Musings on The Traditional, Slip-Joint knife

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Posted this before, I think in reply to another thread. Anyway, don't think it was widely read..


There was a time when every man in England, America and most of the Western World carried a pocket knife. Until very recently in fact every man from office clerk to farm labourer carried a folding knife of one form or another. Theirs was the refinement of a tradition leading back hundreds if not thousands of years of the small fixed blade, used for minor cutting tasks, food preparation, eating etc. For the farm labourer the spay blade of his stockman would be used for its intended purpose and its drop-point for the eating of an apple within the same half an hour, with little more than a quick rinse in the horse trough between. In his book The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists Robert Noonan describes how his chief protagonist and socialist Frank Owen urges his workmates to produce their pocket knives, and uses them as a metaphor by which to explain the capitalist system under which they are said to be the victims. The knives are the ‘machine’ by which the bread is divided and the capitalist ‘money trick’ is performed. Every man amongst the bedraggled workforce produces his knife, though at this time (around 1910) and as the book graphically describes, God knows they had little else. The folding knife was an essential, useful and highly valued item to the working man.

And so the same knife, used for the sharpening of a pencil and the cutting of a bit of bread and cheese at lunchtime, stayed in the pocket of the average working man during his leisure. Perhaps whilst fishing his folder would be there for trimming the line and cleaning the catch, or gutting the odd rabbit as a welcome treat for dinner. By the fireside in the evening it might have been used to whittle a small doll or toy as a present for one of the children. I have been lucky enough to have inherited my Grandfather’s pocket knife which he had from his father, as well as those belonging to both of my Great Uncles. For me, with a proud working class history, these knives are full of such wonderful connotations.

There is something else, also, in owning a traditional slip-joint, particularly an inherited one. For most of us our distant ancestry is as hunter, gatherer tribe’s people. As such, a knife or a blade would have had two main functions: as a means to prepare food and as a weapon. Such things, when handed down, would have taken on distinct talismanic qualities, providing a strong and powerful link to the past, a grounding in the present as well as faith and direction for the future. The story of The Sword in the Stone is a good example of how such notions still remain pertinent to us today.

Some might say it is ridiculous to imagine that there might be anything genetic in our appreciation and desire for a good knife. But when you consider that once upon a time a fire and a decent cutting edge were our most vital and valued tools, the control of which enabled us, ultimately, to survive as independent human beings, it becomes quite understandable to think that, somehow, some of that appreciation still resides instinctively within us. As when one feels the pull of that first fish of the season and something indescribable and almost primeval is felt pulling on the line, something from our distant past which I have come to believe pertains to the ancient hunter/survivor in us, so it is when we take up our traditional slip-joints.

When my Great Grandad and my Great Uncles chose their knives they did so on the basis of build quality, fitness for purpose and value for money. For me they got it right, and I personally feel no desire to reinvent the wheel on that one. To go over to anything other than a traditional pattern would feel like breaking with the traditions and the history that I find so pleasing. Every time I use my slip-joint I connect with something both important yet basic...and it feels right.

- Mark
Untitled by Mark Saunders, on Flickr
Untitled by Mark Saunders, on Flickr

My Grandad's and my Great Uncle's penknives.
 
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Excellent post Mark :thumbsup: I think subconsciously we do inherit memories of our past ancestors good and bad, it explains a lot of behaviours ;)

You are fortunate to be the inheritor of your ancestors' knives because working knives, although treasured, were likely to be used up. Or, when a person dies, unthinking relatives might need to clean out 'all that old stuff' so it all got lost .

A knife is a companion, a highly useful tool and for enthusiasts throughout the ages a thing of dignity. The latter particularly so in the case of those facing adversities. Dickens in Great Expectations mentions a huge horn handled clasp-knife being used for every task.

Thanks, Will
 
Excellent post Mark :thumbsup: I think subconsciously we do inherit memories of our past ancestors good and bad, it explains a lot of behaviours ;)

You are fortunate to be the inheritor of your ancestors' knives because working knives, although treasured, were likely to be used up. Or, when a person dies, unthinking relatives might need to clean out 'all that old stuff' so it all got lost .

A knife is a companion, a highly useful tool and for enthusiasts throughout the ages a thing of dignity. The latter particularly so in the case of those facing adversities. Dickens in Great Expectations mentions a huge horn handled clasp-knife being used for every task.

Thanks, Will

Thanks Will. Not just me who believes this stuff then, thought I may have been stretching it. I'm a huge Charles Dickens fan by the way. :thumbsup:
 
Good to hear Mark.

