My Camillus 72 Whittler Project WIP

synthesist

So many knives so little time
Joined
Sep 14, 2004
Messages
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Lurker to worker…..it’s funny when a sea change hits you. I’ve played “at” making knives for a long time, played with, and collected, knives for a lot longer. I’ve read all the “how to” make knives books ever written, (some many times it seems). My wife says I could probably write one by now. I’ve made straight knives that were okay and use some of those daily in my kitchen but I’ve never done much with folders other then use some of them a lot, admire others and take a bunch of them apart to see how they tick. I’ve had the privilege of watching, up close and personal, a world-class folder maker, Tim Wright, produce a knife and once upon a time had an article about him making a knife published in a Japanese knife magazine. But I’ve never tried to make a folder.

Over the past year I’ve gotten to know one of BF’s best knife makers, Ken Erickson, a bit, looked over many of his knives and read many of his WIP articles. Recently I read the one he authored about making a whittler for about the 12th time……………….. then I spoke with him about a project he’s doing and casually mentioned an idea I had for a project of my own. What was that you ask…………………..?

Buckle up.

Ken suggested that I should take pictures of my idea and post them. So you can blame him for this project. So this is all his fault. Without that prod I'd never have bothered to take pics, much less post anything.

Anywayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

A couple days ago I was digging through my knife collection, which I’m in the process of re-defining for the umpteenth time. In a drawer, in a box, untouched for years, I discovered a cache of Camillus #72 whittlers. Understand that these ubiquitous (made since 1946 continuously I believe) knives are really a stockman configuration that Camillus and the Boy Scouts of America have decided, on their own, to call a whittler. These are dandy knives for whittling with. I always seem buy them when I stumble upon them.





Soooo several of my 72s have broken blades; it’s always one of the small blades, the saber grind main blade looks bullet proof. I dumped the box of them out on my desk and, idly, wondered if one of my junkers could be re-configured into a “true” whittler pattern. So I took a couple, one without any scales (the scales were corroded celluloid/plastic so I pried them off at some point in the past) and another with nice Delrin scales, apart. I cut through the pins with a utility knife and a hammer and the knife fell apart. Piece of cake so far………….. Pretty grimy cake. I’m winging this btw.





Then I took another one apart……………….. 3 down. The pile of parts is growing.

As I sit there, I now have 3 knives in pieces. 7 usable blades, single and double ended springs, a couple of brass center scales, 2 good liners with bolsters attached but no scales and 4 liners with bolsters and Delrin scales. I destroyed all the pins (go figure) but I plan to replace them with 3/32” nickel silver rod anyway.



H’mmmmm. My wife is laughing at me now as I jumble the pieces into various knife configurations, a whittler and swell center, double ended jack. She quietly (that means without rolling her eyes btw) but wisely asks if those blades are still sharp? Good point………………… I dull them with a file.



More to follow………………………

Feel free to comment on my being a dilettante

Corey “synthesist” Gimbel
 
Corey,

Looking forward to your progress on this one. Not an easy chore to accomplish this project.

:thumbup:
 
Too bad I like everything about knives and especially folders, you've got my attention !!! Frank
 
I've been thinking about restoring some old folders myself, so I will be watching too.
 
Thanks for the encouragement...................................

So now I’ve got these knives taken apart and cleaned up some with some acetone and alcohol (God knows what they cut last and whether it will give me blood poisoning when my INEVITABLE bloody slip happens). (When did I get my last tetanus shot???)

Looked at how a bunch of my other whittlers are constructed. This looks possible...............

Did some measuring.

Discovered that I don&#8217;t have any nickel silver pin material in the size Camillus used. >>>shrug<<<

Made a management decision that if 3/32&#8221; is good enough for Ken Erickson its fine for me.

Dug out some .093 drills to use as assembly pins while messing with this thing

Drilled and reamed a set of blades, bolsters, springs, and a brass center scale to 3/32&#8221; (these parts are pretty soft)

Cut the brass center liner into 2 pieces, 1/3 length (1 hole) and 2/3 length (with 2 holes) and filed them so the main blade will fit depending on which I decide to use. I&#8217;m inclined to the long two-hole one but we&#8217;ll see (Ken told me to be really careful of razor sharp center liners which decide to move around in your pocket and slice your leg open). I taper both to about .005 at the front.



