Most want to be knifemakers more than they want to make knives.

Incoming!!!!!
The trend that I am seeing is that some newer makers seem to have some sort of entitlement mentality. They don't want to travel to visit another maker to learn the pit falls of knife making before jumping in. I think they see the flavor of the month and all of their fanboys go goo goo ga ga whenever a new knife comes out and they see all of the attention that the maker gets. They do not realize that it has taken some of these makers 25 years to become an overnight success. They want to post the same question on every forum and ask the most simple questions. What size screw do I need?. How long does the screw need to be?, What size driver do I need to turn the screw? Which way do I turn the screw?? These are the same guys who post a thread about how they melted the knife in heat treat totally destroying the steel and finish the knife anyway and post it up for sale a few days later.
They do not feel the need to do any research. They think they can pop into a knife show where others have spent $500.00 on a table and another $1,500.00 for show expenses and just show a few knives around;) I've seen some who bring more knives to show around;) than I bring for my show inventory.
Some, before they can even make a decent knife have fan clubs, patches, stickers, websites, a clothing line etc.
They quit their job after selling a handful of knives and six months later are sitting there wondering what in the hell happened to their fan club.
Like Jason said, they are in love with the idea of being a knife maker without actually doing very much for the knife community except take, take and take. They would rather abuse the different forums to sell knives than pony up for a forum of their own. Don't get me wrong, there are some up and comers who are real squared away guys who have their stuff together and do fine. I guess some folks have to learn the hard way. Take your time guys and learn your craft first!! The rest will come. I'm still learning after 27 years.
 
Last edited:
HTMD said:
Being vs doing... Malcom Gladwell in his fascinating book Outliers suggests it takes a minimum of 10,000 hours of doing before one can be an "expert" at anything. 10,000 hours is 5 years of 50 40-hour weeks focused exclusively on that which one wants to become. It is also 10 years of 50 20-hour weeks wherein those hours are totally devoted to the skills to which one aspires. Anyway, its more than most are willing to devote. Unless one has already put in this kind of time, or is well into it, there isn't any being going on - only doing. In creative and artistic pursuits like knifemaking, individual style develops slowly over time. BR Hughes (yes, he did once make a knife) said to me once that he'd observed that it took 5 years of solid effort at knifemaking before a recognizable style emerged. Thus he, Bill Moran and others advised new knifemakers to proceed accordingly. This approach makes sense and will expose those who, in the end, don't want to really be a knifemaker.
Click to expand...

When I read Outliers, Gladwell’s statement made sense. Life requires at least 10,000 hours of quality work to before mastery is possible. Only possible, there are no guarantees. There are plenty of old journeymen.

I’m no knife maker, but I’ve spent more hours than that in my chosen field. You’ve got to immerse yourself in the doing. Immersing yourself takes time.

Edison—who lived and breathed his work—said much the same thing: “Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety–nine percent perspiration.”

That does not mean inspiration isn’t vital
 
You mean they want to be makers of the knives that turn out right, not makers of the pile of reject blades that most of us have stashed somewhere? Me too, me too!
 
I teach a week end class on basic knife making at the Tryon Arts and Craft School forge in Tryon,NC. I don't try to sell this as a way to become an accomplished knife maker but as an opportunity to get a taste of the process without going out and Buying a lot of equipment. Only about 10 percent of the students follow through and continue to learn with the balance taking the knife they made home with them and never making another. Some just don't have the ability to use the tools, some lose interest after they find out how much work it will take to learn to become maker.
I had a similar experience trying to become a wood carver, as much as I wanted to create life like animal carvings I had to give up after it became obvious that I just don't have the talent even though I really wanted to do it.
 
I "want" to be a pimp and lay around all day collecting money, unfortunately its just not that easy... So I make knives.
 
J.KNIGHT said:
I like to hear your thoughts.
Click to expand...


this is why i make so many of the Brute De Forge hunters....i know its not most on here cup of tea but im trying to get the knives in collectors hands. just following advise given to me by a few masters that have made it to the top of the heap

i know there working knives and they are under 200 bucks but im standing in front of the grinder and im fitting handles its all very repetitive but i am making knives and i wouldnt want to go back to being a millwright
 
