Most grit resistant lock

P

Pyromancer

Joined
Oct 30, 2005
Messages
343
Hello,

I was using my BM710 at the beach the other night (cutting wood, bait, line etc) and got sand in it. The lock got gritty, and stayed gritty, even with a rinse in saltwater. It was still functional, but had me a little concerned. Would a lockback, liner, ball lock, or compression handle dirt/sand any better? Recommend a model? Something larger isn't a big deal, I carry Queen slipjoints for the day to day office stuff. I like wide/girthy handles for better purchase in torquey cuts. I'm considering the Military or Stretch 2. Sals original purpose for the Military and the Stretch 2's seemingly wider 3D handles are attractive. Are there any plans for an H1 Military?

D
 
Yes, there are in the making plans for a full H1 military, yellow G-10 handles, and fully stainless hardwear!






In my all to real dreams. :(


Concerning grit, the ZT MUDD (0500) folder has a sealed pivot blocking out everything.

On the Spyderco lineup I would consider the Military, or one of the backlock Salts. Some of the more complex locks (CBBL) would probably retain dirt and grit rather then allow it to be blown out (like on a liner lock, compression lock, or backlock).

Recommended models:
Military
Paramilitary
Stretch 2 FRN
Pacific Salt
 
Josh K said:
Yes, there are in the making plans for a full H1 military, yellow G-10 handles, and fully stainless hardwear!
Click to expand...

This in a conventional black, would be ideal. Even if FRN to offset cost, but maybe that would be moving into the regular Salt's market share


Josh K said:
Concerning grit, the ZT MUDD (0500) folder has a sealed pivot blocking out everything.

On the Spyderco lineup I would consider the Military, or one of the backlock Salts. Some of the more complex locks (CBBL) would probably retain dirt and grit rather then allow it to be blown out (like on a liner lock, compression lock, or backlock).

Recommended models:
Military
Paramilitary
Stretch 2 FRN
Pacific Salt
Click to expand...


I'll have to look into the ZT MUDD. I had always considered it to be more a folding prybar, so the sealed pivot info is news to me.
I just got a serrated Pacific Salt for a buddy, and it's faring quite well. I'm a little concerned about sand/grit getting into the backspring, but maybe the tolerances are tight enough to prevent it.

Thanks
D
 
Pyromancer said:
I'll have to look into the ZT MUDD. I had always considered it to be more a folding prybar, so the sealed pivot info is news to me.
I just got a serrated Pacific Salt for a buddy, and it's faring quite well. I'm a little concerned about sand/grit getting into the backspring, but maybe the tolerances are tight enough to prevent it.

Thanks
D
Click to expand...

Sand / grit may get in there, but it won't affect the reliability of the lock. Back locks, liner locks, and compression locks are all very reliable in the presence of grim, dirt, and other gunk.

The only reason I mentioned the MUDD was because the sealed pivot will ensure no dirt or sand gets in there, so you have a constant smooth opening / closing. It is quite the folding prybar though.
 
Josh K said:
Sand / grit may get in there, but it won't affect the reliability of the lock. Back locks, liner locks, and compression locks are all very reliable in the presence of grim, dirt, and other gunk.
Click to expand...

No more reliable than the Axis-lock.
 
What is the basis for you're bold letters?

Do you see "Hawk lock" in the quoatation of "Back locks, liner locks, and compression locks".
 
Last edited:
orthogonal1 said:
No more reliable than the Axis-lock.
Click to expand...

The axis lock relies on two wire springs in order to properly move the lock into position. It is a nice lock no doubt but more susceptible to wear issues in my opinion based on the greater number of parts involved. I have read reports of springs failing on the Axis lock. That is not to say liner locks or other lock styles do not fail as well. It seems some people tend to overlook the fact that the Axis relies on 2 fairly small springs to be functional though.
 
orthogonal1 said:
What is yhe basis for you're bold letters?

Do you see "Hawk lock" in the quoatation of "Back locks, liner locks, and compression locks".
Click to expand...

Considering the MUDD folder uses a HAWK lock, and I was talking about all four in my posts, I wasn't sure which you were talking about.

The purpose (not basis) for my bold letters were to draw attention to an obviously sarcastic statement. Considering the large print and bold, you're basically shouting on a forum. Pipe down a bit and back up your opinion (please). Really shouldn't have to ask twice when you try to shed attention by analyzing my replies and previous posts instead of just explaining yourself.
 
