More proof of Gerber's demise...

B

Buck268

Joined
Nov 5, 2006
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Well, back in the fall I broke the framelock on my Gerber Paraframe II (after about a years worth of fairly rigorous use); so I sent it in to their warrenty dept and in a few weeks had a new one. Well, I didn't really trust it after the lock broke like it did (total and sudden failure) so I got a Native from Wally world and the gerber went into the ammo box.

Now, I've been keeping knives in old surplus ammo boxes for years and with a packet or two of desiccant I've never had trouble with anything developing rust of any kind. But this Gerber has developed light surface rust on its Surgical Stainless, 400 series steel :eek: :jerkit: I mean seriously, so they are gonna make a knife out of a fairly stain resistant, give it a poor heat treat, so it can't hold an edge, and screw up the stainless part too? I didn't even know it was possible to screw up that bad. Luckily I don't give a shit about that knife ;)

Here's a pic with a ultra-cheapo box cutter and my SAK tinker, both stored in the same box as the Gerber...

gerber.jpg


Oh yeah, same type of rust all over the handles and pocket clip. With all the trouble this model has given me, from poor edge retention to the freakin lock break on me, I'm pretty sure I'm not buying anymore Gerbers (which is a shame as I have an original gerber multitool from the early 90's which has held up great under all types of use).
 
I had a Gerber multi-tool do pretty much the same thing, right there next to my unaffected Leatherman multi-tool.
 
Looks like it was contaminated by particles of carbon steel which rusted .Rust can then continue into the stainless ! There are ways for the company to prevent /deal with this...Looks minor at this point , cleanit with a polish and oil.
 
Thats plain ole crappy QC. Gerber needs to shape up. They used to be one of my favorite knife companys. I remember my father giving me one saying "this here is a good knife". I guess my anger comes from them kinda breakin my heart slowly. They need to turn thier stuff around, cuz I know people would love to be honored to have there product again. Maybe others feel the way I do, maybe they dont.
 
This is the second time in about a month I've pulled it out and wiped it down with oil. I'm thinking about just leaving it in the snow for a while so I dont worry about it any more!
 
mete said:
Looks like it was contaminated by particles of carbon steel which rusted .Rust can then continue into the stainless ! There are ways for the company to prevent /deal with this...Looks minor at this point , cleanit with a polish and oil.
Click to expand...
That would be my guess as well. Polish stainless with regular (non-stainless) steel wool and you can get this, little rust spots where tiny particles of the steel wool embedded in the stainless .... and then you can watch 'em grow over time. :(
 
It looks like the blade is bead blasted. This can also make a knife more susceptible to rusting as well.

One thing to remember, just because it's stainless, doesn't mean that it's rustless.
 
i had a evo, imo 1 of the worst knives i ever owned.No problems with rust, but it couldnt hold an edge or resharpen at all + the tip bent easily and the blade was always wobbly. It scared me away from lockback folders 4 awhile.The first , and last gerber i buy.
 
sorry i dont know, and the evo is no longer with me .Ill pay more attention to where its made on future purchases.
 
Sorry to hear this.
About ten years ago I bought a Gerber LST that's actually a decent little lockback knife. It cost me considerably less than $20 at the time, and although for some reason it took me a little more work than usual to resharpen, it's still going strong today, though I hardly ever use it anymore.
Hopefully someday they will get back where they were years ago.
Jim
 
Sand or bead blasting causes more trouble than its worth.
Meaning, it creates a wonderfully uniform pored surface which is ripe for breeding rust spots especially when stored away with surrounding environment in which the air content is damp with moisture.
Sometimes rusting troubles develope due to the heat treatment process.
And like skin cancer, no amount of protective coating would prevent a rust build up if not attended to immediately. A bead blasted knife (as with a carbon blade) has to be entirely cleaned of all dirt and grime, and fully dried and oiled/coated with protective material before storage.
 
Dog of war
Please explain to me how steel wool can imbed itself in even a halfway hardened blade.
Bill
 
Bill DeShivs said:
Dog of war
Please explain to me how steel wool can imbed itself in even a halfway hardened blade.
Bill
Click to expand...

Pardon my kibitz, but,
Imbed is possibly the wrong word. But you can get particles of non-stainless from scrubbing with steel wool on the surface of hardened stainless steel and cause rust spots to appear.

Stainless is "stainless" because of the oxide layer on the surface. It forms a barrier to moisture and oxygen. If you have a path through the oxide layer for the moisture and oxygen to get through, the "stainless" steel can rust.

When you scrub stainless steel with steel wool, the oxide layer gets removed. (Depends on how hard you rub.) At the same time, small pieces of the steel wool are rubbed off the steel wool pad. Some of them attach to the surface of the stainless. The steel wool pieces can prevent the oxide layer from reforming perfectly. The imperfections in the resulting imperfect layer become sites for rust.
 
