Mule Team Project / Will it continue ?

[teacher]

First of I would like to give a big "Thank You" to Spyderco, Sal G., and anyone associated with Spyderco that made this possible..... as far as I know this is a rare happening for a company to do something like this... rare for any company....... but ground breaking in the knife industry as far as I know.

It is also a rare opportunity for us, the end user to be involved. We get to try different steels at a very, very economical prices.... the only way many will ever get the chance to have them.

That said, I do hope we on the receiving end keep this in mind. Opinions are like posteriors.... everybody has one. When they are asked for, as Sal has graciously done as he contemplates which steels to use...... by all means give your opinions as he asked.

However, when the decision has been made..... go with it.... whatever it is. Don't moan & groan & gripe & cry or get mad. Don't say with your lip poked out.... I just won't get it to "heck" with it .....

Go with the choice..... support this project.
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The below, I copied & pasted here from the Spyderco Forum........ any enhancements & color ... I added myself ........
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#46 Yesterday, 05:54 PM
gaj999
Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 20

Quote:
Originally Posted by sal
We'll need to improve the way they go out. Too much stress and error on this first release. If we do a "pre sign up", we'll have to do a deposit thing, combined with record keeping really adds more processing costs.
sal

How much complexity is added if we give SFO a credit card number with the understanding that when a new mule is ready, it will be shipped to us and our card will be charged? I'm more than willing to do this and it would reduce my fear of missing out on a run. It adds risk for those who want to pick and choose runs and gives some priority to those who are willing to commit to one(or more) of each, but all systems have trade offs. At least this way, you don't have to mess with deposits. The burden of updating CC info when cards expire would mostly fall on the customer, although SFO would have to be involved to some extent. One benefit of this approach is perhaps a better feel for the number of mules that are pretty certain to sell, which could be important if some steels are going to need to have bigger runs.

Gordon
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This above is a concern Sal posted and a reply by Gordon ..."gaj999". You can read it for yourself ans below are my simple thoughts.

Of course I have no connedtion with Spyderco beyond being an end user, just like most of you reading this.

However, as I have stated earkier...... I appreciate greatly what they are doing here. I also recognise their need to keep it as simple as possible for a project of this magnitude..... because they are trying to keep the cost down to us, the end user.

LET US NOT FORGET THAT Folks........

I personally will commit to this project no matter what the steel is.... for as many as you do each year ... for as long as you do them. no questions asked.

I have a feeling I am not alone in that thought either.

I trust the FSO enough to give them my Credit Card information when I order. So I surely would trust them enough to keep it on file, charge the card, and send me the knives when they come out. I personally don't care if you inform me or not. Just send them on ....

If we need to or have the option to pay up front..... that would be fine also with me... preferred even.

Anyway, I for one am willing to do whatever you all need too be done to make this function in a smooth way as far as distribution goes.... or anything else for that matter.

Again, to all involved with Spyderco.... Thank You.

To all of us "end users"....... please let us remember this is a rare opportunity we have........ let's not screw it up.....

Ya'll have a good one......... :thumbup:

The above thoughts are mine... except fpr the quotes...
If you agree .... good.
If you don't .... sorry
However, in the end the "final call"... will be made by Spyderco ... let's help in any way we can to make it go smooth........ :thumbup:

 

[The Deacon]

Another point to bear in mind is that there will be far fewer pieces of any future run held aside for Collector's Club members. Every CC member received the first one, that's 200 knives, or close to it. On future runs, only enough knives will be reserved to supply those "all variant" collectors who have specifically "opted in" to receive them all by filling out the form which they received with their first Mule and returning it to Spyderco.

While I have no way to know for sure, I'd guess that will mean at least 100 more pieces available for non club members. As for how to distribute those knives, given the prices a couple of them brought there, perhaps Sal ought to take a cue for Peter Atwood and sell them on eBay himself.