Bobby Branton said:
The trend that I am seeing is that some newer makers seem to have some sort of entitlement mentality. They don't want to travel to visit another maker to learn the pit falls of knife making before jumping in. I think they see the flavor of the month and all of their fanboys go goo goo ga ga whenever a new knife comes out and they see all of the attention that the maker gets. They do not realize that it has taken some of these makers 25 years to become an overnight success. They want to post the same question on every forum and ask the most simple questions. What size screw do I need?. How long does the screw need to be?, What size driver do I need to turn the screw? Which way do I turn the screw?? These are the same guys who post a thread about how they melted the knife in heat treat totally destroying the steel and finish the knife anyway and post it up for sale a few days later.
They do not feel the need to do any research. They think they can pop into a knife show where others have spent $500.00 on a table and another $1,500.00 for show expenses and just show a few knives around;) I've seen some who bring more knives to show around;) than I bring for my show inventory.
Some, before they can even make a decent knife have fan clubs, patches, stickers, websites, a clothing line etc.
They quit their job after selling a handful of knives and six months later are sitting there wondering what in the hell happened to their fan club.
Like Jason said, they are in love with the idea of being a knife maker without actually doing very much for the knife community except take, take and take. They would rather abuse the different forums to sell knives than pony up for a forum of their own. Don't get me wrong, there are some up and comers who are real squared away guys who have their stuff together and do fine. I guess some folks have to learn the hard way. Take your time guys and learn your craft first!! The rest will come. I'm still learning after 27 years.
Click to expand...

I'm a new guy so I hope I am doing things correctly; Bobby's post voices exactly what I feel/believe and is one of the best I have ever read.

Thanks

David Sharp
 
Over my 15 years of full time knifemaking, I have spoken to more people than I can remember who stated that they would like to be a knife maker. I have no way of knowing just how many actually follow up on it but I would guess that the percentage is small. Whether the stated desire was to actually produce a knife or have the title of "knifemaker" is debatable. It would be my guess that it is probably the later. Bragging rights if you will. To be able to say to your buddies, "Yeah. I made a knife."

Since knife making has been may way of making a living for me then my goal obviously was to make knives. If others viewed me as a knifemaker then that was a fringe benefit.

Keep the thoughts coming.

Gary
 
Great idea for a thread!

Kevin Jones said:
The first thing I always ask folks who visit the CKCA booth at knife shows (and there's many) is if they are knife collectors. It's alarming how many say they are either knifemakers or want to make knives.
I wonder whether at some point we will have more makers of custom knives than buyers.
Click to expand...

Excellent post, Kevin. And IMO, the answer is "Maybe." :)

I kinf of look at it like writing books/scripts, singing, or even painting canvases. At a VERY basic level, almost anyone can do it. That is why it is so tempting. It is not brain surgery or rocket science where it is apparent to most people that a whole lot of native talent and hard work are required, and where most folks can immediately recognize that they are not ever going to be doing THAT!

But what a lot of folks fail to appreciate when it comes to writing or painting . . . or knifemaking are the subtle but very profound things that separate pedestrian, commonplace and worthless, from superlative, rare, and valuable. These things also come from some amount of native talent that very few have, and again . . . hard work.

So . . . are there going to be a zillion duffers making mediocre and even crappy and worthless knives, just as there are a zillion aspiring writers, singers, and painters producing mediocre and even crappy "unpublished novels," "music" and paitings?

Maybe.

Does that mean there will be no one left to appreciate, lust after, and pay good money to obtain the excellent knives produced by that small percentage who have actual skillz?

I don't think so. Frustrated and unsuccessful writers still read books and watch movies; frustrated and unsuccessful singer/musicians still attend concerts and buy MP3s; and unsuccessful painters still purchase art.

Dan Brown still sells a lot of books, U2 still sells a lot of concert tickets, and Van Goghs still sell for tens of millions.

I am more concerned with figuring out how to get moved up on the waiting lists for all the great knifemakers I really like. My dream seems to be your concern - that there are no more knife collectors out there who want these guys' knives. Then I can zip right to the top of the list! :) But somehow, I don't think that is going to happen.
 
I don't want to be a knife maker, but I do enjoy making knives. In 15-20, I'm planning on being good enough to derive an income from it. If other things happen, well, that's life. In the meantime I'm going to learn as much as I can.

Bobby's post regarding 'entitlement' really sums up so much of what is going on in our culture today. It's been so easy for so long to roll how you want, (easy credit) that peeps don't really feel any requirement to 'earn their turn'.

It is widely observed that in today's culture, the working class changes careers every 5 years. So, like just about the time you get good at something, you gotta try something new?
This is the 'Jack of all trades, Master of none' era, imo. Which is why I enjoy hangin with the diehards who roll old skool.
 
There is a HUGE difference between being a "knifemaker" and actually being able to make a LIVING as a knifemaker with no other income source. There are SO MANY variables that come into play when making knives is your only source of income. I have seen MANY good knifemakers think they were going to make a bunch of money at this, only to wind up giving it a run of a year or so only to give up and go back to part time making.

Ive helped a few guys get off the ground and the biggest mistake they make is "thinking" they are making good money, only to have that balloon burst when we sit down and go over EVERY expense they have in that knife before its sold.

Here is my take, and Ive made a decent living out of knifemaking for a while, in the past 10 years I have only had a couple other short term jobs, other then that every penny I have made has been through the knives...

