My $99 commie "Survival" Rifle

[11x11x]

the biggest difference I think in the survival role is the corrosive ammo, it's very important the rifle is cleaned as it is used, and this can be tough in a survival situation.

That is a great point, I've had good luck using straight tap water to wash out/neutralize the corrosive salts left by the primer. Then run patches, etc, let air dry, oil, and check it for rust the next day. Haven't had an issue yet. Besides you should know this isn't a fragile weapon, maybe you don't? If Communist 3rd world countries can keeping this style rifle in service for a century plus then so can I.

 

[PayetteRucker]

I heard windex works well to neutralize the residue as well, but I don't think carrying a bottle of windex in your survival kit is a spectacular idea.

 

[11x11x]

I heard windex works well to neutralize the residue as well, but I don't think carrying a bottle of windex in your survival kit is a spectacular idea.

I wouldn't recommend windex unless your cleaning windows dude. Just because my understanding is that it is less the ammonia and more the water in the windex that works to clean it. But even normal water-based solvents/cleaners will suffice. It needs nothing remotely special to successfully clean/maintian the weapon. I personally use good ole' fashion water to neatralize the corrosive salt. And since this is <MY> story and <MY> gun, I think I get to choose what qualifies as a "Survival" rifle.

 

[bushman14]

WWII vintage GI bore cleaner works awesome on corrosive ammo too, as well as other fouling. But so does water, just naming options. They are hard to find, but there are some original surplus water funnels floating around out there.

 

[Old CW4]

Quick tidbit of gunsmith advice. Vanilla bore cleaner will NOT neutralize the crap left behind by corrosive ammo! There are some custom products that will but the old tried and true is hot water with a bit of dishsoap mixed in. Just swab the bore with a couple of patches, then dry with clean patches, and lightly oil. The corrosive, BTW, is from the old mercury fulminate primers which where commonly used to the mid 50s and I'm sure millions of Commie Bloc and Chinese ammo was loaded with it for years afterwards. That was the main reason the Commies learned how to chrome plate their bores, We didn't pick up on that til 25 plus years later.

 

[islamoradamark]

go to samco global arms they have a nice assortment of ww2 rifles i went to the wherehouse in miami very impressive all u need is a C and R licence ship to ur door

 

[ROCK6]

I think most agree corrosive ammo is bad is you neglect to clean your rifle after use...it's the salts that attract moisture and most likely you'll see a light film of rust immediately, but pitting takes time and more neglect. I've personally seen a very pitted and ugly barrel of an old Mosin (91 I think) that still grouped a couple inches at 100 yards. For "survival" purposes, simple care will keep the rifle functioning just fine. Hot water was used to neutralize the corrosive salts in the past and the ammonia in Windex will work...if you don't have Windex, just to the Bear Grylls method and pee down the barrel if you're really concerned Old CW4 is correct though, most standard lubricants won't neutralize the salts...simple soap and hot water should be your first step and that's easy to do in a field environment.

ROCK6

 

[hung-solo]

where did you get it?

 

[Coldwood]

where did you get it?

These are available from a lot of sources. I have three MNs, all long barrels, and I wouldn't hesitate to carry one as a survival rifle. Just takes a little more muscle.

I bought my first 91/30 online, no C&R required, but it had to be shipped to my local gun shop. I bought my second 91/30 through Gander Mountain (they recently had them on sale for $99). I bought my third 1895 M91 through a local gunshop, and despite it's 115 years, it shoots just fine.

You can find sources for these, and ammo, through advertisers on Gunboards Forum:

http://forums.gunboards.com/

They also have a Mosin Nagant subforum for collectors and tons of information. Just don't tell them you plan to "Bubba" one of these beauties, they will skin you alive

One correction, a counter-bored barrel is not a bad thing. The Finns did this routinely to captured Russian rifles to improve accuracy. Otherwise, you have to worry about dinging up the crown of your barrel. For a survival rifle, a counterbore would actually be desirable IMHO. My M91 is a Finn-capture with a counter-bore and it's as accurate a shooter as I am.

