My Carbon Steel Rant

Status
Not open for further replies.
Soak a rag in mineral oil. Put it in a ziplock bag. Use it to wipe down your blades when you put them up. Gun and knife owners in the south and on the coasts have been dealing with it for decades.
 
Admittedly, I am rather biased towards high carbon steel. I blame my dad, as he was the one who instilled somewhat of a distrust in all things stainless at a rather young age.

However, I do see your points. I live in the Pacific Northwest and though we don't have problems with excessively humid heat all that often, we do get a lot of moisture in other ways, namely rain... Since I have taken up carrying traditional patterns again, I have found that I have had to get in the habit of checking my knives every evening to ensure that nothing untoward has occurred. Usually that entails making sure it is clean and I oil frequently. Despite my diligence though, I still find peppering, the occasional orange spot, etc. I haven't suffered from any heavy pitting yet but I am sure it is only a matter of time.

I can see it being hard to want to spend good money for relatively expensive knives with carbon steel blades when you have to work that much harder to maintain their integrity. For that reason alone, it would be nice if GEC in particular would provide more options. I certainly see that there is market for it. In the meantime, if you can get past Queen's QC issues, their D2 is rather nice, though not nearly as easy to sharpen. I have been pretty happy with mine.

There is a charm to carbon steel that is lacking in most stainless. I liken it to preferring Harleys over Hondas and Yamahas. Sure it will be more finicky and require more maintenance but you develop a relationship, in a sense. A bond occurs that can be difficult to explain but is there nonetheless...

Regardless, I hope that your dilemma can be resolved soon for you.
 
Pàdruig said:
There is a charm to carbon steel that is lacking in most stainless. I liken it to preferring Harleys over Hondas and Yamahas. Sure it will be more finicky and require more maintenance but you develop a relationship, in a sense. A bond occurs that can be difficult to explain but is there nonetheless...
Click to expand...

Nicely put Padruig, there is certainly no logic to my love of carbon over stainless :)

Sorry for your problems Buzz, I do like to read a good rant though :) :thumbsup:
 
I live in South Louisiana and it's pretty hot and humid for at least 75% of the year. If I'm not going to be carrying a carbon steel blade for awhile i soak it with oil. I usually apply some mineral oil to them and toss em in my pocket. If i know I'll be sweating a lot I'll take them out of my pocket. I always have a stainless modern folder in my pocket anyway. I usually keep a SAK close by for dirty jobs or to hand to someone who ask me to borrow a knife. I just accept that one day any carbon steel knife I carry will get rusty or patina. I try to prevent it for the most part.
 
I'll happily take that horrible Case Sowbelly and properly dispose of it for you. ;)

You just let me know.

I will say that the few times that I've found a small spot on a knife reminds me to put a touch of oil to the others that happen to be out and about.

Seriously though, you could probably sell off or trade many of your knives for ones that would work with you better and not be out a whole lot of money like starting over would do to you.
 
ea42 said:
Keep in mind that D2 is not stainless and will rust as well if not maintained.

Eric
Click to expand...

That is a good point. I think I often forget that D2 isn't truly stainless, it comes just under that threshold. That being said, it will certainly prove to be far more resistant to rust and corrosion than 1095 is, you just can't get it wet and then forget about it...
 
Vote with your money. If people didn't buy all those GEC 1095 knives, they might have to offer more 440C which cost more to make.

The only custom I've bought in a carbon steel was damascus. I won't pay custom prices for a slipjoint that will rust.

Buy Queen instead. I have a few Queens in ATS34, great knives.

Buy Case. Case makes more than a few in 154CM and stainless damascus. Every year there is a new pattern from the Bose line. Great knives.

Buy Moki. Moki makes them in VG10 and AUS-8. I think they make the Fallknivens, which have some traditional patterns.

However, if you'd take better care of them, rust and pitting would not be a problem. Rinse and wipe off when used with caustic material. Coat with oil every day. I used to use mineral oil, which worked, but I am lazy. Renaissance wax is what I use mostly now, especially for knives that are being stored. It works for 1095, O1, A2, and "unkown", the non-stainless carbon steels I own. For carbon steel knives in use, I take care of them every day at the end of the day.

