MS-Paint CHOP >>> BOSS Street Choil Options

[unwisefool]

I would be all over the boss streets if it did not have a choil. I really like my game warden but have gotten the choil snagged while cutting things many times. Kind of annoying.

 

[MRpink]

KG, good to see you around.

I like the last one, I think a tiny choil like that makes sharpening easier and the transition from ricasso and bevel (plunge line) much cleaner. Sharpening a knife without a choil at all can be pretty painful, you can never get into the groove just right without hitting the ricasso. Not a fan of the elf choil either.

 

[Heyday]

Well.... if it is safe to go with that theory/line of thinking:

The following - especially the second option without any choil - is what I would prefer (no choil and slightly smaller Talon Hole / Guard = only about 1/2" distance from hand to cutting edge vs. about twice that with current guard end elf choil - also, no snagging):

However, if having to modify an existing boss Street Choil to make it a bit more functional, I would probably recommend something like this (not a great photo-chop, but quick):

In the above modification, you don't loose any of the existing sharpened edge, but rather trade the Talon Hole for a functional choil.

It is not a hard modification. Pretty easy actually.

You can do it with a Dremel. But, I personally use a Drill press with a sanding drum attachment. I prefer the Drill press because I can use a bit better sized drum and more importantly, it allows me to hold the knife with both hands vs. Dremel in one hand and knife in the other.

Holding the knife with both hands offers better control. :thumbup:

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After seeing those, I like the elf choil.

 

[Tree Herder V]

I really dig the the second version presented by DWRW :thumbup:
No choil at all is the best in such a small knife. It could be done on Tank Busters, so it could be done on Boss st. :thumbup:

 

[MustardMan]

After seeing those, I like the elf choil.

That right there is the problem. The elf choil is aesthetically pleasing. So for the sake of something that looks prettier, you sacrifice functionality.

 

[DWRW]

KG, good to see you around.

Thanks Pink.... I am still around. I have been lurking mostly lately. I have needed to prioritize some other things and I was given some incentive to do so.

Although, I miss chatting with certain people who I have enjoyed conversing with over the years. :thumbup:

I like the last one, I think a tiny choil like that makes sharpening easier and the transition from ricasso and bevel (plunge line) much cleaner. Sharpening a knife without a choil at all can be pretty painful, you can never get into the groove just right without hitting the ricasso. Not a fan of the elf choil either.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I can appreciate why some might need a sharpening choil - depends on your method for sharpening.

I use a belt sander with both regular belts and leather belts..... I don't want the sharpening choil as I prefer the "Function" without one and I don't need the sharpening choil for my method of sharpening. :thumbup:

But, at least the VERY small sharpening choil doesn't snag nearly as bad and doesn't give up so much otherwise VERY functional cutting edge.

Still, I would rather not have it and still contend that it is VERY easy to add for those who do want it. 2-5 minutes with a Dremel or 10 - 20 minutes with a round file should be a VERY simple modification.

And again, I still contend that both could be offered pretty easily.

After seeing those, I like the elf choil.

That right there is the problem. The elf choil is aesthetically pleasing. So for the sake of something that looks prettier, you sacrifice functionality.

I would probably agree that the elf choil "Looks" nicer...


.... On that note and for that matter, all three could probably be offered.

Elf choils for those who prefer aesthetics over function, collectors, etc. ....

.... And the other two: "small choil" or "no choil" options (* with a bit narrower guard as well!!!) for users. :thumbup:


Personally, "IF" I have to choose between aesthetics and function, I will choose function for myself - EVERY TIME.


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I know many will disagree, but quite honestly, there are MANY nicer "Looking" knives out there.

I own some VERY fine (GORGEOUS!!!) customs that cost less than many comparable Busse knives. Yet, I own many Busse knives because of the quality of steel.

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that MOST Hogs (not so much including the safe queen collectors) appreciated Busse for the end all be all of "PERFORMANCE" provided.

No doubt "Beauty" is in the eye of the beholder and EXTREMELY subjective.

And while performance still seems to be "somewhat" subjective depending on different peoples preferences, ways of using, etc. - at least performance on many levels is a bit less subjective than looks.

Ergos relevant to the large variety of different hand shapes and sizes is even another subject.... but not related to non-functioning choils.

So, while Busse is still the reigning king for all out performance in "Steel" quality, I would think those of us interested in "Performance" would STILL strive for "Other" similar such details in knife "DESIGN" as well that maximize/optimize performance.

Sorry, but I "agree" with MM on this. The elf choils might look aesthetically pleasing, but in NO WAY are the elf choils better for function.

While I keep saying I can appreciate why some might want a small one for sharpening purposes, I have yet to see ANYONE come up with a reasonable arguement as to the "Functional" justification for the size of the "Elf" choils which are too small for the smallest fingers and WAY larger than needed for sharpening.