I've shied away from Gerber for a long time now. I used to be a real fan, though. I have a Guardian that I bought almost 20 years ago and it's sitting on my coffee table at home right now in great shape. The tip is a little bent, but it's really thin and I threw it when I was young. Still, the steel seems good and there is zero rust. Well-made sheath and it's what I consider a decent light-use bootknife.

Then I bought a gator. Maybe it was the bead-blasting, but right away the steel looked and felt like crap to me. Looked plastic. It wouldn't keep an edge and I always thought it felt very brittle. I gave it to a buddy who didn't have a knife at the the time (and never used it for anything anyway) and bought a Gerber EZ-out because I wanted something with a clip for EDC. That didn't last very long, same kind of plastic looking steel and about a quarter inch of the tip broke off. I don't remember exactly how that happened, but I've never used knives to pry things with or abuse of the that sort. It was about 10 years ago. I ended up using my dremel to turn the blunt tip into a stubby tanto tip and eventually either gave it away or threw it away.

Still have a pair of original Gerber Multi-Pliers. The sliding mechanism is broken, so I opened them fully and locked down the screws so they don't close anymore. Other than that, the steel is crappy and I don't see myself buying anymore Gerber knives. They did this to themselves and ruined what was a good name.

Let the "fruity-new-age-wannabe-woodsmen-yuppies" buy Gerbers down at the local REI, they'll never need anything more durable than a plastic spork anyway and that's about the quality Gerber seems to be putting out these days.
 
knarfeng said:
Pardon my kibitz, but,
Imbed is possibly the wrong word. But you can get particles of non-stainless from scrubbing with steel wool on the surface of hardened stainless steel and cause rust spots to appear.

Stainless is "stainless" because of the oxide layer on the surface. It forms a barrier to moisture and oxygen. If you have a path through the oxide layer for the moisture and oxygen to get through, the "stainless" steel can rust.

When you scrub stainless steel with steel wool, the oxide layer gets removed. (Depends on how hard you rub.) At the same time, small pieces of the steel wool are rubbed off the steel wool pad. Some of them attach to the surface of the stainless. The steel wool pieces can prevent the oxide layer from reforming perfectly. The imperfections in the resulting imperfect layer become sites for rust.
Click to expand...

Good info, but I've never used steel wool on any knife that wasn't already rusted. Does it actually make the knife rust more? When I have used steel wool on rusted knives I've used WD-40 or gun oil to thoroughly clean the blade with afterwards. Is there a better way to be sure all the particles of steel wool come out?
 
That would happen to pretty much any beadblasted blade though. Happened to my Emerson CQC7 and a few CRKT models that I have.

I'm not defending Gerber but thats not really a Gerber specific issue.

Edit - After re-reading the first post I see now it says that rust is all over the handle and clip as well. Maybe that knife is just cursed:p
 
knarfeng said:
Pardon my kibitz, but,
Imbed is possibly the wrong word. But you can get particles of non-stainless from scrubbing with steel wool on the surface of hardened stainless steel and cause rust spots to appear.

Stainless is "stainless" because of the oxide layer on the surface. It forms a barrier to moisture and oxygen. If you have a path through the oxide layer for the moisture and oxygen to get through, the "stainless" steel can rust.

When you scrub stainless steel with steel wool, the oxide layer gets removed. (Depends on how hard you rub.) At the same time, small pieces of the steel wool are rubbed off the steel wool pad. Some of them attach to the surface of the stainless. The steel wool pieces can prevent the oxide layer from reforming perfectly. The imperfections in the resulting imperfect layer become sites for rust.
Click to expand...


Huh?? I'm no expert but I've always been under the impression that a higher chromium content (maybe in conjunction with more 'free' chromium) is what lended 'stainless' its corrosion resistance.

Now, this oxide layer your talking is definately what happens with aluminum, that I'm pretty sure of. In fact I'll og out on a limb and stretch my memory. Isn't anodizing just creating/enchancing that layer of surface oxidation? I may be wrong, but somebody will chime in that knows.

In any case, I thought 1) more chromium = more stainless and 2) surface oxidation (aluminum oxide) on alum. lends corrosion resistance. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong, because I would have been wrong for a long time!
 
Quoted from Knarfeng
"Stainless is "stainless" because of the oxide layer on the surface. It forms a barrier to moisture and oxygen. If you have a path through the oxide layer for the moisture and oxygen to get through, the "stainless" steel can rust.

When you scrub stainless steel with steel wool, the oxide layer gets removed. (Depends on how hard you rub.) At the same time, small pieces of the steel wool are rubbed off the steel wool pad. Some of them attach to the surface of the stainless. The steel wool pieces can prevent the oxide layer from reforming perfectly. The imperfections in the resulting imperfect layer become sites for rust."

If this were true, then freshly ground stainless steel would be expected to rust and not form an "oxide layer." Perhaps you are thinking of aluminum where this is very true. Aluminum oxidized readily and freshly ground or sanded aluminum will rapidly form an oxide layer, which protects the underlying metal from oxidizing. However, iron oxide is rust, plain and simple. Stainless can be stained or rusted, it just stains less.
 
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