My experience: Hatchet vs Machete.

[Cpl Punishment]

It's as the old saying goes...it's all in the wrist! Begin with your arm held held close with your hand near your shoulder. You should be gripping the machete with only the first two fingers and thumb, firmly but gently. As you snap the arm forward towards the target, let up with the first two fingers while squeezing instead with the bottom two. Think of the machete as "rolling" along the palm through the squeeze of your grip. The angle of attack should always be diagonal, even if shallowly, but a 45-60 degrees seems to work best for me. The more against the grain you go, the harder it is for the blade to penetrate deeply. Then make a similar cut from below. Begin from the high position as before, but combine with a wrenching motion during the through such as to come from a low angle. You should have now removed a very large chunk of material.

This is very much like the proper technique for using a kukri. Makes a huge difference.

Because of the rolling snap that should be used with a machete I do not often recommend using a lanyard. Rather I would simply cease your work if your hands and forearms get tired. A smooth but unpolished handle will usually work best as it will not abrade the hand but not be so smooth as to cause rubbing and blisters.

Personally, I think it's unsafe to use lanyards on large blades. If you lose your grip, that's a lot of blade swinging around, even if you use the wrap-around-the-back-of-the-hand method. I'd rather have the thing get flung from me than have it attached to my wrist by a lanyard.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

This is very much like the proper technique for using a kukri. Makes a huge difference.

Very similar, in fact. I tend to avoid most kukris, however, as I find them much less suitable for general use. Most kukris presently on the market have quite thick blades that make them more of a linearly-oriented hatchet. Works great for some folks, but not the tool for me. Still damn cool though!

Personally, I think it's unsafe to use lanyards on large blades. If you lose your grip, that's a lot of blade swinging around, even if you use the wrap-around-the-back-of-the-hand method. I'd rather have the thing get flung from me than have it attached to my wrist by a lanyard.

You hit it right on the head. The only time I'll use one is when I'm doing fine work like camp chores or using it as a draw knife. For actual clearing purposes a lanyard does not belong on a machete. I just run a loop through the hole and cinch it in place so I can remove it without untying anything when I go to cut stuff down.

 

[Darteres]

I believe the proper use of a machete (and a khukri) involves learning hot to do pull and pull cuts, so that the blade will slice as it's cutting. A proper push cut is fairly easy to do once you get used to it and is what makes my HI khukri's chop so freakin scarily . It's the same principle behind a military saber or a katana or any other curved sword. With proper technique, I know my katana can slice through a 3 in pine tree with one cut, but the pines around here really aren't that dense of a wood. The sap on the blade will show that I'm usually using about 8 inches of blade as my body pivots through the cut. My HI M43 can cut through a 2 in pine like it's laughing and sometimes blow through a 3 in. My YCS can almost chop through a 4 in with one hit. This is all given the room to be able to do a correctly positioned swing. Martial arts training may have helped as well :thumbup:

For out and out chopping though, like kneeling on the ground hacking up logs, I reach for my M43 or a small hand axe, they really are about the same. (A khukri is more fun though! ) I did some testing with the recent hurricanes, and on an 8 in pine, with me kneeling down by it chopping towards the ground, the M43 pulled ahead of the hand axe, but only because I've profiled and convexed the M43 to a much further extent than my cheap-o walmart hand axe and I could use that wrist snap to push cut a bit easier.

Obviously a bigger axe would work better, but I don't ever foresee my having an axe bigger than a hand axe in middle Louisiana. I also wouldn't want to carry one. I remember as a kid using the spilling maul all summer to split firewood for the winter. Electric heat be damned when you have a giant cast iron wood-burning stove :thumbup:. If I ever had to split wood like that again, you can bet that I'd go to the store and buy a maul and some wedges before I even considered using a khukri

It's all in how you use it and what you enjoy using. I'm looking at a Valiant Survival Golok in the near future. They sure are cool looking...

 

[the possum]

My thoughts may be slightly off the topic here, since I don't use machetes much nowadays either, but I have settled on a long knife to take care of most of my needs. It combines the chopping power of a hatchet with the speed and manueverability of a machete. It gives me the versatility to tackle light brush as well as green hardwoods (up to around 2 1/2"-3" dia. limbs can be easily severed with one swing).

