my buddy wants to get into making swords and axes

J.McDonald Knives

J.McDonald Knives

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any advice for him? i told him he can use my equipment when hes ready. i dont know how much experience he has with metal working or carpentry. i told him i would help him when hes ready and to study up alot before he does any work.his only free time would be during the summer cause of work and school. ill link him to this thread as time goes by. he should be joining soon also.
 
I am his buddy, Hello everyone!

I have no skills in metal working or forging or anything like it. I am a computer expert and Chemical Engineer in training. The closest thing that i can come to the metal working skill is carpentry. And those have not been kept up in the past .... 9 to 10 years?

So basically i am a green horn, and will remain that way for quite some time. Any and all information on starting is much appreciated As Squee may have already said i am much more interested in the larger works. Swords and pole-axes, axes and hatchets.
 
Try going to markets and getting cheap axes - you know the wood chopping ones - big ones ,small ones - whatever.Chop them up,drill them, grind them, weld them into tomahawks , battle axes or whatever. You'll learn how to use workshop tools ,how to work metal but most importantly learn new skills and know what to do/not to do next time. And it doesn't cost the earth...so go for it and let the sparks fly....yeharrrrr!
 
I'll assume that you plan on forging these blades out. Should that be the case, you're going to want to start out small, and then move up. Keeping everything even, straight, properly hardened, etc. on a small knife it tough enough, and it only gets harder as you start getting larger.

First thing that you'll want to do is read as much as possible. Look for books (run a search on everyone's favorite books- it's somewhere in here), articles, or whatever else you can find. Look for as much information as possible on heat treating. Kevin Cashen has many articles written, and a quick google search should give you a link to his explanation of basic metallurgy, and the heat treating process.

From there, search for local makers, meets, and hammer ins, so that way you can get some one on one time with people that have experience with making blades. This is will drastically reduced the learning curve, and it should offer plenty of good times aswell.

After that, you research and build your shop. Same as before, google and a forum search should provide all of the information that you need, or atleast most of it.

From then on, it's forging, banging your head against the wall, forging some more, and eventually making your way to swords.

Good luck, and welcome to the addiction!
 
It is a lot like becoming a brain surgeon.
They start out checking blood pressures.....
move up to doing sutures...
assist in some simpler surgeries....
and eventually move up to brains.

Swords are the most difficult weapons to make. It takes having the basic skills fully mastered. Axes and hawks are easier,but still require somewhat advanced skills.Without that base of knowledge, any answers or advise on how to make swords and axes would be of no use.

If you are serious about developing these skills I would suggest your taking the bladesmithing course at the ABS ,Moran School of Bladesmithing in Old Washington, Arkansas.
http://www.americanbladesmith.com/

In the mean time ,read all those books I sent Jacob.Once you have got them fully digested, I can recommend several more (and some videos) that deal with swords and axes more in depth.

Stacy
 
ive already told him taht he can use my equipment until he can build his own shop. he will basically be doing a hammer-in at my place during his free time. i told him to study up alot and to come here with all of his questions. by the time he is able to start forging i will have gained a good bit of knowledge and know-how to help him get started. neither of us is going to even think about making damascus until we both have a few notches under our belts. i told him that a damascus sword would look really sweet but i wouldnt use it for anything other than a show piece or wall art cause of all the care that is needed for damascus. hes going to let me know when he has some free time and will be able to borrow some of the books. i appreciate all of you helping him and telling him the same thing i was telling him: start small. hopefully next saturday we both will be going to the SAXET Gun Show in san antonio. www.saxetshow.com

keep the advice coming.
 
If he wants to make swords seriously he needs to start studying. Swords that work as intended are works of art on more than one level, much like the perfect skinning knife. Each swords style has an equally important school of thought behind it and an intended use. As someone who studied a classic Japanese style and Toyama Ryu Japanese military sword style I am unimpressed with many Katanas. Usually the biggest flaws are in the polishing. I am a huge believer that if you want to make swords from periods long gone you must learn what he smiths knew and that includes the final grinding and finishing of the blade. Correct proportions are critical as well. If you look at the average Tokagawa Shin Ken you will find it was made for a shorter man. When increseing the blade size handle/blade ratios must be presserved.
Edit: proper proportions of course extend far beyond length. Thickness at critical points and various angles of specific parts of the blade will play into many tradional katana styles.