Started tapering 2 double-ended springs forward from the center hole by hand, using a smooth file, which is working like a charm.



Ruhhhhh Rohhhhhhh I realized that I&#8217;m going to need some kinda spring depressor to put this together.

2 Day interlude while researching spring compressors and making some.

Search internet for tricky, spring compressor ideas. Find one dandy design on the internet

(http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com...?f=37&t=26105&hilit=spring+compressor&start=0 )

and get another idea from my, How To Make Multi-Blade Folding Knives, book where Terry Davis uses a #366 Pana-Vise with a ground down brass &#8220;finger&#8221; bolt to push springs into position.

Make both spring compressors. I happen to have all the materials and a Pana-Vise too. (go figure)

The &#8220;invented&#8221; spring depressor works pretty well. Terry Davis&#8217; is gonna take some fiddling to work, but it&#8217;s still a brilliant solution to a vexing problem



Cut some 3/32&#8221; nickel silver pins and tapered the ends (running against my belt grinder while they&#8217;re in a cordless drill) to make them slide in easy.

Lay out the pieces and put it together as a whittler for the first time. This takes awhile&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; it goes together pretty painlessly.



The "Invented" spring depressor gets cut down some and it works even better now.





Look it over. Main blade springs need more taper (not sure exactly how to measure the taper) without narrowing the part that contacts the blade itself.

The small blades talk just fine. They are going to need some crimping and filing to fit around the (blinking here) somewhat bulky main blade. It didn&#8217;t seem thick till now.



I&#8217;m learning a lot doing this and haven&#8217;t had to bother Ken yet.

Stay tuned.

Corey &#8220;synthesist&#8221; Gimbel
 
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This is a very interesting post. I've been smiling all the way through it. I could so see myself spending 2 days looking up the spring compressor thingy :)
 
Naturally I didn't upload the pics of the new/converted whittler and Photobucket is taking an eternity to do anything (it's free so I should really shut up and be grateful I know................)

I will upload those and some more pics of the spring compressor variations I made as soon as I can. I'd forgotten I also discovered 2 other backspring compressor tools that I didn't make @:

http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/knife_forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=13147

http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/knife_forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=10069

Meanwhile I'm sitting here listening to this thing click brightly and contemplating refinishing the blades since I had to work (thin them out rather then crink them) on all 3 of them to make them play well together. But they do fit nicely now and open and close smoothly. Not as smooth as a mint one but maybe after I polish the tangs and lube it a bit they'll act newer. Thinking how nice this would look with real jigged bone instead of the not bad looking (but fake) Delrin. Pretty soon I will have enough time in this project that I could have built one of these from scratch using CPM154 for the blades and 410 SS for the liners, pins and bolsters. (Just kidding................joke - ha haha hahaha)

My wife says I just wanna look at it and don't have the guts to pin it and, ohhh yeah, to get my smelly knife off her kitchen table where I was taking the pictures. I'll show her.

Corey "synthesist" Gimbel
 
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The first "together"pics



Before and after comparison of the modded 72 with a stocker





Now I need to decide how much I'm going to "re-finish" this thing. I enjoy a knife with a well earned patina but this one has had so much done to it already I'm thinking I may as well go all way. I realize that this whole project is creating a "Frankenknife" of a sort but I'm pleased with how it's coming along and what I've learned so far.

My favorite tool used has been a Grobet 6" smooth file. What a joy. The invented spring compressors are a revelation too.

Of course you realize that YOUR mileage may vary.

Corey "synthesist" Gimbel
 
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So we've come through the "BIG" flood of 2013 here. During that I had some time to contemplate how to finish the &#8220;whittler&#8221; part of this project off.

I&#8217;m torn on whether to clean the blades up or just to put the thing back together. On one hand I did this as an experiment and learning project. The knife is an EDC user at best. No exotic steel, Delrin scales, brass liners, nickel silver bolsters &#8211; typical carbon steel Camillus traditional. So no reason to return it to anything resembling minty. On the other it&#8217;s something I worked on and I want it to look nice.

