Mountain Lions and paranoia, a few thoughts

I had a Ridgeback as a child, got him as a puppy when I was four or five. His name was Quinn, he was stolen from our front yard about 15 years ago. From what I can remember, with a dog like that I second the thought that a mountain lion probably wouldn't list you two as "on the menu".
Just my .02 and a little reminiscing.

I started this thread imagining someone might think me paranoid for being as well armed as I am. Central Rural Texas suggested that if he were in my position he would be even better armed. I thought about it and tried to thread the holster for my old S&W Model 19 on my belt -- way too much trouble for an early morning on a hike. I checked the internet and couldn't find anything more suitable. So I'll stick with my Walther 22 for now. In one of Peter Capstick's books he described some beaters driving elephants and using 22s to sting them along. Suddenly one of the elephants dropped dead. Apparently an elephant shot in just the right place with a 22 will be killed. I'm not saying I can do that with a pouncing mountain lion but a 22 isn't utterly worthless.

On the other hand watch this video of a Rhodesian Ridgeback messing with a Badger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcc0EGjnDQc&feature=youtu.be This is what Ridgebacks do, dance around, in and out, a little nip and then dance back out of the way. Most animals treated in that fashion will soon try to get away as the Badger did, and if that was occurring in front of me with Ben and a Mountain Lion I might wish I had taken Central Rural Texas's advice and come better armed, but I tend to think as you do, that we are never likely to see a Mountain Lion -- probably won't see one and probably won't have serious trouble with a coyote but its nice to have a couple of things on the belt just in case.

Lawrence
 
Lawrence, I think you are prefectly fine. If something happened to Duffy, it would probably happen so quickly that there would be little you could do before most likely the damage is done.

The 22's are not worthless for self defense. It is the quickness that it might put an aggressor down that is the problem unless once shot they just curl up in the fetal position and cry for mommy. I would probably feel comfortable with the 22 myself. I have read that mountain lions are not hard to kill. But if you were considering a new firearm for carry, I would take a look at the Ruger LCR with the exposed hammer (very light and pocketable). I have the LCR-22 shrouded hammer version which is a fun little gun to plink with. Not so sure I would be much good hitting (effectively) a moving target at 15 yds or so with it which is why I suggested the new version with the exposed hammer. I suspect you are more comfortable with the hammer.

The Colt "Trooper" is a great gun and one of my favorites in both the Mark III version (my favorite 357 shooter) and the old Trooper which I only have in 22LR. I have passed on buying many of the old Troopers in 357 and 38spl that I wish I would have picked one up when they were less expensive. They used to be one of the sleeper Colts that few seemed to know much about. Sleepers don't really exist anymore. Years ago when the Blue Book was relatively new, I would see Colt Cobra's in 22 and some dealers wouldn't even know what they had (for valuation purposes) since it was not listed in the Blue Book at that time. Those were good old gun show days. The early Blue Books pretty much missed the 22 version of the Trooper as well and even today, the production period is sort of glossed over for the 22 version.

Your Walther is a good little 22 pistol although I would be more comfortable with a revolver myself.

You're well equipped with the knives you already own. I would be interested in how you feel carrying the BK-7 hiking on your belt as that is the way I would carry it as well.
 
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Huh. Looks like there have even been occasional Mountain Lion sightings in RI and eastern CT over the years. Not many, mind you... I do like to look UP occasionally as I hike in the woods... after all, that's one way I surprise deer and if *I* can get up a tree, a cat certainly can.
 
Just stumbled on this thread. Here in the Bay Area the cats are often killed when they wander down some drainage and wind up in town. Usually one or two a year make the news. But there are definitely more up in the hills.
A friend of mine in Nevada City Ca (Tahoe/Sierra Foothills) recently shot a 120lb male cougar in his backyard! "Good thing you didn't miss" is what the Fish & Game Warden said, when he came to pick it up. My buddy lost one of his oldest and most cherished (by the Mrs.) female goats.
 
There are unofficial sightings in the East Tennessee area. Of course, there isn't supposed to be a breeding population in the Blue Ridge Mountains. But I am pretty sure that that it is more likely than not regardless of the "official" part of it. The mountains are very remote.
 
Lawrence, I think you are prefectly fine. If something happened to Duffy, it would probably happen so quickly that there would be little you could do before most likely the damage is done.

The 22's are not worthless for self defense. It is the quickness that it might put an aggressor down that is the problem unless once shot they just curl up in the fetal position and cry for mommy. I would probably feel comfortable with the 22 myself. I have read that mountain lions are not hard to kill. But if you were considering a new firearm for carry, I would take a look at the Ruger LCR with the exposed hammer (very light and pocketable). I have the LCR-22 shrouded hammer version which is a fun little gun to plink with. Not so sure I would be much good hitting (effectively) a moving target at 15 yds or so with it which is why I suggested the new version with the exposed hammer. I suspect you are more comfortable with the hammer.

