Most Reliable Shotgun Type? Best Cartridge?

C

coote

Joined
Apr 3, 2006
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We don't have bears down here. All the discussion on other threads about defence against bears etc has got me thinking. I may well want to travel in the American wilderness one day, so I may as well start thinking about what (if any) firearm we should carry in the party. As a foreigner I may not be allowed to possess a gun, but fortunately I have a brother who is a US Citizen so he should be able to bring one along.

If I had to pick just one firearm to depend upon, I would not hesitate in selecting an ex-military Lee-Enfield .303 British. These have been proven as a hugely reliable weapon. Provided the barrel is clear, the action clean and lubricated, and the rimmed cartridges are properly loaded into the 10-shot magazine there is virtually no chance of a malfunction. I have fired hundreds of rounds through these wonderful bits of machinery.... in hunting, competitive target shooting, and simply enjoying myself. I have personally known servicemen and hunters who also attest to the quality, accuracy and reliability of the military Lee-Enfield.

Anyway... if I come to North America I am unlikely to bring my .303, and I am unlikely to buy one over there and travel around with it. Even if I could find one, I would not be able to put the time into testing it and sighting it in... and selecting the right ammo. So a 12 bore is an obvious choice. My main objective would not be hunting. I have no desire to kill a bear, especially seeing I couldn't make use of the meat while travelling. I'd be tempted to bowl something smaller that could be eaten in a meal or two if that was permitted. And I'm sure a shotgun would be adequate for that purpose.

I have owned several shotguns, and none have impressed me as being particularly tough or reliable. I've never had a misfire or a jammed ejector or anything, it is just that the ones I've seen seem a bit flimsy. Dang, you cant even practically strip the action of my double for cleaning and lubrication.

The old big game hunters of Africa faced some fairly dangerous animals. From what I've read it seems that a double-barrelled rifle was one of the most popular weapons. Two quick shots available with minimal chance of a jam. So I've been thinking that perhaps a double barrelled 12 gauge could be the thing to go for.

So ..... what is the best shotgun mechanism to select when the main criteria is absolute reliability? Single, double, side by side, under and over, semi-auto, pump action or bolt action? Are there any doubles that have actions that you can easily strip and clean? What type operates best in freezing weather? What would you select for a shotgun if your life depended on it in conditions where it would suffer all sorts of weather and shock damage?

And what is the recommended best load for the likes of bears at close range? Big buckshot? Rifled slugs? What choke size is the best for the optimum load - open cylinder?

If you do recommend a particular style / brand of gun or a load, I'd really like to read why you are making the recommendation.

I'm out of the district tomorrow, but I look forward to reading any comments with great interest. Many thanks in advance for your thoughts......
Coote
 
well.....I'm a fan of the doubles for the perceived simplicity. And I like the autos for the rapid fire. But, the one shotgun that sticks with me and never gets traded or sold is my Remington 870P. Mossberg 500 series are nice guns as well.

Here in North America the Rem. 870 is about as ubiquitous as it gets. Plenty of aftermarket doo-dads and a long, solid reputation. Cheap too.

Look for an old used Wingmaster or Police model. Find one that looks beat to hell but still works. 870s are hard to kill and the best deal will be something that looks like Mad Max used it but still functions fine.

My current wish is for an old beater Wingmaster with a vent-rib cut to 18" and a big gold bead. I could do it for less than $200 if I actually took the time to go look for one.

For bear slugs look at Brenneke.
 
I carry a Mossberg 590 with the marine finish for AK wilderness trips (mostly brown bear country). I've found Mossbergs to be reliable. I also like Remington 870s. I have a Winchester 1200 Defender that is smooth and reliable too. I prefer pump actions for rough wilderness conditions, although I also have a Benelli M1 Super 90 semi auto that hasn't given me any problems in the field. VERY fast too.

For ammo, go with slugs for bear. Best I have found is from www.dixieslugs.com. Terminator for rifled barrels, Tusker for smoothbores like my 590. Second best would probably be Rottweil Brenneke slugs.

DancesWithKnives
 
+2 for the Remington 870. Almost all law enforcement agencys use the 870. Reliable and idiot proof. We have some at work that are over 25 years old and used all the time for training and never a problem with them.

Mike
 
Remington or Mossberg, both reliable and affordable. Check em both out and decide which one suits you best.
 
When i was gunsmithing full time the Mossberg 500 was absolutely the least frequent in the repair rack.
 
Remington 870 number 10,000,000 just rolled off the line I believe.

Hard to argue with 10 million made.

Doc
 
Ok Besides the 870 (only so I don't kick myself for selling mine),

what is the most economical 12 guage that has optional barrells. I want a super short barrell to keep around the house, and then something I can put a longer barrel on and pop 3 inch magnums in to shoot the skunks wood ducks, and turkeys down at the river.
 
The Benelli M-1 Super-90 and the Ithaca Model 37 (pump) with the factory extended magazine and a Choate folder on it.
 
This has been educational. I am doing some work in trade for the Remington 870 Marine Magnum and it has been awhile since I've had a shotgun. I'd like to read more on ammo choices as well.
 
Joezilla said:
Ok Besides the 870 (only so I don't kick myself for selling mine),

what is the most economical 12 guage that has optional barrells. I want a super short barrell to keep around the house, and then something I can put a longer barrel on and pop 3 inch magnums in to shoot the skunks wood ducks, and turkeys down at the river.
Click to expand...

