Motor, VFD, and drive wheel combo?

B

BCBlades

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May 5, 2017
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Forgive me for trying to expedite a search for information that has probably already been posted, and most certainly is deeply buried in some thread here on the forums, but I'm going to go ahead and ask here in a new thread. I'm a rather new-ish knife maker, but have already outgrown my 1x30 grinder, and, of course, I'm now looking into a 2x72.

My idea is to go direct drive for now, with plans of upgrading to a VFD at some point in the near future. My question is, what motor and combination of drive wheel should I be looking at for that route? Will a 1.5hp motor suffice now, and work with the VFD later, or should I go ahead and just get a 2hp motor? By the way, I have access to 220v here at the house. I need an RPM and drive wheel combo that would work well now, and most certainly in the future with the VFD.

I don't really want to do the pulley system thing, as I'm already used to single speed (FAST... ~3500 RPM). Surprisingly, I've been able to crank out some nice grinds at warp speed after getting over the learning curve, so I think a single speed, slowed way down, will be a major upgrade in itself to me. I'm sure it won't be too many months away and I'll be grabbing the VFD to complete the upgrade though.

I'm not above going with a Chinese motor, and I keep hearing that they, and Chinese VFD's, are considerably cheaper, but I haven't been able to find them, or know the brands to be looking for at this point.

I'd appreciate any help or suggestions from you guys, and want to say thank you for all the knowledge shared on here. It's been a major help, and maybe one day I can return the favor to someone like myself.
 
Your plan will not work as it takes two different motors. A single phase to run by it self,and then a 3 phase to work with the VFD.
 
SBuzek SBuzek
Well, that certainly clears that up. I was under the misconception that you could use the same phase motor for direct drive and with a VFD.

Busto Busto
Thanks, read that... good info there.
 
Unless you have a use for the single phase motor in the future, you're better off buying the 3 phase motor and VFD right from the start. Even if you don't, once you upgrade you'll say "Why didn't I do this from the start?" and it won't even have anything to do with the extra motor you're now using to prop your shop door open with.
 
My experience agrees with John. I spent money setting my grinder up with a free treadmill motor. Spent money on pulleys, pillow block bearings, shafts so I could adapt it from the treadmill motor, link belt, drive wheel and steel to fit everything up. It's been more hassle than anything else. Wish I would have just waited, saved money and done what I'm doing now. 3hp 3 phase motor just showed up to my office 10 mins ago, waiting on delivery of the VFD I ordered and a new drive wheel to fit the 5/8" shaft as the one I originally used has a 3/4" shaft. Now I need to cut all the extra steel off the grinder from the treadmill motor set up, have the new motor plate cut that's in my trunk so I can weld it up and bolt the new motor on. I could have saved a couple hundred on the VFD with a china one, but after the last year of dealing with the aggravation of the current set up, I'm doing it 100% right this time and bought a KBAC-29 with the extra forward/stop/reverse switch and the on/of switch. Got right at $660 in the 3 items. (Motor, vfd, drive wheel)

Only plus side I can find in it, is may use the treadmill motor, shaft and drive wheel to set up a dedicated sharpening station since i'll have the parts, and I probably have enough steel laying around to build a frame for it without spending any more money.
 
Ok, I'm just going to take what seems like everyone's advice and get everything I need right off the bat. I still have some more research and serious contemplating to do, but I'm pretty sure I'll be going with one of the various all-in-one packages offered by a few of the companies. I've always had this option in the back of my mind, but thought I might be able to save a bit of money taking the incremental route. Knowing my luck though, trying to piece something together will be a major hassle and endeavor.

Right now I'm looking at the NRT Standard Package and the Pheer 454 x 10 2hp. They are similarly priced, but the NRT doesn't come with a large contact wheel, which is of course something I can get elsewhere. Also, the Esteem looks to be an excellent option for the price, but both packages on the site say they come with the choice of either a platen, or contact wheel, and I'm curious as to what the final price will be with both. I've definitely got some narrowing down to do and some calls to make.

If there are any others I should be looking at though, I'd appreciate the suggestions if they are in the ball bark price-wise of these above. Again, thank you all much for the help thus far in my journey.
 
You won't regret that decision. Lots of us learned all of this the hard way. Incrementalism may delay expenses, but it's rarely less expensive in the long run. Delaying expense is a valid method of operation, but there are better places to do it than the primary resource in a knife shop (grinder). Whether you build or buy, getting a 1.5 to 3hp variable machine from the get go is a really good decision.
 
The companies you listed produce very similar quality products and you will receive the motor/vfd wired for 220v no brainer there. The one consideration is the size of the "Tool" arm there are 1-1/4" and 1-1/2" arms so when you start to add more tooling this needs to be a consideration if the receiver will accept the right dimension as your machine currently uses. Start with the Flat Platen it is more versatile then add contact wheels as needed.
 
If you wish to save money right now, and spend more a bit later, get the 3 ph motor and a cheap $100 VFD to use now, then when the Chinese VFD burns out (perhaps years later) then you get the nice NEMA 4 VFD. Several of us have been running the cheap Chinese VFDs with good results by putting VFD in box, or as I do, just put filter over air intakes.
 
IronHorse is probably the best "new in box" value for 3 phase motors at the moment. IIRC, you can get a 2hp for about $175 shipped. That said, if you have a surplus shop or a repair shop in your local area, you could likely find a lightly used, new old stock, or refurbished motor that's of a little better quality for around the same price or even much less. I've seen 3 phase motors for as low as $40 or $50 in excellent condition. Craigslist is a good place to look as well, and deals CAN be found on eBay, though with such a wide audience, it becomes a little harder to get them first.
As for VFDs, the "industry standard" seems to be the KBAC-27d, which will run around $350 to $375 or so, and worth every penny. That said, you can find a brand new chinese VFD for about $100-$130 on eBay. They're actually pretty good VFDs, and very versatile, but you will need a dust proof enclosure for them. You might also find some good used VFDs on eBay that may or may not be dust proof to begin with, but these are a little harder to weed out. MOST used vfds on ebay are 480V, 3phase input, and/or for 1hp or less. That said, you can occasionally find one that would work for 220v single phase in, 3 phase out, for up to 2hp. You just have to search around and know what you're looking for.
 
If you can swing it that NRT-2 Package prewired is where I would spend my money...That's a true "Turn Key" system.
 
Thanks again for all your advice . I was seriously contemplating sourcing a cheaper motor + VFD, but it will be worth the extra cost to just go ahead and get everything in a package that is going to work as soon as it gets here with no finagling.

So after looking at, and debating everything, I've decided on the Pheer 454 w/ the 1.5hp and KBAC 27, 8" wheel, and flat platen. I'm going to be ordering it today or tomorrow morning. I haven't called to ask anything yet, but does anyone know if there's a waiting list with them?

Also, I need to build a small work table for this baby and would appreciate some suggestions for the best work height in your experience. The table I'm using for the grinder I have now isn't going to cut it because I find myself having to sit down at times to get the best position.

Anything else you guys think I should have in mind, ask the company, or should be expecting would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
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