Preferring an elf choil on aesthetics alone is fine - to each their own - their money and all...

For me, performance DEFINITELY includes the amazing steels and quality heat treat provided by Busse.

But, for me, performance SHOULD "ALSO" include optimizing EVERY other functional aspect of the knife including edge geometry, sharpness, ERGOS of the knife, etc.

When it comes to smaller knives, I tend to be much more particular about little details as every little 1/8" inch starts to be more and more relevant to function.

Elf choils and oversized guards waste as much as 1/2" or MORE of what could be functional knife. From my experience, the elf choils are prone to snagging.

And worse, the Elf choil can't be realistically modified to be fixed or improved.

.... no doubt some will disagree - such is life.

But, that is my opinion and I am confident in my opinion as it applies to "MY" wants and needs..... - whatever that is worth.


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[DWRW]

I would be all over the boss streets if it did not have a choil. I really like my game warden but have gotten the choil snagged while cutting things many times. Kind of annoying.

The Game Warden always felt a bit small in my hand, but no doubt it could have been better without the elf choil.

Personally, I always wanted to like the AD. For me and my uses, the AD would have GREAT potential if not for the elf choils.


Old photo-shops of what they could be:

"removed to prevent issues"



Personally, I think the AD even "LOOKS" better without the elf choils. But, that is me. I am confident it would function better.


In regards to the smaller knives, I could go on and on about smaller knives that would be better "functionally" without Elf choils.

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[DowntownDM]

I like the bottom one in this group best; it seems like the best compromise in all areas (Busse look, choil size/lack of choil, edge-length).

but, I'll be working with a new CG one and its existing choil, so I'll probably make it bigger and actually useful like the bottom one below:

 

[230grains]

If you're going that far, i'd grind off the talon hole.

I'm probably going to be doing the same to mine.

 

[DWRW]

Downtown,

I don't know if you saw my second picture on post #18 or not.

The first picture on that post just shows "Concepts" that can't be modified out of an existing Boss Street.

But, the second picture shows a modification that "CAN" be made with an existing Boss Street.

Here again with your angled pic:

"removed to prevent issues"



If for some reason you want to keep the Talon Hole, then your version is the only option to make a useable choil and just comes down to personal preference.


However, if you can give up the Talon Hole, you can grind your choil into the Talon Hole, grinding away the front portion of the Talon Hole and leave the back portion of the Talon Hole Guard as a smaller guard.

IMO - here are some "functional" benefits I think you would gain:

- Not loose more cutting edge
- Cutting edge closer to normal grip
- Choil would be a much more natural and comfortable short reach with a small guard than reaching over a large guard with the Talon Hole
- Comparably simple modification


Just sharing some thoughts and opinions and trying to make sure you understood an alternate options.

In any event, good luck making your Boss Street the best possible option for your needs. :thumbup:

Post some pics when you get it done.

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[DowntownDM]

I appreciate the comments and discussion.

I have no beef with the talon holes, I rather like them, but I do want to see the choil reduced to near-nothingness or make it big enough to be useful (specifically - to fit my finger). and I like choils, from a sharpening and grip perspective, but they better be right.

so, based on my priorities (which are full of compromises) - I'll most likely end up with the second one in my pic. I also happen to like the HACKs with the big choils, so this (in terms of form and function) is ok with me given what I have to work with (stock CG)...

bearing in mind, it'll also get stripped and given a satin treatment as well as a thinned out full-height convex grind.

now I just need to find someone to do the work (once the knife itself comes)...

 

[iamtoast]

I wonder how well the no choil option did with the tankbuster. It is my impression from looking at the posted pics that close to 80% were purchased with the choil. Granted it is a different knife in a different size category but the apparent lack of purchased of the choiless version may have hurt the option for the future.

 

[LMT66]

This is why I only have 3 remaining Busse EDC blades and they may be sold off. That choil snagged everything I cut and I use a blade all day at work. The AD's are particularly bad for snagging in a reverse grip. Try cutting shrinkwrap or strapping with a reverse grip all day. It's very annoying to the point that I end up going back to my tractor for a folder with no choil.
Why have all those cool EDC INFI blades if they fail to make my job easier?

If Busse started making all the small EDC type blades like the bottom AD in the picture below, I'd only have Busse's. There would be no need to own any other brand.

 

[MustardMan]

I wonder how well the no choil option did with the tankbuster. It is my impression from looking at the posted pics that close to 80% were purchased with the choil. Granted it is a different knife in a different size category but the apparent lack of purchased of the choiless version may have hurt the option for the future.

That's my worry as well - the tank buster is a large enough knife that the choil is at least a reasonably useful option. I think I might even choose the choiled version if I bought a TB.

I would hate to have the statistics of that knife ruin our chances at choil free small blades.