So I&#8217;m open to comments, flames and kicks in the butt. Chime in.

Meanwhile I&#8217;m looking at the set of liners that I pried the corroded scales off of and thinking about turning them into a 2 bladed knife. I could do a double-ended one with one spring, or a more typical jack knife with both blades at one end. I also have to decide on what material to use to replace the scales and whether to jig it, line it, pin it etc.
Later I&#8217;ll post some pics of the second one ensconced on an assembly board and a &#8220;new&#8221; spring compressor/depressor I made out of a Vice Grip clamp that&#8217;s a lot faster to use then the others I made.

This project is moving right along with no major glitches so far. Should I be worried?

Corey &#8220;synthesist&#8221; Gimbel
 
Thanks again Corey, I'm enjoying this thread. This is just my opinion but I would clean it up as nice as possible and put a new set of bone scales on it. Like you said, you're gonns use it for an EDC so why not make it look nice. I'm anxious to see pics of the Vise-Grip spring compressor.
 
There&#8217;s not much to this spring compressor. I got tired of fighting a strong folder spring while needing 3 hands to pop a blade in place to see how I was doing so I looked for a way to have a strong 3rd hand of my own handy. I thought a vise grip clamp would serve that purpose and it worked like a charm. I&#8217;m sure I saw this somewhere else before so it&#8217;s not an original idea although it may be a different approach. The pics:



The clamp



The pieces of the modified clamp. I ground off the rivet holding it together and beat it apart. I can return that movable endpiece and bolt it on if I need to although I have about a dozen of these clamps in my woodworking stuff (getting left a woodworker's tools in his will helps out here. Thanks Frank)




The clamp end with an angled notch filed in it.



My assembly board clamped to the edge of a table with a piece of aluminum angle butted up against it to clamp to. The plywood isn&#8217;t strong enough to clamp against by itself (ask me how I know this)




The clamp in action



The blade just drops right on the pin




I think I&#8217;ll add a second blade now



There you have it. Note that I haven&#8217;t done ANY fitting of these springs to these 2 blades yet.

Corey "synthesist" Gimbel
 
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Love it! I have been thinking about making a folder, and this is really interesting to me.
 
*** thinks this over ***

I'm happy to share this and glad it might inspire you Willie and Darrin. Others on here share freely and I thought (with some prodding from Ken Erickson) I'd pay back some of what I've learned from others here and in other knife forums on the internet.

The tools, jigs, fixtures gadgets and work-arounds people come up with to use of knives "constantly"amaze me. Special vises, file guards, pin spinners, bubble jigs, blade center markers, belt splitters - all these things solve problem and save countless hours. Maybe this little gadget I made will save some pain and time for some of you.

As far as making a folder goes for me, working on this whittler, re-profiling the blades and springs to fit together closely, redoing the springs, all of these new experiences add to my confidence that I can make a folder from scratch. Maybe after I finish these 2 off I'll take a shot at one of my own but that will be a different WIP.

Corey "synthesist" Gimbel
 
Thanks again Corey, I'll have to make me something similar to that. I figured that repairing old folders would be a good way to learn the mechanics and assembly in order to gain enough confidence to make one from scratch myself . I figure starting this way will save me from scrapping a lot of steel and many hours of wasted time.
 
Whewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Refinishing small, pitted folder blades is a pain in the butt. I thought doing that by hand would give me more control and I'd learn more that way................. Bull. Tiny pits, or what look like teeny. tiny pits (admittedly under 5x magnification) seem to go half way through the blade. I was attacking these with 220 grit but that wasn't workin at all went back to 100. Mehhhhh. Still takin forever. If this is a patience exercise I'm losing.

Took a couple days away. Had a brainstorm while looking at my sharpening bench filled with STONES and DIAMONDS. Went back at it with a coarse, round India stone and that worked like the proverbial charm. @blades down 3 to go.

I was almost ready give up and to go to the power.

Pics to follow.

Corey "synthesist" Gimbel
 
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