most versatile grinder?

joncevans,
It's difficult to tell someone what they should choose, obviously. I probably sounded sarcastic when I'm just trying to give you sound info....I am prone to sounding gruff. Check my avatar...I'm a jackass! :) I don't mean to actually come off that way...

My first grinder was a 3x24 Sears beltsander I mounted face up and burned out in 3 knives. I bought a Bader2, perhaps $700 in 1981. There were a couple cheaper grinders, but I knew I was going to stick with it. 5 years ago I bought a KMG and didn't realize how crappy that Bader wa suntil then, even. I still have the bader and use it for some stuff, though.

Another option to at least get your feet wet is to consider a cheapo 1x42/disc combination from someplace like Home Depot or Lowes, about $129. You can get a decent selection of belts from a place like barbkat.com. Try a few small-bladed knives so you don't get discouraged and it'll tell you if it's even something that ineterests you.

If you actually get into this, you'll find that a good grinder is worth it. You'll also find out that a grinder is only one small part of the total money you end up spending. A small part.

If you search on "Grizzly" you will find a plethora of threads with this very same discussion. It is a common question from beginners and I am in complete agreement with you that your initial purchase is daunting and needs to be well considered.

Good luck with your decision! :)
 
I'll leave this after one analogy. I play guitar a bit. I know many people who started playing on cheap crap guitars and struggled, not knowing that the instrument in itself was being an impediment because they had to battle it. When they bought themselves a good guitar, much more expensive than that initial junker, they almost invariably said, "Oh, man, I wish I'd have started with a good guitar. It's a lot easier to play and I'd have progressed faster."

A good tool sure makes a skill task easier.
 
Thanks fitzo I just thought I might have came across as being unappreciative of everyones advice. That is not the case at all, belive me I am soaking in a lot of info from several directions. Blade forums is important to me, there are a lot of my kind of people in here. I just want to make sure I dont step on toes, or offend my new friends....

I came in here with the liking for a grizzly, and I'm kind of still leaning that way I guess. I havnt ssen the ones you were talking about at home depot, but our home depot has a lot to be desired. The Kmg is a good looking machine, and if Im able to stick with it I would probably end up with one some day...
 
fitzo said:
I'll leave this after one analogy. I play guitar a bit. I know many people who started playing on cheap crap guitars and struggled, not knowing that the instrument in itself was being an impediment because they had to battle it. When they bought themselves a good guitar, much more expensive than that initial junker, they almost invariably said, "Oh, man, I wish I'd have started with a good guitar. It's a lot easier to play and I'd have progressed faster."

A good tool sure makes a skill task easier.
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Thats true fitzo... I can barely play a radio, much less a guitar....I do know what you mean about a cheap tool verses a well made one..
 
I think you will be happy with what a Grizzly can do for you. You can learn a lot using that machine. If it is the first grinder you've ever purchased, you'll be deleriously happy regardless, because you'll be hogging metal and making knives. :)

Enjoy the journey! :) Be careful with that buffer side...it's the single most dangerous tool in a knifemaking shop.
 
The problem with a Grizz or other cheap grinder is that if all goes well you will unpack it set it up, turn it one, and immediately realize what an incredible, versatile, tool this is, and wonder immediately why you didn't pay out the extra few hundred for the KMG.

If you want to make a KMG, and have the minimal tools required, use a real contact wheel probably from KMG folks, then go ahead. You will save maybe 2-300 bucks. That's worth it if you can handle the job. I think If I needed a second one I would just build it, but part of the reason is because I can profile the parts on my KMG.

But this tool will immediately reward you so unless you really can't aford a good one, I think a cheap one is a false economy and will make a beginer's learning job harder.

I also think that for what cheap VS motors cost in the US, you would be nuts to use anything else on a grinder. So that rules out all the integral motor, fixed speed, cheapos.

You can easily stop the 1.5 HP leeson I have on my grinder. I don't believe running more horses heats the metal up more. With quality belts it just swallows metal. There will always be heat, but with a powerful motor you can lean into, with a coarse agressive belt, it is controlable and fast. If you think otherwise, maybe you bought the wrong grinder.

A really good grinder will do some stuff you would otherwise need a mill or lathe for, or tubbing coper, etc... It leverages just about everything in the shop.
 
joncevans, as some of these fine people have suggested. I personally will be placing an order for a coote grinder, today actually! I too am a newbie and leary about spending my ducketts on meself. Wish I also could afford a KMG but I'm also sure that the coote will be more than I can keep up with for a good long while. What sold me(other than the cost) is that some really fine knifemakers on this site have had, and are still using the coote for 10 years or so. by the by are you going to forge or do stock removal? Keeping in mind regardless which method there will be stock removal involved?
 
Well guys I wanted advice, and opinions, and it looks like you guys came thru for me. Overall it seems the kmg is the best way to go if a fella can swing it. Coote seems to come in second place, as a decent grinder, with years of service availible. And last but not least Grizzly comes in on the low end. Now its up to me to decide on how to spend the money. ( no pressure right )....

I have my WSK Beck up for auction on ebay, and its ending in a few hrs... What ever it goes for, if at all will probably determine my choice of grinders..

Again thanks for all of the input...
 
Alot of it depends on how serious you are about knifemaking. I started out with a 4x36 belt sander.:jerkit: Then went to a 2x48 belt grinder. Now having a "real" grinder, a KMG, the other two are a joke. Don't get me wrong, I still use both of them for other jobs, but if you want to make knives the right way, you need the right tool for the job. Buy the best you can afford.
Scott
 
I went through these stages before getting my KMG:
Kit making with hand tools
Files and sandpaper
1X30 Delta grinder
2X42 Crafstman

If I knew then what I did now, I'd have got the KMG first! It paid for itself in short order. It is built like a TANK, too. Anyone who has dropped a tooling arm on their foot will tell you that....the arm is solid 1.5X1.5" thick steel.