Honestly I think we're just banging our heads against the wall here, though. Jerry sold plenty of AD's and meaners with useless elf choils, so there's not much incentive to drop them.


I had several small Busse's with the elf choils, and sold them all except the Active Duty.

The only reason I've held onto that AD, honestly, is because it's coated in Bama Clay. If I use it as much as I hope to, I will probably end up rounding out the choil.

 

[Last Visible Canary]

That is a HARSH statement.... yet I agree and have been saying so for years now - albiet with efforts to be less harsh with my wording.

They are the bane of any compact knife package, a design flaw that should never be added under any circumstance unless the knife is made purely for aesthetics.

seriously.

hmmm, I remember prohibitions/requests for instances like contests and feedback on upcoming designs - but honestly don't recall an overall blanket policy (for lack of a better, less official-y, term).

this seemed different, since there are actual photos of modded knives like these floating around here. in any case, no disrespect intended and I'll remove 'em if he/they ask me to. thanks for the heads-up RG.

The idea is that if jerry ever wanted to make a knife that fit the design specifications of someone's previously posted photoshop, he would potentially have to contend with "but I designed that" from the poster. In theory it's better to avoid the whole situation entirely by keeping design modifications verbal only.

at least, that's the idea. You may be right about the request being for specific situations only though

 

[DWRW]

Why have all those cool EDC INFI blades if they fail to make my job easier?

I have owned quite a few Sub 5" Busse blades over the years. But, sold ALL except one.

Oddly, the only one I still have is the one Jerry hated - the SAR5.

I still feel the SAR5 has too large a handle, but it is the only one I can at least some day strip the coating and modify the handle to make a very good knife. IMO - I see no need to modify the blade other than to strip and put a good convex edge on it. The guard and ricasso on the SAR5 are good to go. :thumbup:

If Busse started making all the small EDC type blades like the bottom AD in the picture below, I'd only have Busse's. There would be no need to own any other brand.

Fairly true. I do like satin finishes though and tire of paying so much for a CG that I have to work so hard to strip and satin finish. - So, price and effort to make how I want it finish wise is still a factor for me. But, otherwise, I would agree.

 

[DWRW]

That's my worry as well - the tank buster is a large enough knife that the choil is at least a reasonably useful option. I think I might even choose the choiled version if I bought a TB.

I would hate to have the statistics of that knife ruin our chances at choil free small blades.

Honestly I think we're just banging our heads against the wall here, though. Jerry sold plenty of AD's and meaners with useless elf choils, so there's not much incentive to drop them.

.... Sadly... +1

I had several small Busse's with the elf choils, and sold them all except the Active Duty.

I had two AD's had two different times. I kept hoping I could deal with the choil or find a way to modify it to make it work. But, I didn't like my modification limitations and ultimately sold both.

As I mentioned above, my only smaller blade from Busse is my SAR5.
Next smallest is my SJTAC and larger blades from there - where I don't mind the choils.

I have a LOT of Swamp Rat and Scrap Yard knives - some even with choils - even if I might prefer without, at least the Swamp Rat and Scrap Yard choils are functional if so needed. :thumbup:

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[Raining]

This is why I only have 3 remaining Busse EDC blades and they may be sold off. That choil snagged everything I cut and I use a blade all day at work.

Agreed. I no longer have any small Busses due to the snagging factor of the elf choil.

I would be all over a Busse EDC with no choil. Dreaming...

 

[DWRW]

They are the bane of any compact knife package, a design flaw that should never be added under any circumstance unless the knife is made purely for aesthetics.

seriously.

Honestly... I have to agree.

The idea is that if jerry ever wanted to make a knife that fit the design specifications of someone's previously posted photoshop, he would potentially have to contend with "but I designed that" from the poster. In theory it's better to avoid the whole situation entirely by keeping design modifications verbal only.

at least, that's the idea. You may be right about the request being for specific situations only though

I just want designs that I like. I don't want credit for designs just because I "Suggest" something with a photoshop concept.

I have told Jerry that I would be VERY happy to sign some sort of waiver for any "Sketch" I might come up with.

He can make me an honorary employee or find MANY different ways to waive my rights towards claims to knives produced.... whatever.


That said, the concept AD above was posted many times a long time ago. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have posted.

Hopefully, the Boss Street photoshop will slide.

For the record, Dan made a post that EVERY single possible variation of EVERY Busse and kin knife has been made in house already one way or another...... (sketched, proto, etc. ????? whatever.... ????)


So, the Busse brothers have it covered and nothing to worry about.


Seriously, I just want to help get designs I like. From my perspective, I just consider it visual voting.

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[DWRW]

Agreed. I no longer have any small Busses due to the snagging factor of the elf choil.

I would be all over a Busse EDC with no choil. Dreaming...

I sense this turning into an "Honesty" thread. :thumbup: