More proof of Gerber's demise...

I have owned and used Gerber knives for years. My first, back when I was in the Army, was a Mk II dagger. I broke it by stupidly thowing it into an old hardwood book case (anger management). There was nothing wrong with the knife. Since then I have owned a Gator lockback, a Utility Bowie, a Silver Trident, and now I recently got their new LMF II, a sharp and superb survival knife designed for our military. Any steel can rust. I sincerely hope Gerber is not going down hill, but I have heard rumors that some of their stuff is now made in China. I'd hate to see them go the way of Schrade. I've had good service from my Gerbers.
 
Chris Mapp said:
It looks like the blade is bead blasted. This can also make a knife more susceptible to rusting as well.

One thing to remember, just because it's stainless, doesn't mean that it's rustless.
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I agree, it's probably the bead blasting that does it. I found similar rust spots on my LST, and it wasn't even stored wet, maybe just a little moisture. I'm hypothsizing that the larger surface area caused by the pits formed from bead blasting either exposes the iron below the patina, or maybe microscopic irregularities in the pits does it.
 
Gerber is not what they once were. it's a shame because they have such a long history of excellent combat tested knives. Shame what buisness and politicing can do.
 
It`s strange to hear about all these complaints regarding Gerber. I have a Sport Axe (circa '00) which I have beaten and beaten and is still in excellent shape and hair shaving sharp. I guess it is just their folder line that need significant QC upgrades, especially since I don`t hear much bitching about their fixed blades.




Curiosity yields evolution...satiety yields extinction.
 
hlee said:
If this were true, then freshly ground stainless steel would be expected to rust and not form an "oxide layer." Perhaps you are thinking of aluminum where this is very true. Aluminum oxidized readily and freshly ground or sanded aluminum will rapidly form an oxide layer, which protects the underlying metal from oxidizing. However, iron oxide is rust, plain and simple. Stainless can be stained or rusted, it just stains less.
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It does rust. That is what forms the oxide layer. And you are quite correct. It forms very quickly.

Carbon steel and stainless both oxidize (rust). With carbon steel, the iron oxide that is formed does not tightly adhere to the surface. So oxygen and water continue to find iron and form iron oxide. The iron oxide continues to slough off and the corrosion process continues.

With stainless steel the iron and chromium combine with the oxygen and water (rust) and form an oxide matrix that IS tightly adhering. It forms a barrier that keeps water and oxygen molecules from getting at iron. So the corrosion process stops after a very short run, leaving an oxide layer that is only a few atoms thick.

We all know that stainless steels are actually stain resistant, not stain free. A lot of that is caused by imperfections in the oxide layer. Where there are imperfections, oxygen and water molecules continue to get at the iron in the steel and form iron oxide. No matrix is perfect in the real world. So even "stainless" steels corrode. I should also add that there are conditions that attack that layer and leave the steel open to corrosion.

What I was talking about with the steel wool is that if you get particles of carbon steel stuck in the oxide matrix as it forms, it creates imperfections or holes in the oxide layer so that oxygen and water molecules can continue to get at the base metal and react with it. So you can get rust spots.

Hope that clarifies my post. I am not a metallurgist, but I've done a fair amount of work with corrosion and corrosion prevention.
 
Funny, I have rust spots on my Bark River Mini-Canadian from slicing a tomato.

I know, tomatoes are a pretty acidic vegetable--and as an aside, I had an allergic reaction to them from eating too many a while back--but I would never log-on and start posting about Bark River's demise!

Of course, it didn't rust in the box. And I agree anyway :D

Gerber is going downhill, has been going downhill, and will not be going uphill anytime soon.

It makes me a little sad, but it's true.
 
Gerber needs to bring back all the good designs they discontinued.Like the Mark I and II the BMF the Bowie etc etc. I could be wrong but things seemed to go down hill for them after Fiskars bought them.
I kick my self for not buy a few Mark II's back when they were still available and relatively cheap. Lately i've been watching for one on ebay but the prices are insane. Back in the day I just figured the Gerber Mark II was a classic design the exemplar of that particular knife type a design that had been around for decades. I figured that it would never go out of production and would always be available like say idaknow the Buck 120....D'oh! ok so thats another knife i miss.lol.
 