The guy who owns the knife museum in Intercourse PA, American Military Edged Weaponry Museum, uses Butcher's bowling alley wax and he's got a lot of carbon steel with no rust, pits or patina.
 
I'm totally with you on the whole steel thing. However much I love traditionals for their utility and looks, I refuse to buy any more carbon steel. I don't have the patience to baby this daily use tool when there is no requirement in this day and age. Even my Queen in D2 needs careful care after food use and I live in a very dry/hot city. I'm looking forward to the new Lionsteel Euro Barlow and currently enjoying my SAK Alox Pruner after two months (so far) of non stop carry.
 
Patina is one thing, rust spots aka pitting, quite another....:poop:

Patina is only really achieved by carrying one knife religiously day in day out for weeks to the exclusion of all others, constant use and constant wiping down. Turn your back and rust gets a look in. Then it can turn to pitting which you can't get off, this is really dismal on a relatively new knife. Let's look at this carefully, patina may denote 'character' slow time changes etc most people revere this, however, does not everyone also revel in a brand new knife straight from the box/tube? Yes. Otherwise there'd be no buying. Spotty, uneven patina is frankly ugly and it's a rust gateway as well. I've really come to the conclusion that I prefer stainless, it's simply more suitable and a whole lot less annoying. .Consider a high polish crocus finish carbon blade, looks beautiful, it then gets a few pepper spots on it ( just like that actually), value is diminished, you either endure it or turn it into a grey/black user-which has to be defended against further degradation. I suspect that a lot of the 'cult' of carbon has to do with some handed down idea that stainless is 'cheap steel' that won't hold an edge, that is for amateurs and the 'real' Traditional can only sport carbon out of respect for the past. Perhaps just after WW2 stainless was rather inferior and a poor relative but that is before most of us were born! I'm glad we no longer use carbon or plated table knives for sure plus all the other superior application of stainless steel in other areas, pocket knives should be included. Most Customs and Moderns use stainless types of steel, for good reason.

I'm not advocating that carbon should be disregarded or abandoned, far from it, but the fetishisation of it can be puzzling and confounding for sure. GEC's case is also a good one to consider, it very seldom produces stainless runs and even then very grudgingly. The ethos there is very clear, carbon is king, and the only legitimate king too. It is implied that stainless knives are not popular and that in the past they've remained shunned and unwanted on dealers' shelves for ages, I question this and suspect that it may be the choice of pattern that failed to ignite people. I'm certain that if a 50:50 run of carbon/440C knives were put out on the forthcoming run of 66 Stockman in identical scales, then you'd see both disappear fast. So too for any 81, 82, 25, 33, 92,38 run in stainless.

Rust or red spots turning up after only a few weeks carry is discouraging and more than irritating. Humid conditions or the sweat of a pocket generating rust is something that can change your mind about the total desirability of carbon. D2 is much better at resisting corrosion I've found, it will grey if you cut acid fruits with it but unlike carbon, it imparts no flavour on to foods. Then it stays sharp for so much longer than carbon can ever hope to achieve....;)

VG-10 Monologue over:D
 
I've posted a few times on the subject. I grew up with pitted and rusted knives in Ohio in the 60s, when SS was junk. We lived across the Ohio River from Wheeling, WV. Man it got humid! We'd do our best to keep the pocket knives clean and oiled but it was a losing battle. I don't have any interest in trying to keep rust at bay now.
I have some really nice GEC 1095, Case CV and others. I like owning them but I won't carry them on a regular basis.

There are a lot of nice traditional patterns out there in good SS, you just need to look for them. If you can, save up some knife money and get one of the fine makers that support this forum to make one for you. You get to choose the pattern, the covers, blade steel etc. I've done it a few times and it's pretty satisfying.
 
brownshoe said:
However, if you'd take better care of them, rust and pitting would not be a problem. Rinse and wipe off when used with caustic material. Coat with oil every day.
Click to expand...

