was as good a cutting tool for the money, and that made the difference. They sold like hotcakes. They survived while many of thier competitors fell.

One things for sure, Case is not going to survive by waiting around for the economy to get better, and laying off workers while doing it.

 

[Gmountain]

Right now, for just a year or two, Case needs to cut the cost of production, and one way to do that is shrink the model line. They have to become more competitive with other companies. They have to go back to getting a share of that mom and pop brick and morter stores instead of the Smoky Mountain knifeworks Frost's and assorted junk catalogue sales. The last flier I just got from SMKW showed pages of different Case collector type of knives.

Well, that is why there are layoffs.

With the continued sucsess of Canal Street Cutlery, and Queen with thier S&M line, there must still be a viable market for a old fashioned pocket knife. Okay, then make what your competion is surviving off of. Or GEC for that matter. I don't see any of them making collector pockket knves like the Case stuff. I have a sneakng suspission that with the Johnny Cash knives, the John Deere knives, and all of that stuff, Case had shot themselves in the foot with a certain market. The workmen. My friend Tinker is a prime example.

GEC is almost entirely collector driven. Canal Street is too, I'm guessing. They both have much smaller operations than Case.

Tinker is a master plummer. He also likes an old fashioned pocket knife out of plain carbon steel. He really uses a knife, cutting wax gasket material and other stuff I have no idea what he does with. When Old Timer pocket knives weren't available anymore, I thought he was gonna cry. When I made mention of Case, he kind of was a bit scornfull and said they aint what they used to be. That was his perception. Just like some people think all Bucks are now made in China, or other misconceptions. Tinker thought all Case's were now stainless steel special collector things now.

Does your friend Tinker buy solely on price? Is he willing to buy American if it costs a bit more, or will he happily by Chinese because it is a few dollars cheaper? If he is happily buying Chinese, then he will never buy a Case until it is the same price as Chicom garbage, and the only way for that to happen is for Case to relocate to China. So if your friend Tinker buys on price alone, he is helping to close the Case factory. If hhe is willing to buy a Case, even if it costs a bit more, then great, he should and that would be a good thing.

If price alone is what most people want, then only the collector market will save our knife companies.

Perception is a very dangerous thing. It takes hold and is very difficult to change when people believe it. Case needs to adress the misconseption that they don't make good working knives anymore,

True. This is what killed the American car companies.

Te climate has changed too. Gone are the days when a kid could save up money from mowing lawns and go to the hardware store to buy a pocket knife. Less kids are in Boy Scouts. Now you have to be 18, and kids can't put them in their pockets and go to school. We have raised a generation of people who don't ever really consider owning a pocket knife.

 

[Blues]

Folks, I fear that absent specific information regarding the internal operations at Case that near all of this is speculation without the necessary substance and facts.

What we do know is that there are layoffs at Case. I think it would probably be safer to leave the business model and future plans to those who have the facts to work with.

Those of us who wish to will continue to support the company with future purchases. Those who have no interest in their products and offerings won't. The company will either prosper or decline accordingly.

The discussion of their business model and how to remedy their economic woes is beyond the scope of this forum. (As are politically disparaging or demeaning remarks regarding the source of off-shore products.)