Gerber used to have a section on their website on which you could order a custom Gerber tool. There was a selection of tool blades and you could choose which ones you wanted on your tool. Never did it, but I drooled over it. No dinero in the pockets. Sigh.

Problem is that now I am so turned off to Gerbers offerings that even if they turned a new leaf, I still might not believe it. So I would be slow to buy.
 
tholiver said:
Back in the day I just figured the Gerber Mark II was a classic design the exemplar of that particular knife type a design that had been around for decades.
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A world reknowned knife for good reasons. Definately a classic.
 
Knarfeng's description is correct. Below is part of an article taken from the About Chemistry website.

In 1913, English metallurgist Harry Brearly, working on a project to improve rifle barrels, accidentally discovered that adding chromium to low carbon steel gives it stain resistance. In addition to iron, carbon, and chromium, modern stainless steel may also contain other elements, such as nickel, niobium, molybdenum, and titanium. Nickel, molybdenum, niobium, and chromium enhance the corrosion resistance of stainless steel. It is the addition of a minimum of 12% chromium to the steel that makes it resist rust, or stain 'less' than other types of steel. The chromium in the steel combines with oxygen in the atmosphere to form a thin, invisible layer of chrome-containing oxide, called the passive film. The sizes of chromium atoms and their oxides are similar, so they pack neatly together on the surface of the metal, forming a stable layer only a few atoms thick. If the metal is cut or scratched and the passive film is disrupted, more oxide will quickly form and recover the exposed surface, protecting it from oxidative corrosion. (Iron, on the other hand, rusts quickly because atomic iron is much smaller than its oxide, so the oxide forms a loose rather than tightly-packed layer and flakes away.) The passive film requires oxygen to self-repair, so stainless steels have poor corrosion resistance in low-oxygen and poor circulation environments. In seawater, chlorides from the salt will attack and destroy the passive film more quickly than it can be repaired in a low oxygen environment.
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Gerber used to use steels like L-6, and Vascowear. Now what do they use? Surgical steel? These guys are now so far off the map it's doubtfull they'll ever make it back up to a respectfull position in the knife industry.

Some of their old knives bring some decent money.

I used to like Gerber. Now? I wouldn't buy a single knife of theirs. JL
 
I just bought a 1978 Gerber mark II, brand new in box, a truly classic design. The steel used in this knife is hand grnd L6, a quality steel. But I agree, ever since Fiskars took over, Gerber has not been taking pride in their work. I used to love Gerbers, in fact I have about nine of them, including the older ones (clip locks, Mark I, Mark II, Guardian II etc,etc) I am leaning towards other brands such as Benchmade, Ontario, and fallkniven. ( When money allows)


Gerberblades
 
Once they sold out, they started falling fast.

Too many gimicky knives, too few quality components, I have several of the old brass and wood scaled original pocket knives with very very good steel in them, a few MKI's and MKII's and an original Guardian, plus a few of the old cast handled hunting knives, including 8 pixies, (steak knives) and some other odds and ends. I have two original LST's that sit in PSK's
but every one of the newer knives I have tried EXCEPT the EZout in ATS 34 have been junk.

Someone posted that a few of the current standard models were now available in 154 cm and I hope this is true, But it will be LOOOOONNNG time until i try something generic from them.
 
Buck268 said:
Now, I've been keeping knives in old surplus ammo boxes for years and with a packet or two of desiccant I've never had trouble with anything developing rust of any kind. But this Gerber has developed light surface rust on its Surgical Stainless, 400 series steel :eek: :jerkit:
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Gerber isn't what I'd call quality, but there's something else here worth noting. You keep your knives in an ammo box. If the box is air tight, or practically so, then there may be trouble. You see, those desiccant packs work both ways. They not only draw moisture from the air, but also release it under proper environmental conditions. If the packs were full of moisture, they probably released it right into the ammo box, and that's a recipe for rust for you. It's not certain that this happened, maybe not even likely, but it's one possibility.
 
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