Edit: I also did a similar conversion, like 11x11x did, to a commercial Norinco SKS. I used an ATI Monte Carlo stock and I like it just fine. As 11x11x said, it was a little tight and required a bit of fitting and sanding. This would be my grab-and-run gun.

 

[bruce]

With all the mods you've made to it, is it still, technically (according to the BATF) a C&R rifle? You might want to follow up on that. Hate to have you try to explain it to guys in black suits. Changes to an AK47 or SKS, using US parts, can change its status. We don't often think of a bolt action being in that same category. Best to check, as I don't rightly know, not having one at the moment.

 

[bushman14]

Technically it is no longer a C&R eligible firearm, but that's a moot point. You're talking apples and oranges, bruce. The rifles you mentioned are subject to a restriction in the number of imported parts used, when in a non-sporting firearm status(pistol grips or high cap mags, etc.). The Mosin has none of those limitations and is not in the same category.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Few clarifications:

As I said previously, the M2 .30'06, M80 7.62x51 (.308) and 7.62x54R have identical nominal muzzle velocities. Only int he commercial loadings does the .30'06 pull ahead by 75-125 fps -- not enough to make a big difference.

Tumbling bullets: The 7.62x54R does not start tumbling at x meters, it's not a characteristic of the cartridge. However, rifles witht he muzzle crown messed up (because the stock steel cleaning rod is only long enough to clean through the muzzle, not the breach) have been known to cause tumbling bullets as close as 50 meters. You're probably seeing the effects of a worn rifle. Ones with good rifling (the 1945-46 Mosins were essentially built, sighted in and put in cosmoline storage. So they are basically new rifles with sharp rifling. Also older ones can have good rifling and a good crown, and counterbored barrels typically work quite well), will not show this same tendency.

Cleaning corrosive ammo residue: Warm water is all you need. Soap added helps. Ammonia does nothing to help dissolve corrosive salts, ammonia does help dissolve and remove copper fouling. Spray Windex with ammonia down the bore, leave for 10 minutes and run a patch through -- it'll come out bluish green from the corroded copper coming out.

Also, there's a lot of good, non corrosive ammo out there now from Winchester, Prvi Partizan, Wolf, Barnaul (Brown and Silver Bear), S&B, etc. It's more expensive at $10-$15 a box, but if you want to hunt and not handload, it's out there. For blasting at the range, just clean after using the cheap surplus.

Also make sure to use a new cleaning kit with a one piece brass or delrin rod to keep from mucking up the bore.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Technically it is no longer a C&R eligible firearm, but that's a moot point. You're talking apples and oranges, bruce. The rifles you mentioned are subject to a restriction in the number of imported parts used, when in a non-sporting firearm status(pistol grips or high cap mags, etc.). The Mosin has none of those limitations and is not in the same category.

Besides, if he bought it at a gun shop or other store, he bought it as a standard firearm with 4473 paperwork and not as a C&R anyway.

 

[11x11x]

With all the mods you've made to it, is it still, technically (according to the BATF) a C&R rifle? You might want to follow up on that. Hate to have you try to explain it to guys in black suits. Changes to an AK47 or SKS, using US parts, can change its status. We don't often think of a bolt action being in that same category. Best to check, as I don't rightly know, not having one at the moment.

That is an excellent question and I'll be honest, something I never considered. So thank you for bringing that to my attention. I did some quick research and apparently it would no longer be considered C&R if it has been moddified so far beyond its orginal configuration to change the "essence" of the rifle therefore negating its "Collector" status. And that in this case the term firearm is refered to as the frame/reciever. I also think that has more to do about importation of the item and commerical resale. Not 100% positive. But anyone taking say an SKS, slapping a high capacity detachable magazine, rechampering it to 5.56x45mm would no longer classify it as a C&R. Any here know for sure?