The Mossberg 500. Mine came with the 28" barrel and 3 choke tubes. I contacted Mossberg and they let me exchange the long barrel (still new) for a 20" and keep my choke tubes. No charge to me other than shipping one way. How's that for customer service.
You can keep the long barrel and buy a 18.5" for well under $100.
 
Alaskan travel calls for an anti-bear shotgun. Or rifle.

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Canada? I dunno. It won't be a pistol, though.

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The Lower 48 states? All you need is a nice SAK in your pocket. If you are on BLM land in California, you need a .22 rifle or pistol for some pleasant, informal plinking.

The bear threat is somewhat overstated in the Lower 48. I've been all over the Sierra Nevada, and haven't even seen the first mountain lion, and only a couple of black bears, which fled.

Good luck with your trip. When you have your itinerary nailed down, you should post it and have lunch with some local board members. Anyone here would love to talk knives and guns with you. They can even give you a few hints on what to see nearby.

CHEERS
 
I have owned a Rem 870, Win 1300, and a Moss 500 (still have this one). Of the three I prefer the mossberg soley for the placement of the safety and slide release.

I bought my 500 (used) back in 1992 and have put several thousands of shells through it. My one problem was a roll pin holding one extractor sheared, allowing the extractor to wedge itself between the bolt and receiver wall.Locked the action closed.

Easy fix just stripped the action and had both extractor pins replaced. This happened about ten years ago. No problems since.

My shotgun (with its 18.5" barrel) seems to like Remmington #1 buck (my HD load) and does well with Brenneke KO rifled slugs.

I don't hunt so for fun I shoot whichever field or game load is cheapest. With both the 18.5" and 28" barrel.
 
I hiked in some thick forest land last year at Glacier National Park. I felt uneasy, knowing there were Bears there and rightfully so. The next day I spotted two grizzlies while driving. Glacier is stunning, would be a nice visit.
 
anyone have a 500 you can sell me?
 
The the OP:

+1 on the SMLE, my uncle has a sporterized version of one and I love it, hopefully it will be mine someday. I wish I had been around to score one of these at the prices I heard you used to be able to get them for. All the ones I see today are in really rough shape or else really expensive.

If you still wanted to go with a rifle, Mosin Nagants are still widely avaliable and extremely affordable in the States. You can often find them on sale at big chain sporting goods stores for under 100 dollars (I got both of mine for around 80). Their 7.62x54R round is a beast, and in Russia they consider this cartridge overkill for hunting anything but bear(polar bear included). I'm sure they're using these for bear defense in Siberia. There are a couple of carbine variations or you could just buy the regular length one, chop the barrel and throw it into an aftermarket stock (also cheap) and have a great solid rifle that will withstand a ton of abuse.

As for shotguns:

If you want a pump action I would say either a Mossberg 500 or 590 (the marine coat would likely be nice if you're gonna be around salt water, but my 500 with only a bluing did fine on a rainy trip I took in northern Michigan in October).

But I would say the most reliable would be a single shot or double barreled break action gun. NEF and H & R are both good makers with affordable options (important if you weren't planning on bringing the gun home with you). I've seen short barreled coach guns for sale lately at some of the big sporting goods stores, that's also an option. If I had to pick a bombproof shotgun that would see alot of abuse and bad conditions but could still be counted on I would go with a single shot break action from a quality maker. The tradeoff is the capacity, with a pump you can shoot faster.

I would say stick with cylinder bore, and go with the biggest nastiest slugs you can find, maybe throw a couple of buckshot rounds in there. I like to have a couple of buck shot in first and then slugs behind it but usually I'm also concerned with running into 2 legged predators as well. If you're out in the middle of nowhere a tube full of slugs would be fine.

My uncle has done some hunting and fishing in AK, and he said all the guides had 12 G Magnum pumps loaded with slugs. You have to figure that these guys have a clue what they're doing, so maybe that's the route you should go.

So I would likely take my mossberg 500 and the nastiest slugs I could find. If total reliability is more important to you than magazine capacity, a single shot may be the way to go for you. You could even step up to a 10 gauge in a single shot, my uncle (all of the three uncles I've mentioned are different people) has a H & R 10 G that is a beast.

To Joezilla:

I would say also go with mossberg, swapping out the barrels is super easy and extra barrels are cheap. Check local big box chains for good deals (especially now before and after the holidays, also check the pawnshops after the holidays). My buddy scored a nice mossberg at wallyworld last january for cheap.
 
Joezilla said:
Ok Besides the 870 (only so I don't kick myself for selling mine),

what is the most economical 12 guage that has optional barrells. I want a super short barrell to keep around the house, and then something I can put a longer barrel on and pop 3 inch magnums in to shoot the skunks wood ducks, and turkeys down at the river.
Click to expand...

Mossberg/Maverick pumps. When I bought my Moss 500, it came with a 28" fixed choke barrel and a 18" home defense barrel. The combo costs about $250 new here in the evil State of CA where guns are supposedly forbidden, practically blackmarket items that go for a premium. They're likely even cheaper in more gun friendly States. Barrels can be had for cheap and are easy to swap. Perfectly reliable. Mavericks are the economy line. AFAIK, they have a different trigger group/safety, but everything else seems the same.
 
I have a browning BPS, which I love to death. The bottom ejection is not a combat action, but rather a hunting action I have taken more than mu fair share of pheasants, ducks, quail, and doves. My BPS is smoother than any 870, i have used.

For woodsbummin, I have an old Stevens bolt-action, which is lighter than a pump.

The mossberg 590 is yet another choice to look at.
 
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