The Colt "Trooper" is a great gun and one of my favorites in both the Mark III version (my favorite 357 shooter) and the old Trooper which I only have in 22LR. I have passed on buying many of the old Troopers in 357 and 38spl that I wish I would have picked one up when they were less expensive. They used to be one of the sleeper Colts that few seemed to know much about. Sleepers don't really exist anymore. Years ago when the Blue Book was relatively new, I would see Colt Cobra's in 22 and some dealers wouldn't even know what they had (for valuation purposes) since it was not listed in the Blue Book at that time. Those were good old gun show days. The early Blue Books pretty much missed the 22 version of the Trooper as well and even today, the production period is sort of glossed over for the 22 version.

Your Walther is a good little 22 pistol although I would be more comfortable with a revolver myself.

You're well equipped with the knives you already own. I would be interested in how you feel carrying the BK-7 hiking on your belt as that is the way I would carry it as well.

22-rimfire,

My wife has several medical appointments in the next week or so but I'll try and take the BK-7 out next. I don't know if I mentioned that while the Skystorm sheath is very well made it is a tight fit for the 7 and difficult to get the knife out in a hurry; so I bought another sheath. The new one provides a much looser fit. In fact it would rattle like a Buck 124 in its sheath if the snap weren't fastened, but I can fasten and refasten the snap readily when the sheath is on my belt -- something I haven't been able to do with any new Skystorm sheath. I don't intend to badmouth the Skystorm sheaths btw. I like them a lot. It is just that they are a precision fit, especially the 7. I've worked with the sheath for my BK12 and it is ready to take on a hike, but the 7 may take a bit longer. In the meantime I have the other sheath. We'll see.

In the Boot Camp and in combat training at Camp Pendleton we walked post with unloaded rifles. We went through some training to teach us how to use them as weapons even without bullets in them. I've thought about that in regard to my hiking sticks. I use mostly a couple that are fairly light-weight. The wood is strong though and if I had to use one like I used my old M1 I don't think it would break, but I made one of some really heavy hard wood -- don't know what the wood was, but this one would make an excellent weapon. If I could bring myself to use this stick on my hikes I suspect I could stand off a mountain lion, assuming he didn't jump on my knapsack from behind. :D The thing is I'd probably have to use both hands. With my lighter hiking sticks I can windmill them left-handed; with the heavier stick I do a really slow windmill; so lighter stick plus a good knife, or heavier stick by itself? So far I've opted for the former approach.

I heard that law enforcement didn't favor the Trooper 357 after they noticed some cylinders loosening and jamming. That never happened on mine.

As to getting a new firearm, out here in California we now have to take tests first. I took the test before buying my CZ75 P-01 and Walther 22. "Don't lose this certification or you'll have to take the test over again," I was told after completing the test -- and then one of my Ridgebacks chewed up my certification card. :(

Lawrence
 
It used to be that when I went out pasture crawling or working in out buildings, I'd carry a Taurus 9-shot 22 wit rat shot for rattlers. Until the day I was up in the hayloft of the old barn clearing out some of the 400+ bales of 35 y.o. hay. Pulled one loose and as Gomer Pyle used to say "Surprise!!! Surprise!!! Surprise!!! There was good, ol' Mr. 5 foot 4 inch not very happy Rattler not 3 feet away. I backed up a little (trying to avoid the access hole in the loft floor) and almost-calmly emptied all 9 rounds, hitting the critter at least 7 times. I now had one very pissed off 5 ft 4 inch rattler and he wanted a little of his own back, :eek: I had a pitch fork and a chopping hoe up there with me and I grabbed the fork and started to go Conan the Barbarian on his no-legged, slithering self.

Since then, I started carrying a S&W Model 562 .357 w/ HPs when working the out buildings and fence lines. For my pasture crawling, I now carry a 1911 since we have feral hogs moving in and several reports/game camera shots of cougars (4 legged variety) running the creek beds. A .22 will just bounce off the head of a hog and even a .38 won't penetrate the fat layer under their skins to the vital areas for a quick kill.

And while typing this, my back space key on my laptop just quit working. Aaarrrggggghhhhh!!!!!!!!!! Highlite and DEL key only.
 
Perhaps what I should get is a different holster for my 357. I have to let whatever gun I'm carrying ride on the left side of my belt and I'm right handed. Maybe a cross-draw for the 357 if they make one.

FYI my loaded Walther in holster weighs 1.25 pounds. My CZ75 P01 in holster weighs 2.3 pounds. And my S&W model 19 357 in holster weighs 2.7 pounds.