1- Its real fun in the begining then that fun starts to become elusive... still there but you have to find it.

2- It takes a MASSIVE amount of self discipline, this is a struggle for me and many other makers I know.

3- It takes multi faceted talent, you have to be not only a good knife maker, but a savvy business man on many levels (billing, marketing, networking, time management etc.)

4- It takes tenacity, the willingness to work through pain, grit your teeth and stick with it even if things get slow every now and then.

5- It takes an immense amount of patience, as not all customers are like the fantastic ones here on BF.... some WILL try your patience albeit intentionally or not.

6- It takes humility, the ability to be honest and respond to calls even if you get way behind on delivery dates etc. If your good, and in demand you will eventually run behind. This is where I have GREAT admiration for guys like Burt Foster who manage orders and such so well.... whish I had that skill!!

There is a bunch more, but im hungry and have to go eat.
 
Well, this thread has taken a philosophical turn so I can post without derailing it. I try, Lord knows, I try, and if ever, EVER I make a perfect sheath I'm going to retire, and I don't look for that any time soon. I agree with Bobby, the average time for becoming an overnight success is about 25 years, give or take a few years. Entitlement? Ha! The harder I work, the luckier I get or something akin to that. I spent from 1951 until I officially retired from "day Jobs", honing my leather craft skills, and when I did retire I spent that first year at zero salary apprenticing at the elbow of a Master Saddle and Boot maker.

I also believe that you can be technically the best knife maker in the world, but if you only produce two or three knives a year and don't get those done on time, then you are a joke.

Commitment is another factor...You have to be 100% committed....no the dog ate my homework or family problems or whatever. You have be big enough to work around or through all those day to day problems, because they are yours, not your client's.

That's it....over and out.

Paul
 
All the hard work that we as makers put in over the years is called "paying your dues", some guys don't get that part. Early on it is a lot of work to get ready for a show, go to the show and not sell a thing, but it happens and you learn from it.

Some makers these days make a few cool knives, post them on a few forums and they are now an "internet sensation". They do not last in the business, they figure out that this is a lot more work than they anticipated. A lot of the time they are a "one trick Pony" and don't have the diversity to set themselves apart from the rest.
 
We have seen a couple of child prodigies/overnight sensations over the last few years.............notice that I said a couple. These "cutler savants' are as scarce as hen's teeth. From what I have seen, most of the guys who seem to burst onto the scene out of "nowhere" are actually ringers who have been doing some other kind of highly skilled work or art form for a number of years before they ever put a knife (or sheath as the case may be) up for sale. John White, John Perry and Paul Long spring to mind as examples. To be perfectly honest, making a knife is not all that hard. A lot of people have made knives. Making one WELL, now that is another story. They say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but in this game, the knifemaker isn't holding many of those bee's very often. :rolleyes: Yes, you can make what you like, but unless you are planning to amass a huge collection of your own work, you had better make sure that other people also like what you are making.
 
jdm61 said:
....... To be perfectly honest, making a knife is not all that hard. A lot of people have made knives. Making one WELL, now that is another story. They say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but in this game, the knifemaker isn't holding many of those bee's very often. :rolleyes: Yes, you can make what you like, but unless you are planning to amass a huge collection of your own work, you had better make sure that other people also like what you are making.
Click to expand...

Very well said, Joe!

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
 
I appreciate all of the thoughts you have shared and many of you have accurately defined the meaning of this statement.
Good comments.
 
Truth: The internet has propelled the learning curve for new makers MUCH quicker than years past. This forum community especially has been the largest influence.

New makers do ask silly questions and good ones. Receptive and knowledgable makers will help guide past their own mistakes. It's really helped.

You can buy a well-made quality knife from a new maker :thumbup: which will have an old skool maker scratching his head in frustration. :eek:

However....

The GB&U forum has disaster stories abundant. More times than not it's from newer makers. The craft of constructing a great knife is not even closely related to business acumen. Quality in a knife is found years later when you want to sell it, through resale value. That's where the rubber meets the road.

Those old skool makers have survived with tenacity and honesty for the most part. Buy quality once....

Secondly,

The forum internet community has advanced the scrutinous eyes and 'reading ears' of the buying public. The standards have been so highly raised, that the better makers offer unique designs, build quality, and integrity with each purchase. Long-term sustainability is being closely watched.

Water will find its own level. The more good knives I see, the more the REALLY good knives still stand apart.

Jason Knight penned a provocative thought for us.

Coop
 
Interesting point. Right now I am having a blast making knives. I work a white colalr job so being able to go into the shop and grind and drill for a few hours is a great escape for me. I would love to sell my knives one day, when they are good enough, but for the time being I am having a great time designing, creating and sharing them with friends and family. I have made 7 knives now...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top