Mosaic twisting question.

D

deker

Joined
Nov 14, 2005
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So, I've been playing a bit with mosaic damascus, and I know that there are a few ways of getting the oattern out to the side of a billet. Accordian cutting, tiling, and twisting. What I don't know is how much twist you need to put on a billet to get the pattern out to the side properly with twisting.

Anybody have a clue?

-d
 
Others may correct me if I'm wrong, but when going for a certain pattern, in your case a mosaic, the pattern is on the end of the billet. Twisting the bar will not expose the mosaic pattern.
 
Been doing it for years. Twisting will expose a mosaic pattern. Best if twisted very tight and left a little thick when forging flat. Your pattern will show when you grind in the bevels. I'm working on a large auto right now with twisted mosaic blade.
 
scottickes said:
Others may correct me if I'm wrong, but when going for a certain pattern, in your case a mosaic, the pattern is on the end of the billet. Twisting the bar will not expose the mosaic pattern.
Click to expand...

I know that there's a way to do it. The method is mentioned in passing in Hrisoulas' "The Pattern Welded Blade" and I've seen it in some of Ray Rybar's work as well as Pierre Reverdy's work like this piece.

Just got off the phone with Delbert and the method is as I thought. Twist, resquare and cut a bar out of the center. Sure, you "lose" 2/3 of the steel, but effect is pretty neat.

The bit I'm looking for is rate of twist. After talking w/ Del I think I've settled on 1 twist per inch for this project...we'll see how it goes.

I'll post pics when it's done....

-d
 
Don Hanson III said:
Been doing it for years. Twisting will expose a mosaic pattern. Best if twisted very tight and left a little thick when forging flat. Your pattern will show when you grind in the bevels. I'm working on a large auto right now with twisted mosaic blade.
Click to expand...

C'Mon Don...You of all people can't post something like this without pictures :D

-d
 
Older photos, couldn't find a close up of steel but you can get the idea. These were just twisted tight and forged flat. You will show more pattern by cutting a bar out of the middle of a billet like you said above but I don't like to stand at the saw for that long:)

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one full twist per inch will show your pattern every half inch. once forwards and once backwards or first one end and then the other. If it is a very tight pattern that may be too tight
 
Woohoo! Thanks Don! That gives a guy some hope.


burke531 said:
one full twist per inch will show your pattern every half inch. once forwards and once backwards or first one end and then the other. If it is a very tight pattern that may be too tight
Click to expand...

It's just a sort of Odin's Eye pattern. Nothing too spectacular, but I want to get the "mosaic look" even though I don't have quite enough steel left in this billet after a tiling failure today to accordian cut what I have left.

Thanks for the advice guys!

-d
 
Don that pattern is GEORGEOUS! (all of them, but particularly the blade on the sunfish folder)

-Page
 
That sunfish folder is sweet Don!
Sorry, Just had to say that......interesting thread.
Mace
 
Not to go off on a slight tangent, but here I go off on a slight tangent:D Is is possible to get the pattern of a "crushed W" billet to show without tiling, accordioning or twisting and forging flat a la firestorm/explosion patttern? I supsect that if the billet was wide and thick enough and the intended blade small like a folder blade, you could perhaps take a thick slice off the end and forge it out, but what about regular sized blades? Could you make a big billet with extra layers (maybe one extra stack before you flip and crush) and do the same thing with the end slice?
 
Man, I'm sorry to OT this thread but Don, your knives are top shelf buddy :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Those sunfish folders are killer and have been my favorite since having first seen them years ago........ great work Don :thumbup::thumbup: Now, back to the mosaic question..... ;)
 
Joe, I have taken a slice off the end of a mosaic billet and forged a folder blade from it but have to go slow and work it very hot because they sometimes want to come apart. Same with flattening out an accordian, should be done at a welding heat with flux.

Thanks, guys!

Here's a couple with accordian blades.

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Not to go off on a slight tangent, but here I go off on a slight tangent Is is possible to get the pattern of a "crushed W" billet to show without tiling, accordioning or twisting and forging flat a la firestorm/explosion patttern? I supsect that if the billet was wide and thick enough and the intended blade small like a folder blade, you could perhaps take a thick slice off the end and forge it out, but what about regular sized blades? Could you make a big billet with extra layers (maybe one extra stack before you flip and crush) and do the same thing with the end slice?
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Click to expand...

There are other ways to get the look you want with w's. One is to turn the billet on end and upset and draw it out so that the w's are on the face. This will strtech the patter in the direction that you are drawing the billet so you have to compensate for this when making the billet. Another is to square the w's into a bar that is 1.5x1.5 inches and however long cut it into cubes grind and etch the faces so you can match up the patterns and reweld so that the pattern is on the faces. Don't worry about crushing the pattern welding it will come back into shape when you draw the rewelded billet out into a bar. And the last and easiest is to forge a bar of w's and forge in only the profile of the knife then just grind in the bevels and the w's will just show up like magic.
 
jdm61 said:
Not to go off on a slight tangent, but here I go off on a slight tangent:D Is is possible to get the pattern of a "crushed W" billet to show without tiling, accordioning or twisting and forging flat a la firestorm/explosion patttern? I supsect that if the billet was wide and thick enough and the intended blade small like a folder blade, you could perhaps take a thick slice off the end and forge it out, but what about regular sized blades? Could you make a big billet with extra layers (maybe one extra stack before you flip and crush) and do the same thing with the end slice?
Click to expand...

If you take a look again at a good, clear, firestorm blade, you'll see that what we're talking about is exactly what happens in a firestorm pattern. To get it to really be identifiable as W's though you have to forge very thick and grind thin to expose the pattern inside the billet.

I did a little googling and came across this image that may help clear things up. Take a look at the pattern and you'll clearly see W's in the twist.

-d
 
This is a cool thread Deker and there are some great tips here.

Don, as always, those knives are just plain awesome. I haven't seen one of Don's knives yet that wasnt; worth a pinky or toe.
;)
 
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