Mountain Lions eat well in Calif. OT

M

munk

Joined
Mar 22, 2002
Messages
15,742
Good news for California: the Mountain Lion protection laws are working! A Lion has killed another human!

The cat attacked someone on a Mountain Bike riding with others. There was a dead body in the bush nearby of a previous victim.

The Press is quick to point out there have been few fatalities. What they don't point out is most of the fatalities are in the modern era, where the great cats are not hunted as often and are protected by law in many areas. The stats, of course, can never address those women, children and men just 'missing'.



So horray for the Mountain Lion. This is what California wanted, right?

This is why I carry a khukuri on my MT Bike.


munk
 
I'm a little leary of having a Mountain Lion hunting season here in Southern California. Far too many people here couldn't recognize a Mountain Lion from a Cow. When I was in Missouri they used to shoot three or four hunters out of tree blinds every year. Granted, the shooters were probably from New York City where the hunting culture is a little strange anyway. However, too many of those folks have moved to Southern California and I'm afraid of what kind of trophys those halfwits would bring down. Another thing is that we have an element here that would like nothing better than go out into the hills and shoot up anything that moves. Something does need to be done but I would rather have Caifornia Fish & Game Wardens or the county sherifs do the culling.
 
The cat apparently had the rider by the head. It took a few melon sized rocks thrown by another rider to force the cat to release.

"Wear your Helmet" takes on a whole new meaning of safety.




munk
 
We are not entrusted with firearms? The idea, Crooked Knife, of not allowing the populace duly licensed hunting priviledges strikes me as only one step back from not entrusting us with the First and Second amendments, and perhaps democracy as well.

The beauty of a hunting system is the State makes money, the Cats are protected, and some balance is restored to nature. Why would an overburdened state economy wish to pay the cost of controlling Mountain lions when it could sell the task?

Limited take works in all 50 states, even California.






munk
 
Originally posted by munk
Limited take works in all 50 states, even California.
Click to expand...

Yes, if it stays limited. I've lived in Northern California all my life, and every time someone gets attacked or killed by a mountain lion, people want to hunt mountain lions to extinction. It doesn't help that they often attack children. I've seen too many animals hunted to the point of nonexistence. I've never seen a bear in my life. In the town where I grew up, the oldtimers used to see them all the time. The bears are all dead now. The same thing happened with wild turkeys. They were hunted until they were almost gone. It took almost 20 years, but I'm finally starting to see them around with a fair degree of regularity. It's unfortunate that mountain lions and humans sometimes come into conflict, but in my opinion, it's not a valid reason to kill them all off. Large predators serve an important purpose in the ecosystem.

--Josh
 
I am afraid I am one of those people who say that the lions were here first and if they get a few people, well then, those people should have been watching out better.

Dont get me wrong, I am a hunter and love hunting. I usually hunt deer here in north carolina, but I very occasionally get to hunt other things. Growing up in florida I got the chance to hunt gator on a pretty regular basis and that was pretty fun.

I don't hunt things out of season, however. I also don't hunt things that are endangered in a certain area. From what I understand that whats going on with these lions.

So, if they get a few people, well thats just the price we pay for not having a planet with only humans on it.
 
Your point is well taken. Experienced and skilled hunters licensed to take the game animal by purchasing a proper tag would work. My concern is that with the population Southern California has and the huge number of people who use the limited recreational areas available, the potential for tragic accidents is exponentially greater than in a more rural setting. From my perspective if I am to err on the issue I would rather err on the side of caution. The ultimate consideration here is whether more people would be killed and maimed by Mountain Lions or hunting accidents. This issue is open to debate.
 
One idea would be to allow hound hunters to at least run the big cats again, even if they were not allowed to take them. It would put the fear of humans back in them so that we weren't considered a easy source of food.

BTW Josh ~ Turkeys aren't indiginous to California. They were first introduced to our nutty state about 30 years ago.

Adios, stevo
 
Walking in Calif mountain lion country it might be advantageous to take along your two Pit Bulls or Airedales in addition to your Kuk and Charter Arms 44 special.:eek:
 
California Fish and Game did a study and concluded the lion was not endangered. For political reasons, the study was not released to the public until after the emotional election on the hunting ban.

For Josh in particular; hunting saved the javelina in AZ, and countless other species in all States. I believe the black bear situation in Calif has improved. I do not know what happened to the Black bear in your area in Calif. I do not believe regulated hunting was to blame.


I do not want to hunt Mt Lions or anything to extinction. I do wish to reestablish the respect and fear the lions have for people. There are incidents in MT, but few. The lions are hunted and have a very healthy population.

