Municipal Codes

[TOM1960]

Hello all! Been reading these forums for some time and finally made the decision to join because I have a question of my own to ask. I recently moved to a new city, and with that, I am now under new laws regarding knives, etc.
Below I have pasted the Municipal Codes on so-called "Dangerous Weapons":::

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Chapter 10.12 DANGEROUS WEAPONS
Note
* As to carrying dangerous or deadly weapons concealed, see § 10.12.020. As to use of firearms in parks, see § 14.08.050.

10.12.010 Definition.
A dangerous or deadly weapon is defined as and includes, but is not limited to any dirk, dagger, any knife with a blade three inches or more in length, any snap-blade or spring-blade knife, regardless of the length of the blade, any ice pick or similar sharp-stabbing tool, any straight-edge razor or any razor blade fitted to a handle, any dangerous or deadly weapon within the meaning of any law of this state restricting the use thereof, and any cutting, stabbing or bludgeoning weapon or device capable of inflicting grievous bodily harm and any firearm other than one carried pursuant to a valid permit issued by a duly authorized government authority or an ordinary rifle or shotgun lawfully carried for the purpose of hunting or other lawful sport. (Prior code § 18-8)

10.12.020 Carrying concealed weapons.
No person shall be or appear on or within any street, alley, sidewalk, parkway or any public place or place open to public view while carrying concealed upon his person or having in his immediate possession any dangerous weapon.
The restrictions contained in this section shall not be deemed to prohibit the carrying of or having possession of ordinary tools or equipment carried by any person in connection with his trade, employment, business or profession or for the purpose of legitimate sport or recreation. (Prior code § 18-9)

10.12.030 Discharge of firearms within city—Possession by minors in public.
(a) No person shall shoot or discharge any gun, pistol or firearm or any air gun or pistol or any spring gun or pistol or any device that shoots or propels pellets or missiles by any means, unless such person shall first have obtained a written permit from the police department to discharge such firearm or other device within the city.
(b) It is unlawful for any person to allow or permit a minor under eighteen years of age to have or to carry any gun or device set forth in this section upon any public thoroughfare or upon any public property or in any vehicle within the city.
(c) It is unlawful to sell, give away, barter, or trade, any gun, pistol, or firearms or any air gun or pistol or any spring gun or pistol or any device that shoots or propels pellets or missiles by any means, to any minor under the age of eighteen years.
(d) It is unlawful to sell, give away, barter, or trade any ammunition, pellets, missiles or any device used for shooting from pistols, guns or firearms, or any springloaded gun or pistol or device that shoots or propels or missiles by any means to any person under the age of eighteen (18) years without the written consent of the police department.
(e) It is unlawful for any parent, juvenile, or any person to transport or have shipped into the city any of the abovementioned items for the use of any person under the age of eighteen (18) years.
(f) Nothing in this section shall be deemed to prohibit any person from carrying or transporting a rifle, shotgun, spring gun, pellet gun, airgun, or other firearm to any bona fide target range or while going to or returning from a hunting trip or other lawful sport. (Ord. 71-O-129 §§ 1, 2, 1971; prior code § 18-16)

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I have read over the codes several times, but I'm confused because I am not exactly sure if my concept of a term is the same as the lawmakers. For example, when they say, "any cutting, stabbing or bludgeoning weapon or device capable of inflicting grievous bodily harm" what do they actually mean. Any knife could kill somebody if used right, so, is this line considering all knives to be "dangerous weapons." And also, they say, "Spring-blade knife." How far are they taking that phrase. Switchblade? AO knife? or basically any knife?, because even average lockback knives use a bar that acts like a spring to lock the blade open.

Also, when they say in 10.12.020, " immediate possession " what does that mean? Does this mean that you can't carry any knife on you at all if your an average person? And if not any knife, if it does qualify as being a dangerous weapon under the 3 inches or more blade length clause, is it considered to be in immediate possession if in a pocket or in a sheath on the belt?

Also the part about "aforementioned items" in 10.12.030 (e) applies only to 10.12.030 and not the before-that-mentioned knives, correct?

In addition, I am a minor. However, in about a year I turn 18, so when you answer, please tell me how things might be different depending on that. Also please note that I am going to contact the police department to ascertain the exact definitions, etc, but I before I do that, I want to ask you guys what you think so I can understand the situation a little bit better. Also, since I am new to this, forgive me if I posted this in the wrong section of this forum.

Thank you all for your help! I know that was a lot to read, but if you help me, it is greatly appreciated!


Peace out.