Lawrence

Bianchi makes the Cyclone which is cross draw or normal carry, both. There are others for your .357 as well.

The 357 Magnum would be my hands down choice for hiking. S&W makes wonderful (but expensive) Scandium .357s, either small or duty sized that are as light or lighter than the OP's .22. In fact, the J Frame versions are not much heavier than the Becker the OP is carrying. Also, Charter Arms makes a light weight .357, as does Taurus.
 
Bianchi makes the Cyclone which is cross draw or normal carry, both. There are others for your .357 as well.

The 357 Magnum would be my hands down choice for hiking. S&W makes wonderful (but expensive) Scandium .357s, either small or duty sized that are as light or lighter than the OP's .22. In fact, the J Frame versions are not much heavier than the Becker the OP is carrying. Also, Charter Arms makes a light weight .357, as does Taurus.

Doc,

The holster I've been using for my S&W 2 1/2 inch barreled 357 for maybe 25 years is a Bianchi #5BHL. That still seems to be the most often cited in internet adds. I use a thick belt, about 1 3/4 inches and that barely fits through the Bianchi -- with a lot of pushing and tugging. If I use this holster there is no way I would string that all the way over to my left side. It would be much easier to string a knife over there and then put my camera case on the belt on my right hip and the Bianchi the last thing on my belt. A problem I've always had with carrying this gun is that it is top heavy. Because of the way it is built it doesn't sit deep in the sheath. The advantage of the 2 1/2 model 19 is that I used to shoot it a lot and am still very comfortable and accurate with it. I'm going to work the sheath with Neats Foot oil to see if I can expand it a bit.

I did a quick check and don't see a Cyclone for the S&W Model 19 with a 2 1/2 inch barrel. I don't have the impression that was a very popular size. The one was from Turners; a police department had ordered them custom and then weren't satisfied with them. I see gear for the 2 1/2 inch but not as much as for the 4 and 2.

Some years ago I bought a little 5-shot 357 Taurus for my wife and then loaded it with wadcutters. She's not very strong so I figured that was about as much as she could handle. Just now I asked her where it was and she wasn't sure. I hunted through her night stand until I found it. The idea was that when I was off hiking she would be safely armed. but not if she can't find the gun. :rolleyes: I wouldn't want to take this gun hiking -- much too small to shoot 357s with accuracy IMO.

The holster I'm using for my Walther 22 is an inside the pants Uncle Mike, but I use it outside the pants, clipped to my left -- works fine. I haven't done much left-handed shooting. I am somewhat ambidextrous, although if I had to use the 22 I'd move my hiking stick to my right hand, take out the 22, switch the 22 to my right hand and the hiking stick to my left -- pretty cumbersome. As it is now I think of my hiking-stick as my primary defensive weapon and my knife if I am carrying a BK7 or BK12 as the more serious theat. I think of the 22 as a last resort.
I used to do my own reloading, still have all the equipment; although in looking at my 357 rounds I remember picking up a couple of boxes each time I was at Turners figuring I'd eventually reload the casings but never got around to it I guess. I imagine my 357 rounds would handle anything I'm ever likely to see on my hikes. But then I've never seen anything but coyotes thus far and they aren't a threat; although they could be to Duffy at some point and an easily handled 22 would be help enough for them.

I'm not really interested in buying any more guns since there is no good place to shoot where I live, but I'm looking into finding a different belt that might help some. Thanks for the advice though -- it is something to think about. As I mentioned some place, here in California we now have to take a test to buy guns. I took it before I bought the 22 but then one of the dogs I had at the time chewed it. I taped it together; so maybe I wouldn't have to take the test again. I suppose I could go into a local gun store and present my needs and they'd probably come up with something. But that wouldn't alter the fact that I wouldn't have much opportunity to shoot the new gun; so I'm probably going to stick with what I got.

The morning is colder than usual and a dog maybe half a mile away is howling -- probably wants in the house. When the sun comes up I'll take the 22, my camera, BK7, hiking stick, knapsack, Duffy, Ben and my Jeep off to a nearby hiking spot. Might even be too cold for the coyotes to be out.