Another possibility, since the concept appears to be popular, perhaps a "Mules Only" club option could be created. Rules could be simple:

• No numbering, just a guarantee you'll get a knife.
• One knife per "member".
• One "membership" per address.
• Two weeks to respond with payment to an email sent out 4 weeks before each release is expected to be ready for shipment.
• "Miss and out" - if you refuse one knife, your membership is terminated.
• Member's responsibility to keep their contact, payment, and shipping information up to date and operational.
• Spyderco free to cap membership at a specific number, or to set a cutoff date for joining.

Any unsubscribed knives can then be sold through SFO online. Might also be time for Spyderco to look into PayPal as a payment option, and factor their fees into the price structure of the Mules.


Paul

My Personal Website - - - - - - A Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting - - - - - - Kiwimania
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
Spyderco Collector # 043 - - WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam

 

[Halfneck]

1 Mule per person. This will avoid someone buying it then re-selling it at a profit when the run is sold out. Also ensures that if they are using it, 1 knife sees all the use. The Mule is meant to be used and feedback given remember?

Pass on any steel you are not interested in. If you are not a fan of BG-42, don't get a knife in it.

Sign-up for the Mule Team. Those members then get 1st access to the Mules. Left-over get sold through SFO. Don't make it where someone signed up has to get it, a person's financial situation can change. I'm guilty here, I did not participate in the initial Mule sign-up discussions, then when I saw it for sale I got one. I can understand people being upset, but nothing I read guaranteed them they were getting one.

Personally I think the difficulty of getting one will go down as they come out. This was the initial one so interest was high. Somewhere by the 3rd or 4th one I could see it slipping.

 

[teacher]

Maybe all you say is right The Deacon.

I know nothing of the "collector".. nor is that what this thread was / is about.

It is about keeping it SIMPLE ... bottom line...... REAL SIMPLE.

There is, I would imagine; a large group of people that would say right now...

"Whatever they are... whenever they are... I want them.... I will commit to [ what ever # they want or whatever the LIMIT]

With a Credit Card on file and / or Pre-payment...... whichever ..... there would be no question about it or having to constantly look at the internet to hopefully not miss when they were going on sale or the SFO having to email or receive emails.

This option [if it were made aviable] might not be for everybody..... they could choose.

BUT, for the ones that wanted it..... it could / would be less work for everyone involved ---- from the SFO right down to the end user.

Of course I realize Spyderco has the say so of what is done.

But there are many of us who know right now we want them, whatever they are... whenever they come out... period .... end of story.

We are willing to do whatever it takes to make that an easy, simple process. We have no need to discuss it or think further about it.

Have a good one....... :thumbup:

ps / It reminds me of when I taught school. Every Monday afternoon we had a faculity meeting. The principal usually had about 3 to 5 minutes of things he needed to tell us...... real simple.

BUT... by the time a few got through argueing with him and discussing what he had to say and on and on..... it took over an hour.........

Well after a few short weeks of that he started a new approach...... :thumbup: ...... He came in and said... "Here is what I have to say. DO NOT ask questions untill after I am through".
He then said what he had to say in a short and sweet manner. He then told the ones that ujnderstood they were free to go...... AND A FEW OF US DID....

He then told the ones that were left with "questions"... to have at it and they sat there for another hour or so with him going "back & forth".... rehashing, argueing, "discussing"... and on & on. ???????

He was a patient man to stay there with them... that is all I can say.....

And he continued this for the years he was principal .......

I am only suggesting the SIMPLE option for those that can handle it ....
.............. Should Spyderco decide to offer it of course...... :thumbup:

 

[teacher]

1 Mule per person. This will avoid someone buying it then re-selling it at a profit when the run is sold out. Also ensures that if they are using it, 1 knife sees all the use. The Mule is meant to be used and feedback given remember?
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Personally I think the difficulty of getting one will go down as they come out. This was the initial one so interest was high. Somewhere by the 3rd or 4th one I could see it slipping.

If one is what you want, get one.

If Spyderco sets a limit of two, there are many who will want two. I myself want two........ one for me and the other to GIVE to different guys in my hunting club & friends.... after I have put handles on them & made a simple sheath.