Second, I suggest he learns to cut and do it often. This may seen silly but let me explain. In a reccent issue of Tactical Knives a gentleman reviewed a katana of some sorts. In order to test its slicing ability he tried cutting tameshigiri with bamboo centrals (a very advanced technique wasted on the untrained, best to start with mats alone till you cuts are correct). every sinlge cut he made was flawed to the extreme and I could see it from the small magazine pictures. When one makes a cut with a katana the motion is one of an oval. At the apex of the swing the blade should be as far in front of the body and around head level then as the slice carries through the hands return to body center. The over all motion is one of making a large slice, not chopping. The difference in the way a Katana cuts when done properly is night and day. Above and beyond this the cut should be perfect when viewing the remains of the mats. A cut should sever the mat clean. a upswept or downswept curve in the start or end of a cut is a shure fire sign of a poor cutter who cannot maintain his arc through his cut. The man in the magazine was leaving wavy butchered cuts at the mats top, a clear sign of complete lack of control on the cutters part. My point is he had no idea of whether that blade could do its job. He was not even capable of making it work as intended if he understood what that was in the first place. To me this is like me trying to tell you how good a rapier is by pocking it into a sack of potatoes. For each sword he wants to make well and functional he will have to learn more. Im not saying you have to be a swordman to make them, but you shure as hell need yto know what a sword should be.
 
I wanted to thank you all for the quick response and quality information. It's certainly interesting and i hope to put some of these ideas to use. Like Squee has probably told you i don't have much time or money. I am working and going to school full time. I don't plan on staying in town more then 9 months... most likely i'll be a very transient person, living out of a dorm or cardboard box or something the following 3 or 4 years. So i'll have to wait until i am done getting my degree in Chemical Engineering before i really get into it. I don't really practice anything until i have a firm grasp of the techniques involved anyway. Until then i will be listening and watching, learning a little bit at a time over those years.
 
Blade magazine's how to make knives book has an article on sword making. You could parouse it at a barns and noble in a comfy chair. Wayes Hayes makes a great Katana video to get you started on Japanese blades. One of the best sword polishers around just started posting on BF. Maybe we will get some expert advice soon.
 
by the time he is ready to start i should be ready to really help him alot. please keep the information coming. the more the better.
 
If you're a ChemE major, you're already ahead of the game in some respects.

You'll be able to really understand what's going on when you work the metal, I.E. Hardening, tempering, etc... Also, you may dazzle us and come up with a new type of anticorrosion treatment that looks and functions well.

Good luck.
 
Hey Pimp, last time I was through Bandera (been a while) there was a rustic building right downtown called "The Forge". I pulled up and went in looking for anvils and forges, tongs and whatever else related to a nice forge. All I found was picnic tables, and some rather, lets say "high spirited" individuals, trying to sit upright at those tables. Is that place still there?
 
Welcome, Nogas,
Put your love of swords in your dreams folder, not to be opened until many skills have been acquired. The majority of makers here will tell you to forge and make smaller knives for 4 or 5 years before attempting swords. You see so few sword makers because the level of skill required, to make them, is so great.
I am not trying to dampen your passion, just a reality check.

Good luck, Fred
 
Thanks for the Reality Check there... :)

It really only serves to make me want it more. I don't like doing things everyone else can do. If it takes 5 - 10 years all the better. The journey is what i am after to begin with. I don't plan on being capable of anything before practice and hard work. And even then the Idea of working with metal is just as important as what i can make out of it.
 
nogasgofast said:
Thanks for the Reality Check there... :)

It really only serves to make me want it more. I don't like doing things everyone else can do. If it takes 5 - 10 years all the better. The journey is what i am after to begin with. I don't plan on being capable of anything before practice and hard work. And even then the Idea of working with metal is just as important as what i can make out of it.
Click to expand...

That attitude will sustain you. To me, life has always been about the journey.
You miss a lot if the goal is everything.

Fred
 
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