And there's the rub. What constitutes proper care, and when is it just not worth the bother? The thought of pulling out my knife rotation every single night, and coating all of the the blades with oil sounds ludicrous to me. Most of my users have 3 to 4 blades. That's not me owning the knives. That's the knives owning me. I just got lucky yesterday, that I had a 2-blade and a single blade knife left out. The two GEC knives had carbon steel liners, which also rusted.

And my pile of users changes from week to week, sometimes day to day. It's just too much upkeep for a reasonable person, IMHO. If I only owned one or two knives, it might be okay. But I'm not that guy.
 
Last edited:
Also, oiling blades and joints stains pockets and seems to attract lint, dirt and other foulings.
 
I know my dad's aversion to stainless was largely due to the lack of quality stainless in his time. He was rather convinced that anything sporting a "stainless" title or descriptive was going to be comprised of rather soft steel that wouldn't hold an edge and therefore, in his mind, was next to useless. Though I know better now, he certainly passed that mindset on to me and though I still prefer high carbon steels in my knives today, I long held to the belief that stainless was inferior.

Variety is the spice of life, so they say, so it would certainly be nice to see more options short of customs.
 
It is generally very humid in Oklahoma as well; 85deg and 65% right now. But even when it is not terribly humid here, satin finished 1095 needs a bit of care. The Hess / Landi knives come to me with what I consider a rough satin finish; which means the steel is wide open to contaminants. If I don't treat them with Seal1 as soon as they come in the door, even though both makers treat them with oil, there will be problems next time I open the boxes up.

Which makes me wonder if anyone having these troubles has tried a couple treatments of FrogLube or Seal1 (or anything else) on their 1095 and noted the difference? I have used several things over the years, and even set up some testing a few years ago. Treat one blade and don't treat the other - then set the knife on a paper plate inside a gallon ziploc. Set a cap full of iodine on the plate as well and watch for a couple days with the bag closed. I hadn't heard of Seal1 when I tested using this method before and CRC Heavy Duty Silicone spray from WalMart did a great job. But FrogLube, then Seal1, replaced it when I would still have minor problems with the Hess knives. I have yet to have a problem after a knife is treated with these new solutions. And I don't even follow instructions well, as I generally apply at room temperature. They say if you will warm the steel up and apply it 2-3 times over a few days the results are even better. And they are fine for food prep as well.

The sweat in my pockets while working wreaked havoc at one time; but I have not had issues for some time with the combination of slips and the new CLP products available.

My dad went to a TruSharp Case because of the same issues; but he was sharpening that thing every time he slowed down. there are exponentially better stainless options today, with many mentioned above.
 
I'm sorry you're having issues with carbon steel, but I just can't relate.
If I were you I'd either give my blades a coat of mineral oil, or put them on your nightstand in a wooden box with one of those large silica packets to absorb moisture.
 
That's too bad about your knives. I like 1095, but I don't have your issues with rust. Maybe it's the dry Mediterranean climate I live in, or my non-corrosive sweat, but by and large rust is not something I worry about.

I have other knives for specialized contexts, but for EDC purposes 1095 suits me just fine. Is it the best? No, but it's good stuff. Admittedly it's the baseline and I won't go below it. But my primary carry is a Northfield. I have knives in BG42 (the absolute best steel in a slipjoint I've experienced) and CPM154, but the knife that goes in my pocket 6 out of 7 days sports a blade of plain carbon steel.

Perhaps it's because I like natural covers. Give me wood, bone, stag, or pearl; you can keep the acrylic, delrin, and micarta. I think a 1095 blade looks good paired on a buttery stag knife. It's the same instinct that draws me to fountain pens instead of ballpoints, mechanical watches instead of a Casio, blued 1911s instead of polymer pistols, walnut stocked bolt actions instead of their kevlar clad counterparts. These things show the passage of time, but given a modicum of care, they age gracefully. I like that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top