That is what this is about, you are correct.... having the knives used and it also introduces others to Spyderco that may not be familiar with the fine knives they make.

And as far as what you say about you seeing this "slipping" by the 3rd or 4th one. I will not even comment on that statement.

TO ME.... to me mind you.. that shows a total lack of commitment to the spirit of this project.

 

[yablanowitz]

Part of the problem with the first release was misconception and misunderstanding on the part of a number of people here. Many seemed to be under the impression they had signed up for the program. THEY HAD NOT. There was no sign-up. There were hints that it might be handled that way, but there never was a sign-up.

When Sal was trying to gauge interest, they asked us to e-mail them. They wanted to know IF we would be willing to commit to the project, and at what level - entire run or selected pieces. Many people seemed to think they were being asked to commit right then, with no idea what kind of pricetag it would carry. THEY WERE NOT. It is possible that they could have worded things better, although it seemed clear enough to me.

The e-mail response was so light that the project almost died right there. I got the impression Sal had visions of having half the run sitting in the warehouse until they rusted away. Of course the actual response caught them off-guard. If less than two hundred people had expressed interest in a planned six hundred piece run, why would they expect fifty pieces to sell in an hour? Why would they transfer four hundred pieces to SFO inventory immediately if they didn't expect to sell two hundred total?

I got mine out of the first batch. How? By checking the New Knives section on their website a minimum of six times a day for a month to see if they were up yet, and ordering the second I saw them. I am interested in this project, and I had told them so, but I knew it was up to me to get my knives ordered, not Spyderco. Their job is to make them and sell them, which they did.

Yes, I did buy two. I posted here and said in my interest e-mail that I am in for two each of anything they put out. I have no intention of selling one at a huge profit. I intend to beat hell out of one, try different edge angles to find out what works best for me with that steel, then put that angle and some scales on the second one so I will (just for a change) have a user that doesn't look like it had been through Armageddon.

Sorry about the rant, but all the whining I've been reading has really gotten up my nose. I'd love to see the project go forward, and I'm glad the response to the actual release of the first piece was so favorable, but with the attitudes on display, I wouldn't blame Sal if he dropped the whole thing.

 

[carrot]

I plan to get one of every Mule. If there's some with steels I know I'm going to really enjoy, and we're still allowed to get two, I'll get a second one. I really want to see this project succeed because it means as ELU's we'll get to see many more steels than most of us ever would normally get exposure to, and Spyderco will be able to learn from the experience of working with new steels to bring us new knives with even better steel.

 

[teacher]

Part of the ( ----------------)

I got mine out of the first batch. How? By checking the New Knives section on their website a minimum of six times a day for a month to see if they were up yet, and ordering the second I saw them. I am interested in this project, and I had told them so, but I knew it was up to me to get my knives ordered, not Spyderco. Their job is to make them and sell them, which they did.

Yes, I did buy two. I posted here and said in my interest e-mail that I am in for two each of anything they put out. I have no intention of selling one at a huge profit. I intend to beat hell out of one, try different edge angles to find out what works best for me with that steel, then put that angle and some scales on the second one so I will (just for a change) have a user that doesn't look like it had been through Armageddon.

Sorry about the rant, but all the whining I've been reading has really gotten up my nose. I'd love to see the project go forward, and I'm glad the response to the actual release of the first piece was so favorable, but with the attitudes on display, I wouldn't blame Sal if he dropped the whole thing.

I just quoted part of you post yablanowitz , but I hear ya'. I understand what you are saying.....

As with any "new" project or program though..... no matter what the venue... there are things & "problems" to be worked out. All of them cannot be seen or anticipated from the outset usually. Therefore, as I am sure you already know... adjustments have to be made.... totally understandable.

One reason I posted this is because. like you; I am very interested in seeing this Mule Team Project suceed. I found out about it at a later date and as soon as I did emailed my total support also. I have always liked Spyderco knives from afar and have several.... a Spyderco Rescue is probably the most carried knife I have..... soon to be replaced by a SALT though..

