Moving on from production knives

Oh great…

Now we have to define production, mid-tech, custom and handmade.

Here we go again. 🤣😂

I’ve always classified knives as, affordable, obtainable, dreamable and way-outta-my range. :)
 
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^^ Higher production numbers / mass produced has no correlation with QC or quality. There is better QC and higher quality and consistency coming out of mass production all the time. Some of the most inconsistent quality and QC has come out of the higher end US ”smaller” shops.
 
K.O.D. said:
I never took midtech to mean outsourcing the work. Many "custom" makers outsource their heat treatment.

I always thought of midtech as being higher end knives made in a small factory with smaller output than a traditional production company. The smaller production numbers means higher quality as the knives are hand inspected instead of mass produced, which is why you never hear complain about CRK having uneven grinds or being off center.

Basically, something more expensive with fewer made.
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Historically, that’s not how mid-tech was defined. Heat treatment was never really considered ‘outsourcing’ per se, but the finicky knife arena perceives anything outside of that as not being ‘done by the maker’.

Mid-tech was a term created to apply to a maker’s design that he had punched out elsewhere, that involved assembly or other ‘basic’ work (handle shaping, perhaps), but was to allow the maker to be more productive and perhaps hit a different (usually lower) price point so that they could increase profitability.

If the work tended to be higher quality, I’d say that was reflective of the work that maker was doing, not necessarily the end goal.
 
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Ah, so stuff like the Sharp By Design, Liong Mah, Vero, etc, made by Reate or WE in China.

Yeah I prefer not to drop that kind of money on knives made there. I don't think I own anything that would be considered midtech.

Currently, my favorite knives are my Alan Davis, Andrey Biryukov #12, and Alexander Cheburkov Strizh.

I still like everything else I own, but most I wouldn't (quite a few I couldn't) replace if I lost or broke one.

I do see at least one more Russian knife being added to the stable, probably next year. I like the look of the Biryukov #7 in S390, as well as a Cheburkov Scout or Leader light.
 
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Totally agree. I’m a different kind of knife guy, than most that frequent this subforum, though. Designs don’t mean much to me, unless the maker means something to me. If I look at the knives I own, they’re a reflection of the people that made them, and hold merit and significance to me because of that. Most are handmade.
 
Matthew Gregory said:
Totally agree. I’m a different kind of knife guy, than most that frequent this subforum, though. Designs don’t mean much to me, unless the maker means something to me. If I look at the knives I own, they’re a reflection of the people that made them, and hold merit and significance to me because of that. Most are handmade.
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I've seen some others here do the same .... and with the huge selection available these days it makes sense. And the longer I am doing this hobby (started only a few years ago), the more knives I have tell a story.
 
ferider said:
I've seen some others here do the same .... and with the huge selection available these days it makes sense. And the longer I am doing this hobby (started only a few years ago), the more knives I have tell a story.
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All of my most valuable knives are from makers I care about...several of whom have become close friends over the years.

Others that hold a permanent, or relatively permanent, place in the collection are there for one or more reasons that make them special to me outside of that select circle.

The "story" is the best part of this hobby of ours, imho.
 
K.O.D. said:
Ah, so stuff like the Sharp By Design, Liong Mah, Vero, etc, made by Reate or WE in China.
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I wouldn’t call those mid tech though. I have a Pena x series made by Reate. Nice knife but I’m sure Enrique Peña never touched it. That’s still “just” a production knife in my mind.
 
pretty much in complete agreement with K.O.D. Personally, I have very little interest in any production knives and the first thing I look for is the country of origin. If it is made in China it is a definite NO.

the "designer knife" BS is certainly not my cup of tea and anything that uses "EDC" is a turn off.
 
nickycat said:
pretty much in complete agreement with K.O.D. Personally, I have very little interest in any production knives and the first thing I look for is the country of origin. If it is made in China it is a definite NO.

the "designer knife" BS is certainly not my cup of tea and anything that uses "EDC" is a turn off.
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I don’t know…I like the ability to get a Pena or Nadeau designed knife without having to pay custom prices. I think the designer knife concept a win for the overall knife community.
 
I do see the appeal of the midtechs though, as some of prices the custom makers are exorbitant, especially for what you are getting.

I met some great custom makers at thr GAKC show last summer. I felt their prices reasonable, especially compared to a lot of what I see. Seamus knives with Stellite 6K were particularly impressive, and almost bought one. It's still on my list.

But when I see a titanium frame lock flipper in CPM-154 going for $3000+ it makes me choke.
 