Crooked Knife; it is the 'err on the side of safey' argument that leaves many people unarmed in a hostile world. That is why you cannot carry a loaded firearm in Calf.
The stats on Deer hunting accidents in Ca do not bear out your concern about causalties with foolish hunters.


Well, this is an interesting forum. You have weighed in for the lion, and it is this misdirected protection which is killing the cat and more people today.

Ca wanted to 'save trees', and did not log or thin. Now the trees in So Ca have burned, mudslides take your homes and lives, and you have neither forest, animals, habitat, or trees.

munk
 
Clearblue; for some reason the cats hate dogs, and vica versa. A lion will eat a dog, but a couple of strong and motivated dogs accompanying you on a hike they would avoid like the plague.

This lion thread is 'ironic' for me in that I lived in So Cal most of my life and voted there too.



munk
 
Back when folks were allowed to hunt, weren't these big cats generally afraid of humans to the point of avoiding contact with us?
:eek: :footinmou
 
When Bill said, "the cats get one every now and then', there was a certain amount of truth and humor there. No matter what we do, the cats will always 'get one every now and then." I wouldn't want to live in a world where they did not.

In a strange way, it reminds me of something Charles Bukowski said once, to the order of, "cockroaches will take over the world eventually, but we'll make them wait a little while."


I intend to make both cockroach and cat wait some time more, and have either the 41 mag 4" or a Bura Chir AK with me on the Mt Bike or hiking.

Now, that is nature.




munk
 
Munk, I'm with you about allowing hunting of mtn lions, don't get me wrong. My thoughts were only that if California continues to let popular culture and opinion (not sound game management)dictate that mtn. lions are not harvested, perhaps they could at least allow the houndsmen to run them. I've been a responsible hunter for almost 3 decades in this retarded state and I will never understand their laws. Our deer herds have suffered due to their buck only laws that have been in place since the 50's, as well other laws. The dpt of fish and game has their hands bound by the liberal wacko's that have watched Bambi one too many times.:grumpy:
 
Steveo?

I have an friend who adamantly maintains that ALL of Calfornia is a social experiment, run by the Government. He postulates that if the experiment goes too far awry, MIB will slip into the countryside and loose the moorings that hold the state to the rest of the continent. :)

Of course, he's a Midwesterner.
 
I know the 'buck only' law too well. You'd think the feminists would be all over that one. It hurts the health of the deer population.
As for hounds, the public has a negative image of dogs chasing kitty. They will never allow it. Your point is good, too. The local houndsman rarely shoots a lion, but chases them. He can always tell one that has been chased before. "Boy, was she pissed."

Death is unpleasent, and will never be photogenic. I fear hunting will lose to the politics. We eat our meat at MC Donalds, and do not see the stockyard or slaughterhouse. We see the Wolf as noble and mystic, but not the areas of spoiled meat packs leave behind on thrill kills.

We see nature through a glass marble. We are silly.


munk
 
Here in the midwest, they killed all the wolves, which made the deer population and the coyote population skyrocket. Less folks gettin' in trouble with wolves, but now ya hit deer with cars, coyotes make off with livestock or pets, etc. Bear have been gone from this place for soo long.

Course, they killed all the trees too, as the forests of NY and PA stretched unborken thru Ohio and Indiana at one time.

as fer CA lions, perhaps pepper spray or stun batons, dogs or mebbe spray yerself down with bitter apple (or some other chemical deterent that tastes bad to them).

Keith
 
Josh made a great point...

Large predators serve an important purpose in the ecosystem.
Click to expand...

Here's my opinion on the problem: Industrialization has decreased the overall habitat for the lions, while their pray (rabbit, deer, etc.) continue to be hunted, thus lowering the percentage of prey per lion per area. If the mountain lions are not hunted as well to maintain population density, the ecosystem is out of balance.
Think about it, if there were rabbits and deer, etc. everywhere they walked, would there be as many attacks? Maybe, maybe not...
I think this could probably be controlled by releasing a limited number of permits on an annual basis. In Upstate NY, this same principle is applied to hunting doe (deer) to maintain their population density, with application for doe permits.
Just my $.02
-WarrenR
 
When I was 20 years younger and wandered the Mojave desert, I was told by the Sierra Club:

-a rattlesnake always rattles before striking

that didn't turn out to be true

-MT Lions will not attack people

that didn't turn out to be true

-Black bears will not attack people

that didn't turn out to be true

-Grizzlies will attack only if they're fed at Yellowstone or if it is a Mother and Cubs

that didn't turn out to be true

Now I am told we are in their "Backyard" and that it is I who am trespassing. Ladies and Gentlemen, we are all of us in the backyard together.


munk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top