Here, an early c20th/late c19th Nowill Equal End with totally sunk-joints, cut-out and 4 blades, only 2 surviving that belonged to one of my ancestors. Shown here with GEC 62 the nearest they've come to sunk-joints.

1DHM9Td.jpg
 
Good to hear Mark.

Here, an early c20th/late c19th Nowill Equal End with totally sunk-joints, cut-out and 4 blades, only 2 surviving that belonged to one of my ancestors. Shown here with GEC 62 the nearest they've come to sunk-joints.

1DHM9Td.jpg
Very nice indeed Will. And yeah they certainly used em up didn't they.
Untitled by Mark Saunders, on Flickr
 
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As when one feels the pull of that first fish of the season and something indescribable and almost primeval is felt pulling on the line, something from our distant past which I have come to believe pertains to the ancient hunter/survivor in us, so it is when we take up our traditional slip-joints

:rolleyes:
 
Great post! It reminded me of this from Solzhenitsyn:

“Idolized children despise their parents, and when they get a bit older they bully their countrymen. Tribes with an ancestor cult have endured for centuries. No tribe would survive long with a youth cult.”

I came across it in this essay:
https://newcriterion.com/issues/2021/2/solzhenitsyn-the-engine-of-history
 
As when one feels the pull of that first fish of the season and something indescribable and almost primeval is felt pulling on the line, something from our distant past which I have come to believe pertains to the ancient hunter/survivor in us, so it is when we take up our traditional slip-joints

:rolleyes:

This
 
Excellent post Mark :thumbsup: I think subconsciously we do inherit memories of our past ancestors good and bad, it explains a lot of behaviours ;)

You are fortunate to be the inheritor of your ancestors' knives because working knives, although treasured, were likely to be used up. Or, when a person dies, unthinking relatives might need to clean out 'all that old stuff' so it all got lost .

A knife is a companion, a highly useful tool and for enthusiasts throughout the ages a thing of dignity. The latter particularly so in the case of those facing adversities. Dickens in Great Expectations mentions a huge horn handled clasp-knife being used for every task.

Thanks, Will

If you think about it, the distant past is really not so distant. If you rule out the relatively short life span we have, the so called civilized society we live in is a very recent thing.

Of the many thousands of years man has been here, like the going back to the cave over 50,000 thousand years ago, man was a hunter. Even 10,000 years ago, was pre history. Ostsi was found in the mountains with a copper ax and a flint knife, and that was 5,000 years ago. On a 24 hours time scale, with our distant ancestors in caves to 5,000 years ago, is like most of the clock. From the start of recored history to now, is like from 15 minutes to midnight. Up until very recently in human history, man was a hunter and a knife was not just a convenience, but dire necessity of life and death, along with a spear, bow and arrows, and fire.

Heck, even when I was a kid, there was no easy opening, pull tab packages. If you wanted into it, you took our your pocketknife and cut it open. And small slip joints were everywhere from the local five and dime to the hardware store. Until Buck came out with that over size over weight boat anchor, everyone carried a little 3 inch slip joint.
 
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You may be on to something.
I was always drawn to knives since I was 3 at least, and as a teenager when all I'd really carry were cheapo modern types the traditional knives still appealed to me.
I would acquire one here and there but I would not carry them.
I whittled on sticks with my 34OT, and one of the knives I wanted most was a Case sodbuster, the unexplainable connection and draw to traditional knives and slipjoints was there even though I didn't think of them much as actual worthwhile cutting tools.
 
Wonderful thread, Mark!!
I feel honored to have my Nonno's handmade knife!! He needed it for many things I am sure. I never met him, as he died when my father was 11 years old. It's too scary (big) for most people to even glimpse for a moment here in today's North America, but was de rigueur in Sicily in the late 1800s!!
So I carry that Barlow, or other relatively small knives!! But it often makes me think of what that time period would be like, and what it would be like to know my ancestor up close!!GiuseppesKnife.jpg GiuseppesKnifeC.jpg
 
I suppose most of the above applies to modern folders too. A useful knife is a useful knife. It's just, for me, the traditionals bring you closer to the history.
Don't forget that many pattern offer multiple blades, so traditionals can be more useful.

The tradition and heritage is a nice thought, but for me it boils down to just liking the knives more and finding a smaller secondary blade on my knife useful.
 
Wonderful thread, Mark!!
I feel honored to have my Nonno's handmade knife!! He needed it for many things I am sure. I never met him, as he died when my father was 11 years old. It's too scary (big) for most people to even glimpse for a moment here in today's North America, but was de rigueur in Sicily in the late 1800s!!
So I carry that Barlow, or other relatively small knives!! But it often makes me think of what that time period would be like, and what it would be like to know my ancestor up close!!View attachment 1508321 View attachment 1508322

A fantastic relic Waynorth. Thanks for posting.
 