Part of my reason for going the custom/semi-custom route is because I'm sick of G-10, FRN, and Titanium. This gives me the option of some really unique handle materials, or in the case of my Cheburkov, linerless carbon fiber. I feel like they come sharper and a more even edge than production too. My Biryukov is in S125V and even after 6 months of light use its still stupid sharp. I've never experienced a knife as sharp as it is. Makes me wonder if I'll be ever be able to attain that level of sharpness with it.
 
Back in 1991 I bought my first custom knife. It was a Wally Watts trapper in ATS-34 with Osage Orange scales. I still have it and a boat load of mostly production knives. Lately I've been getting more into the OTF's. I like a good custom, but I can get more production knives for the money. Customs are nice but [Good} production knives still do it for me.
 
K.O.D. said:
I never took midtech to mean outsourcing the work. Many "custom" makers outsource their heat treatment.

I always thought of midtech as being higher end knives made in a small factory with smaller output than a traditional production company. The smaller production numbers means higher quality as the knives are hand inspected instead of mass produced, which is why you never hear complain about CRK having uneven grinds or being off center.

Basically, something more expensive with fewer made.
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I’m pretty new to the knife world but that’s thought as well. But then there is Benchmade. All their stuff looks and feels mass produced but is priced like a small custom knife company made them.
 
I avoided Chinese knives for a long time, but now most of the ones that catch my interest are high end Chinese models. There are some things that they just do better, for instance detailed machining that uses very small mill bits that need to be run slowly and replaced often. $400 may seem like a lot for a knife that's made in China, but those are usually made in such a way that they're more comparable to American knives costing double or triple what they go for. I've been really impressed with the ones I've bought. Where the better US makers still have an advantage is in well-designed simplicity. There's something to be said for making minute refinements to a design over decades as seen on the Sebenza. More care goes into a design like that as opposed to one that's only going to have a couple thousand units made and be released as one of 20 new models introduced over the course of the year. That being said, there's value to both approaches, and that variety is what makes this hobby interesting. My CRK Sebenza isn't going anywhere and neither is my We Arrakis.
 
nhobo said:
Pimping out your car doesn't make it art, neither does pimping out your knife.

Knives are functional. Art is not functional. Craftsmen don't make art.

If you lower the bar enough a good plumber is an artist.

This is not to say that a truly superior piece of work by a craftsman cannot become art. A good example is architecture: architects are not artists, they are designers. Buildings are functional, and the more architects try to make them into art the less functional they become, which defeats their very purpose. That being said there are a number of buildings that are recognized as art because they have transcended the confines of architecture while maintaining their practical use (eg. the Eiffel Tower, the Sydney Opera House).
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It’s called “arts and crafts“ for a reason.
 
Nope. Don't give a single shit if 9 million people have the exact same thing as me. A knife is a tool, not art. I value value, ergonomics, materials (in no order). There is NOTHING i need or want a custom designed knife for, as "flexing on the gram" with pics of some super sweet nonsense I've convinced myself is better then off the shelf isn't something i make time in my life for. Add to that the fact most "custom bladesmiths" are hacks and unlikely to be around to honor thier warranty (a story this very forum is full of) and im good with what's available off the shelf. You're certainly free to feel different though. That's the beauty of free will.


Side note- the only reason we strive for "unique" in this hobby today is because the internet has allowed like minded people to post pics of all thier same knives. In real life you don't see sebenzas, hinderers, demkos, etc in daily use. You will maybe see a few benchmades, cold steels, and a ton of import model kershaws, and a SLEW of gas station trash (with owners that are completely happy with them). Id suggest you stop giving into rabid consumerism, and chasing grails that don't exist, but then again, starving "custom makers" need your money to live too.
 
I make I distinction between knives purchased for my collection, and knives puchased for a specific usage. Sometime the line gets blurry though, in such a case I might purchase a user and a collection version. For example, I moved my 1980's Old Timer stockman to my collection recently, so I purchased a user version of the same pattern knife.

As to the theme of my collection, it is folders of historical significance. So while a douk-douk, a laguiole or a Buck 110 make the cut, a high priced mid-tech or custom usually won't. And my users, well I've lost too many of them in my lifetime to spend too much on them, so the bulk of them are high quality, but reasonably priced production knives, think Spyderco's, Cold Steel, Victorinox, Case and Benchmade in the folders category.

So, a long winded answer to say no, I haven't moved to mid-tech or customs.
 
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