If you are underage, why not just carry a Leatherman or similar multi-tool? There will be absolutely zero chance of getting hassled by LEOs for that. Another good choice is a Swiss Army type knife or a 3-bladed non-locking stockman type knife with a 2.5" blade. Whatever you choose, keep it well-concealed and you should not have any problems with LEOs.

 

[risen]

...check out the company/maker of your knife. Go to their website and see if they've got a PDF doc listing all the specs of your model. Download it, print it out in reduced size (so it doesn't take up much space in your wallet), and always carry it with you.

*If* an officer was to ask about your knife, show him/her the specs. I believe the officer would appreciate it, and it'll help keep the whole situation more mutual.

Btw, it helps if the spec sheet shows a pic of your knife model. It's such a simple thing to do with questionable knife models, but goes a long way towards helping to prevent confusion.

Hate to reply to & quote myself, but I just thought of something.

If you don't want to carry around an extra piece of paper in your wallet, and if you have cell phone that can access the Web, you could just bookmark the knife company/maker website on your phone, specifically the page showing pics & specs of your knife model (showing blade length), and show that to the cop. That way, a cop could see that the specs are legit.

Hope this is useful.

 

[wolfindagger]

Thank you Risen and MORIMOTOM for your help!

Risen, yep, Placentia. How'd you know? Lol. So the laws are state laws plus Municipal codes only? That's good, simplifies things for me. I thought I remembered hearing somewhere that OC has no county knife laws, but couldn't remember where. Good to have validation on that.

Quote: Risen:
“The main thing is that it not be an "illegal weapon"”

Since the code defines what a dangerous weapon is, and does not say it is illegal to own, and is only illegal if carried in immediate possession or concealed, any dangerous weapon that complies with state legislation can be legally possessed in the city, right? So for instance, as an example, a six inch bowie knife that is legal under state law but far exceeding the 3 inch limit in my municipality would be completely legal as long as it stays in the house?

good tip about the spec sheet, thats a really good idea. Unfortunately my EDC knife (which I have yet to carried in public here because of the confusion), is a nameless lockback manufactured in China. It's not the best quality, but is decent for everyday utility cutting needs. I always keep it with me because it was my first knife and was given to me by my father and I'm rather fond of it because of the sentimental value. I will definitely print up spec sheets on the other brand name knives I have.
Good idea too about the cell phone. I actually do not have one, but if I ever get one, will remember that tip.

Quote: TOM1960:
“If you are underage, why not just carry a Leatherman or similar multi-tool? There will be absolutely zero chance of getting hassled by LEOs for that. Another good choice is a Swiss Army type knife...”

Yes, I have two Swiss Army Knives, a Victorinox Tinker and a Victorinox Classic SD. Despite them being so dang useful, I prefer my lockback as a primary EDC knife. Increasingly more so however, I have begun carrying the Classic as a secondary or tertiary EDC blade/tool.

Peace Out.

 

[risen]

Thank you Risen and MORIMOTOM for your help!

You're welcome.

Risen, yep, Placentia. How'd you know?

The codes you cited.

So the laws are state laws plus Municipal codes only?

In your case, for the purpose/s of this topic, yes, I believe.

Since the code defines what a dangerous weapon is, and does not say it is illegal to own, and is only illegal if carried in immediate possession or concealed, any dangerous weapon that complies with state legislation can be legally possessed in the city, right?

I think you mean owned/in the home? If so, yes, I believe.

So for instance, as an example, a six inch bowie knife that is legal under state law but far exceeding the 3 inch limit in my municipality would be completely legal as long as it stays in the house?

I believe so. Btw, in the codes you cited, it reads "...with a blade three inches or more in length...", so, remember, your EDC blade should be under 3", I think.

Unfortunately my EDC knife (which I have yet to carried in public here because of the confusion), is a nameless lockback manufactured in China.

I think as long as your knife is clearly under 3", you should be fine. If it's close, measure accurately. Take a pic of your knife alongside a ruler. Print it out and carry it in your wallet.

After everything that's been said, *if* your knife is very, very close to 3", I'd recommend against carrying it if you can't get official/documented specs on it. Not worth the hassle.

If you carry it anyway, and it was determined to be right at 3", it's on you. As for what would then happen, dunno. Depends on the cop and/or other people involved in the case after that, if it got that far. I mean, an officer might just confiscate it and let you off with a warning. There might be an infraction, or it could go to a misdemeanor, initially (then maybe be reduced to an infraction). If it's just for possession, you shouldn't have to worry about a felony. Don't think cities can do that if a knife is legal under State Codes. Can't recall, would have to check.