My experience w/ various locks getting dirty, cruddy, gummed up while spending time in the field as us army infantry, camping, and fishing...

Lockback-
Old Endura: fiber resin clip- near perfect function even when dirty. One must clear lint, sand, debris out of notch. Action of blade opening when dirty gives a gritty feel, but the knife will still open.

Steel Handle Police- when dirty w/ sand the knife sometimes will not open w/out two hands and/or cleaning it out. Field knife use could be affected by this.

Ball Lock-
DeAllara Drop Point- ming65 buried his in sand, took it out of the dirt, and the knife still opened. Pictures are in the Review section. I did the same to the knife in dirt, not sand, and it locked open but was, obviously, gritty to open.

Compression Lock-
Paramilitary, Gunting, 2 Temp. Jr.'s- Always locked open when dirty during fishing excursions (bank fishing in Missouri, Georgia, and Texas). Gritty opening annoying, but knife still serviceable.

Axis Lock-
Snody 420, McHenry Williams 710- Omega spring broke twice on 420 during regular usage over a year. Springs broke in a short space of time. First spring broke, sent it off to BM, they fixed it, second spring broke soon after. Sent it back again, BM reconditioned the knife to make it work. It works now flawlessly, but I don't carry it much (handle too thick).

Liner Lock-
Snody Gravitator- thick liner lock. Have got it very dirty fishing and never a problem locking up or opening. Easy to wash out in the field due to thick bronze washers and open design.

Summation- Steel Police only knife that wouldn't open when really gunked up w/ sand. All knives mentioned above opened and locked when dirty. The lockbacks needed the notch to be free of large debris, but that's easy enough.

bob7
 
chris in mo said:
The axis lock relies on two wire springs in order to properly move the lock into position. It is a nice lock no doubt but more susceptible to wear issues in my opinion based on the greater number of parts involved. I have read reports of springs failing on the Axis lock. That is not to say liner locks or other lock styles do not fail as well. It seems some people tend to overlook the fact that the Axis relies on 2 fairly small springs to be functional though.
Click to expand...

I like the Axis lock for it's smoothness, one-handed opening/closing, and strength. The weakness you see in the springs is a little overexaggerated, as I believe the lock is still fully functional with only one omega spring in play. In general everyday use, the benefits far outweigh the negatives. However, when sand gets in the "button slots" it is difficult to clear out in the field. Especially as the axis buttons slide back, and then forward within the slots when opening the blade. A few grains of sand stuck in the locking mechanism are enough to make the action feel noticeably different. The problem may very well be inherent to all similar designs. Given the "self-clearing" ability of liner/frame locks (openness, no hiding spots for sand, and the liner/frame "sweeps" across the blade/liner contact point), it may well be the best lock for the conditions. I wonder how the back lock fares.

Thanks
D
 
Framelocks, whether Reeve style or Spyderco Compression as on the ATR, have to be the most grit resistant. No springs to get clogged with crud. The lockbar will tend to sweep any crud on the engagement surface out of its way. No space between a liner and scale for crud to make closing impossible. No other nooks and crannies for crud to clog. Any lock which relies on springs to keep it engaged will be less reliable under adverse conditions. The smaller and weaker the springs, the less I'd trust it.

I were going to carry a knife at the beach, I'd opt for a fixed blade. If I absolutely had to carry a folder there, in spite its of being "wrong handed" for me, I'd carry my RIL Sage.

Paul
bar_02.gif

My Personal Website - - - - - - A Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting - - - - - - Kiwimania
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
Spyderco Collector # 043 - - WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam
 
Have to agree with the Deacon...open back frame lock is least likely to jam up with crud and is easy to clean out. Crud between blade and frame can be stroked out with stiff paper or piece of birch bark.
 
I agree with Lycosa who agrees with Paul. :D

except I would never use a RIL Sage, especially around water, dirt, grime, because it's smooth handles would be dangerously slippery
 
5.56 said:
I agree with Lycosa who agrees with Paul. :D

except I would never use a RIL Sage, especially around water, dirt, grime, because it's smooth handles would be dangerously slippery
Click to expand...

How about a half Ti, half CF/G10 framelock for handle purchase?
I think I may have just fanned the fire a little...:D

D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top