Anyway, when I found out about this project and some details on it.. it truly and honestly gave me a newfound respect for Spyderco.
They are pretty much at the top of my short list now.

Honestly..... has anyone else ever seen any knife company do something like this ?

And I am not real smart..... BUT, I gaurantee you there is a lot more to this behind the scenes than we, the "end user"...... will ever know.

Spyderco ie to be commended for this project..... Period ... end of story !

So, I guess I have said all that to say this ....... I totally agree with you.

I hope all the attitudes and whining -- what there is-----ceases.

I really hope this project stays on track and continues forward.

And yes ..Spyderco will have to decide what is the simplest method for them to do that.

BUT ....I truly hope the ones that post here on this thread will be the ones that are committed to doing whatever that turns out to be... :thumbup:

Thank you..........

 

[choubbi]

I plan to get at least the 4-5 next mules, if I have enough money at the time they are released (and if the mule project is successful enough that they make 4-5 more).
what saddens me is to pay, each time, more for international shipping (even excluding taxes) than for the knife, but I still want to order the other mules, even at three times the original price, they are still very impressive knives that I'll be happy to test new steels with.

 

[yablanowitz]

I plan to get at least the 4-5 next mules, if I have enough money at the time they are released (and if the mule project is successful enough that they make 4-5 more).
what saddens me is to pay, each time, more for international shipping (even excluding taxes) than for the knife, but I still want to order the other mules, even at three times the original price, they are still very impressive knives that I'll be happy to test new steels with.

I would be willing to bet that there is at least one person here willing to help you with the shipping problem. One possible solution is to have someone like me receive the knives for you, store them until there are three or four, and then send them to you all together in one package. You wouldn't get to play with them as soon, but it would save you about a hundred bucks on shipping.

 

[choubbi]

I would be willing to bet that there is at least one person here willing to help you with the shipping problem. One possible solution is to have someone like me receive the knives for you, store them until there are three or four, and then send them to you all together in one package. You wouldn't get to play with them as soon, but it would save you about a hundred bucks on shipping.

That would be very gentlemanly of anyone who would be willing to do that.
I guess I could balance it by shipping stuff from France to this guy.
If anyone is willing to help me, please send me a PM.

 

[JacksonKnives]

Consolidation of International shipping as definitely nice, but holding on to the Mules until you've got three or four might not be worth it... You'd be waiting a long time and saving, what, ten bucks on each knife? If you could find other Steel Snobs interested in the project and consolidate 3-4 orders into one shipment, that would make a lot more sense.

I, for one, am in favor of the two-piece limit as it was for MT01, as I needed to order one for my brother as well. (We're at different schools right now, and technically in different households, but it's much easier for me to take delivery and give him his Mule the next time I see him.) I'm sure there are plenty of others in the same boat.

 

[J33psru1e]

....

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

I got one, nice knife and I hope to see more in the near future.

 

[Halfneck]

If one is what you want, get one.

If Spyderco sets a limit of two, there are many who will want two. I myself want two........ one for me and the other to GIVE to different guys in my hunting club & friends.... after I have put handles on them & made a simple sheath.

That is what this is about, you are correct.... having the knives used and it also introduces others to Spyderco that may not be familiar with the fine knives they make.

And as far as what you say about you seeing this "slipping" by the 3rd or 4th one. I will not even comment on that statement.

TO ME.... to me mind you.. that shows a total lack of commitment to the spirit of this project.

You misunderstood what I posted. I meant that by the 3rd or 4th run I can see the people buying to instantly flip it starting to lose interest.

 

[choubbi]

Consolidation of International shipping as definitely nice, but holding on to the Mules until you've got three or four might not be worth it... You'd be waiting a long time and saving, what, ten bucks on each knife? If you could find other Steel Snobs interested in the project and consolidate 3-4 orders into one shipment, that would make a lot more sense.