Lawrence
 
Well, I hunt in Waller County down here in Texas on the border with Montgomery County and this is my 26th straight year on the same lease. We had a few reports last year in the news in October of a Mountain Lion attacking a horse and my lease manager runs cows and claims (this year - past couple months) to have lost a few calves. I haven't seen any tracks, nor have I found any carcasses of the missing bovines. One hunter showed me a photo he supposedly took of a small cat he walked up on in the field but that is not confirmed.
We've had more trouble with coyotes than anything else and my guess is they are the reason for the missing calves.
I just carry my Glock 22 in .40 cal (16 rounds of 180 gr. Hydrashocks) along with my Busse SOB when headed to my stands in the predawn hours or returning to camp after dark. I've always done that and in 26 years, I've only had a few encounters with some hogs where my trail led me between a big sow and her shoats and never had to fire a shot while just moving to and from my hunting areas. Only two times in all those years did I have any encounter where I needed to defend myself with a gun. Both times I was spot and stalk bowhunting and arrowed hogs that charged me and were subsequently dispatched with a handgun. One from the tree I scrambled up (LOL) and one from the ground.
We are planning on baiting the alleged Mountain Lion after the deer season ends with a small shoat if possible. Although we have multiple game cameras around the entire lease and no one has yet to produce an actual photo of any cats. It will be fun regardless. :D
 
Take it from someone that has shot thousands of critters and studied handgun stopping power for 30 years...You don't want to shoot a coyote let alone a big cat with a 22LR. A pistol doesn't have near the power of a rifle and you not find a yote hunter anywhere that would use a 22 LR for hunting yotes and they shoot them standing still. You have only a 22% chance of stopping a yote attack if you hit him in a great spot. As far as head shots, I've had 38 Special round hit smaller critters and follow the skull under the hide requiring follow up shots while the critter was running. Your 357 loaded proper will kill the cat but it won't be quick and you would likely get bit. I just watched a video of a wounded cat charging a hunter and it took 4 rounds from three hunters shooting large caliber rifles to stop the cat before it munched the hunter. If the cat is coming after you and you have the 357 loaded with 180 gr Buffalo bullets, pulling the trigger enough times will stop him. Your 22LF will just make him mad.
 
Take it from someone that has shot thousands of critters and studied handgun stopping power for 30 years...You don't want to shoot a coyote let alone a big cat with a 22LR. A pistol doesn't have near the power of a rifle and you not find a yote hunter anywhere that would use a 22 LR for hunting yotes and they shoot them standing still. You have only a 22% chance of stopping a yote attack if you hit him in a great spot. As far as head shots, I've had 38 Special round hit smaller critters and follow the skull under the hide requiring follow up shots while the critter was running. Your 357 loaded proper will kill the cat but it won't be quick and you would likely get bit. I just watched a video of a wounded cat charging a hunter and it took 4 rounds from three hunters shooting large caliber rifles to stop the cat before it munched the hunter. If the cat is coming after you and you have the 357 loaded with 180 gr Buffalo bullets, pulling the trigger enough times will stop him. Your 22LF will just make him mad.

My initial note considered the possibility that I might be a bit paranoid for carrying a heavy BK knife (BK2, BK12, BK7, BK9, etc), a 22 handgun, and a stout hiking stick. Some people perhaps with experience similar to mine say, yeah, you've got a Rhodesian Ridgeback, you're not a tiny person, a mountain lion will have no reason for messing with you. Others take the tangent that if I were to shoot a mountain lion my 22 would not be adequate. We've had two Mountain Lion attacks in neighboring towns but they've been against farm animals, a couple of llamas and a horse. I haven't mentioned it but there are farm animals to the south-west of where I hike in the form of a dairy:





If a mountain lion were to come this way I would think a tasty cow would be more tempting than Duffy or even a coyote, but I don't know. But if it did come my way it would never occur to me to shoot it.

I recall maybe 20 or 25 years ago hiking in the Santa Ana Mountains when my Rhodesian Ridgeback (Trooper) and my German Shorthaired Pointer (Heidi) both stopped on the trail, looked up the mountain and showed a lot of skittishness and apprehension. I had never seen them or any of my dogs do that before. I suspected they must have smelled either a mountain lion or a bear. If something like that happened where I hike now, perhaps suggesting that some mountain lion was adding our hiking area to his territory I would definitely start carrying a 357. But as for now I'll remain Alfred E. Newman. :D :thumbup:

Lawrence
 
There are unofficial sightings in the East Tennessee area. Of course, there isn't supposed to be a breeding population in the Blue Ridge Mountains. But I am pretty sure that that it is more likely than not regardless of the "official" part of it. The mountains are very remote.

Yep . . . :eek:
 
There are unofficial sightings in the East Tennessee area. Of course, there isn't supposed to be a breeding population in the Blue Ridge Mountains. But I am pretty sure that that it is more likely than not regardless of the "official" part of it. The mountains are very remote.

Those Tennessee cats probably haven't bothered to learn how to read official document legalese, so they don't know they are not supposed to breeding there.
 
i should imagine one of those Governators or Judginators would do the trick as an all purpose hiking gun...

various kinds of ammo can go into those... including shot, mixed shot, slugs, and rouds.

everything from snakes to larger mammals
 
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