Every night I want to kiss it good night and tell it what a good boy its been. :D
 
So guys if I do go with a kmg grinder, what is a good price, and where is the best place to buy?
 
fitzo said:
joncevans,

Your initial inquiry was regarding what had the most versatility. People answered that sincerely and accurately. The Grizzly cited is an entry level 2x72 grinder. Lots of people make lots of knives on them. It goes real fast @ 3450RPM, too fast in some makers' estimations. It has limitations in left-hand access for hollow grinding, somewhat alleviated by buying the 10" wheel option. If you want a smalll wheel attachment, I've seen one fabricated in a foto, but you won't find one to buy. The platen doesn't have the beef that something like the KMG does, but you could change it to be a bit better.

The bottom line is you get what you pay for. The Grizzly will work for you, especially if you don't have experience with the other machines. That said, there is a reason it is a fraction of the price of the top line machines. Were you to stick with knifemaking, you would probably end up with a higher-end machine. Nonetheless, the Grizzly would probably continue to have a place in your shop.

There is just no inexpensive high-end grinder available for purchase or people would be using them in their shops, too. ;) Compare it to a Chevy Cavalier and a Caddy CTS. Both'll get you where you're going, but it just isn't the same.
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Just wanted to bring these thoughts back up. I've been through the whole "false economy" route like most of the rest of these guys have. I think what it comes down to is this: If you're going to make more than a couple of knives spending the couple grand up front to get what you really need is money in the bank. If you're just wondering whether you want to make knives then buying a Grizzley or similar is a decent way to test the waters and have a useful tool available down the road for all kinds of other stuff.

I still have the cheaper grinders I bought initially and they have duties in my shop. But I wouldn't trade the B3 for anything - except a KMG. I'd have bought a KMG originally had I known about it and saved a couple hundred dollars. The KMG platen is far more refined than the one that comes with the B3 and Rob's tool rests make far more sense for knife makers. You get more for your money buying a KMG than a Bader.

If you just want to test the waters, go for a less expensive machine; if you find you like making knives start saving your money again! :D

You know, you really can't go too wrong buying tools...
 
One more thing. If I missed this in one of the earlier posts please accept my apologies.

If you're going to make knives, you really, really want variable speed and at least 2hp. Otherwise, you're just going to have to make the switch later when it'll cost more. The 1.5 hp motor on my B3 just doesn't have the huevos I often want.
 
Seems like my 1hp motor statements have been shot full of holes.
Ah well, we live and learn.:foot: Best thing that can happen to a theory or statement when you put it out there is to have it shot full of holes, if it still floats, it is good, if it sinks, you learn something.
Too many big names have posted here for me to argue against them.:o
I am not feeling sorry for myself, please believe me. That is just too pathetic if one wants to learn. Sometimes the truth hurts but it also sets you free, no point in living in the dark like a mushroom, feed on s**t and expect to grow.
I am a newbie and have to use what I have.
I am still learning to control this 1hp puppy, it is more forgiving than a big biting hog. Anyway, the fact that it is home made will enable me to seek out a bigger motor and fit it no problem when finances and experience have improved.:D
Take care,

Mike
 
Hey sorry man, I wasn't trying to shoot anything full of holes! I confess to not having read all of the previous posts thoroughly.
 
No problem Dave, I meant what I said, and DEFINITELY no self pity.
I have never seen you knowingly offend anyone on the forums.

Mike:thumbup:
 
Two of my belt grinders came with 1hp AC motors from the factory. I never felt underpowered with them and can grind blades pretty fast. I can profile a blade faster on a belt grinder than most people can using a bandsaw.

I converted all my grinders to dc variable speed , 2 with 1 1/2hp motors, 1 with a 1hp, but I use that one for small wheel grinding only.
I can bog one down if I'm using the vertical front platen and really push the material into it.

The trick is to use the proper belts and let the abrasives do their job. You'd be amazed at how fast you can grind blade bevels at low speed and light pressure.

Just as a test one day, I had 5 blades all profiled, drilled for handle pins, parallel centerline marks, etc.

I tapered the tangs and then proceeded to grind the bevels at about 30% power. It took me about 20 minutes or less to do all five knives. I've done a lot better in the past as far a quantity for equal time.

The thing is, It didn't slow the grinder down when pushing the blade into the wheel and it was a lot easier on my bare fingers as far as heat goes.

I was amazed to watch just how fast slow speed, coupled with the proper belt(in this case a 40 grit 977 3-M ceramic) and light pressure removed material.
Let the abrasive do the job and save some wear and tear on both you and the machine. Just another way.:eek:
 
You can grind 5 knives in 20 mins!
Heck, that is what it takes me rough one out to the point that I can start hand rubbing with 220:D
Need a student Mike?:cool:

Mike
 
miden said:
You can grind 5 knives in 20 mins!
Heck, that is what it takes me rough one out to the point that I can start hand rubbing with 220:D
Need a student Mike?:cool:

Mike
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Back in the mid 80's I did three times+ that in roughly about the same amount of time, all 8-9" blades(13-14"OAL) too. I doubt i could do it today even if my back were OK.:eek:

They were just ground ready for heat treat, BTW, not finish ground. I also got a call from the heat treater about stressing the steel as they all warped and he had to straighten them.;)

If you get down this way, drop on by.
 
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