In fact if I could find somebody willing to help me, I'd rather have him send each mule when he receives it, I think it would be less than $20, that would be much more comfortable, anyway I don't think I'd have the patience to wait 3 new mule releases to get all 3 of them.
I don't know anybody in France who has the same addiction to Spyderco knives (they surely exist, I' just don't know them), if they read this post and are willing to share the mule orders, I'd be happy to do so.
The biggest saving I'm looking for would be the shipping, with UPS through Spyderco's website, one mule costs me $90, if somebody shipped it to me with USPS for, let's say $15, it would cost me $55. I would also have to pay VAT on $55 instead of $90, which leads me to about $90(USPS) instead of $130(UPS). That being said, with USPS most parcels under $100 seem to slip through the customs without taxes being asked for, so I guess most of the times that would just cost me $55 instead of $130.

I really hope that the mule project will continue and be profitable to Spyderco. I don't see reasons why it shouldn't work, though, such a comfortable handle (once scales/paracord put on, though) and such a thin flat ground blade just screams to it's owner to use it. He just has to give his feedback to spyderco, I hope most of the mule team members will do so.

 

[The Deacon]

Maybe all you say is right The Deacon.

I know nothing of the "collector".. nor is that what this thread was / is about.

It is about keeping it SIMPLE ... bottom line...... REAL SIMPLE.

I mentioned the Collectors Club as it currently exists only to point out that its membership represented a rather significant portion of the sales of the first batch and to note that it's impact on future batches should be considerably less because of its structure and the way future Mules will be offered to its members.

As for the rest, if you can get past the words, "Mules Only" club option in my post, you might realize that what I describe is, in fact, very similar to what you are suggesting, except mine contains no "pre-pay" option. That was an intentional omission on my part. My feeling is that pre-payment would add several layers of logistical issues for Spyderco, foremost being that the price of a given piece may not be known until the batch is nearly ready to ship. Federal and state laws governing how long before shipment someone's credit card can legally be charged for merchandise might also be of some concern.

My thinking, which may very well be flawed, is that everyone, or very close to everyone, with enough interest in this project to participate in it checks their primary email at least once every two weeks. So, in my own way I was "keeping it simple", I would have to conclude from your reaction to it that our idea of simple is just a bit different. At any rate, it was just a suggestion, and, for whatever it's worth, one made by someone with no dog in this fight. I trust Sal to read through all the suggestions made here, adopt any he feels useful, adapt some that might be useful with a bit of tweaking, and politely ignore the rest.

Paul

My Personal Website - - - - - - A Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting - - - - - - Kiwimania
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
Spyderco Collector # 043 - - WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam

 

[hardheart]

Maybe the year's worth of mules could be planned out. Y'know, instead of choosing the next steel, chose the next 3 or so. That way, people could commit earlier if they are basing decisions on the steels, not to just collect all the mules/all the Spyderco fixed blades/all the Spyders in general/etc. If they're air-cooled steels, I would guess that as long as the steel gets delivered on time it would go more smoothly now that a run of the mule has been produced.

Depends on what gets used. I've seen VG-10 mentioned. I don't think I need a mule to form an opinion on Spyderco branded VG-10, and I'd hate to potentially miss out on a follow-up steel by being eliminated from a sign-up for not buying it. People may feel that way about other steels, I dunno.

 

[jaislandboy]

howdy teacher, yeah it seems the Mule Team project got off to a raucous start the concept to me seems better than "sliced bread" and I surely hope this project continues as things get "ironed out" and evolve....like the aforementioned standardization of the pin holes, etc....
I like hardhearts suggestion about selecting the next 3 steels or so to make everyone's life much easier..... it seems like Spyderco hit "this one outta the ballpark" too :thumbup:

 

[choubbi]

I'm not looking for help for the mule team shipping anymore, Paul "The Deacon" was kind enough to offer me his help. Thanks again Paul!
This way I'm sure I'll stay in the mule program for some more knives, and if I can, the totality of it.

The "mule only" club sounds like a good idea to me, it would be a good solution for those who don't read the spyderco.com's forum 3 times a day, to avoid missing a mule release.