As when one feels the pull of that first fish of the season and something indescribable and almost primeval is felt pulling on the line, something from our distant past which I have come to believe pertains to the ancient hunter/survivor in us
Not sure if the others were "jesting" you for the above, but for me it sent shivers down my spine.
I know that feeling well and have made the same connection. There's no feeling like it. :cool::thumbsup:
 
Posted this before, I think in reply to another thread. Anyway, don't think it was widely read..


There was a time when every man in England, America and most of the Western World carried a pocket knife. Until very recently in fact every man from office clerk to farm labourer carried a folding knife of one form or another. Theirs was the refinement of a tradition leading back hundreds if not thousands of years of the small fixed blade, used for minor cutting tasks, food preparation, eating etc. For the farm labourer the spay blade of his stockman would be used for its intended purpose and its drop-point for the eating of an apple within the same half an hour, with little more than a quick rinse in the horse trough between. In his book The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists Robert Noonan describes how his chief protagonist and socialist Frank Owen urges his workmates to produce their pocket knives, and uses them as a metaphor by which to explain the capitalist system under which they are the victims. The knives are the ‘machine’ by which the bread is divided and the capitalist ‘money trick’ is performed. Every man amongst the bedraggled workforce produces his knife, though at this time (around 1910) and as the book graphically describes, God knows they had little else. The folding knife was an essential, useful and highly valued item to the working man.

And so the same knife, used for the sharpening of a pencil and the cutting of a bit of bread and cheese at lunchtime, stayed in the pocket of the average working man during his leisure. Perhaps whilst fishing his folder would be there for trimming the line and cleaning the catch, or gutting the odd rabbit as a welcome treat for dinner. By the fireside in the evening it might have been used to whittle a small doll or toy as a present for one of the children. I have been lucky enough to have inherited my Grandfather’s pocket knife which he had from his father, as well as those belonging to both of my Great Uncles. For me, with a proud working class history, these knives are full of such wonderful connotations.

There is something else, also, in owning a traditional slip-joint, particularly an inherited one. For most of us our distant ancestry is as hunter, gatherer tribe’s people. As such, a knife or a blade would have had two main functions: as a means to prepare food and as a weapon. Such things, when handed down, would have taken on distinct talismanic qualities, providing a strong and powerful link to the past, a grounding in the present as well as faith and direction for the future. The story of The Sword in the Stone is a good example of how such notions still remain pertinent to us today.

Some might say it is ridiculous to imagine that there might be anything genetic in our appreciation and desire for a good knife. But when you consider that once upon a time a fire and a decent cutting edge were our most vital and valued tools, the control of which enabled us, ultimately, to survive as independent human beings, it becomes quite understandable to think that, somehow, some of that appreciation still resides instinctively within us. As when one feels the pull of that first fish of the season and something indescribable and almost primeval is felt pulling on the line, something from our distant past which I have come to believe pertains to the ancient hunter/survivor in us, so it is when we take up our traditional slip-joints.

When my Great Grandad and my Great Uncles chose their knives they did so on the basis of build quality, fitness for purpose and value for money. For me they got it right, and I personally feel no desire to reinvent the wheel on that one. To go over to anything other than a traditional pattern would feel like breaking with the traditions and the history that I find so pleasing. Every time I use my slip-joint I connect with something both important yet basic...and it feels right.

- Mark
Untitled by Mark Saunders, on Flickr
Untitled by Mark Saunders, on Flickr

My Grandad's and my Great Uncle's penknives.

Great post! Carrying a pocketknife is a common experience that we share with countless others past and present. In some ways it's a ritual like drinking coffee or tea - it connects us.

This reminded me of a quote from the late English (French) historian Hillaire Belloc -

"And the most important cause of this feeling of satisfaction is that you are doing what the human race has done for thousands upon thousands upon thousands of years. This is a matter of such moment that I am astonished people hear of it so little. Whatever is buried right into our blood from immemorial habit that we must be certain to do if we are to be fairly happy (of course no grown man or woman can really be very happy for long–but I mean reasonably happy), and, what is more important, decent and secure of our souls. Thus one should from time to time hunt animals, or at the very least shoot at a mark; one should always drink some kind of fermented liquor with one’s food–and especially deeply upon great feast-days; one should go on the water from time to time; and one should dance on occasions; and one should sing in chorus. For all these things man has done since God put him into a garden and his eyes first became troubled with a soul. Similarly some teacher or ranter or other, whose name I forget, said lately one very wise thing at least, which was that every man should do a little work with his hands."
 
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