I don't have much use for a hatchet or axe since I don't do much hiking & packing stuff in. If I'm going somewhere that I need to cut big wood, I grab one of the chainsaws.

 

[akennedy73]

Bear in mind that it depends on the machete. If you need it to tackle something heavy there are a number of fantastic designs for larger work. Unfortunately most people have only familiarity with and access to the Latin-styled varieties, which are of course unsuitable for that kind of work.

I agree - not all machetes are created equal. An Indonesian golok is a different beast than a Latin American machete. A golok excels at cutting hardwoods and is on par with any hatchet of equal weight. Additionally, it is somewhat safer since a glancing blow (resulting in the cutting edge inconveniently returning itself into your body) is less likely.

For more info check out:

http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/v-shrake/goloks.html

he compares a Latin machete to an Indonesian golok and uses a khukuri as a control. his conclusion (#2 is the latin machete, a Martindale made in England but still functionally a latin american-style machete)"

"So while it was natural for the goloks to pull ahead in grass cutting, I expected the khukuri would pull ahead in chopping hardwood. And while this was the case, it wasn't to nearly the degree I had thought going into the test. Sure, the khuk chopped better than both goloks, and the SGL chopped better than the #2, but the SGL wasn't that far behind the khukuri in overall chopping efficiency. The SGL took only about 10% more chops to get through the same wood as the khukuri, while the #2 took about 25% more chops. I was using four and five inch Juniper logs from my woodpile for this test, and they were all quite dry. Juniper is a good wood to test against as it’s a fairly hard, dense wood and also quite common in my area."

 

[Blue Sky]

I went hiking with my dad and brother a few days ago and took a 12" Ontario machete...

Ontario makes two versions of the 12 incher, one with a thin blade one (about 5/64") with a thick blade (about 1/8"). Do you know which one you had that day? If it was the thinner one I could understand your feelings, it is not a good wood chopper, but the thicker one sure is. Also a good wood splitter, draw knife, digger... Just don't judge it by the factory edge, it needs to be re-done.



I once took my (thick) 12" Ontario and a hatchet (wood handle, 1-1/4 pound head) into my hardwoods hunting grounds to do some spring trail-clearing and general chopping (clearing blow-downs, overgrowth, etc.). Lets just say I came out of the woods with the hatchet in my belt and the machete in my hand. Not an easy thing for a hatchet-lover to say, but reality is what it is.

 

[midnite-penguin]

Hmm, Good thoughts from you machete folks. Maybe someone needs to send me a quality, modded machete to beat around with an change my opinion!

 

[Darteres]

I agree - not all machetes are created equal. An Indonesian golok is a different beast than a Latin American machete. A golok excels at cutting hardwoods and is on par with any hatchet of equal weight. Additionally, it is somewhat safer since a glancing blow (resulting in the cutting edge inconveniently returning itself into your body) is less likely.

[/B]

What kind of golok is that one? Looks sweet...

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

But what then is considered a quality machete? I honestly don't know, having only used machetes very little. But I'll say that Cold Steels, Ontarios, Condors and Tramontinas at the least happily fall apart when it goes below -20 degrees Celcius, if they're used with any force to chop anything harder than a little brush. Of course, could be that all my machetes have been lemons. But somehow I doubt that.

Maybe my machetes are just diamonds in the rough, but I also doubt that.

I just don't see how a spring-tempered chunk of carbon steel is going to become brittle all of a sudden. . . -20 C is not overly cold. I have used my 27" machete to split wood in the middle of winter with no ill effects.

 

[Any Cal.]

I have a machete that I cut down to 15 or so inches long that I work with a lot. On softwoods, such as spruce, it takes me about the same amount of time and effort to cut through a 5" log as it does to use a Hudson Bay 3/4 axe. I am not as good with the axe, but I have done tests like these over and over.

As far as a 12" Ontario, I have the thicker one, and never use it. I let others try both, and they invariably put the Ontario back and use the other. It's only good quality that I have found is that it is short. Because it is so short though, it can not gain the speed necessary for deep cuts. It is also heavy for it's size, which keeps the speed down as well. It seems like it would make a nicer camp knife than a machete/chopper.

 

[akennedy73]

What kind of golok is that one? Looks sweet...

it's a valiantco golok - i forget the name, they don't make that particular model anymore. the closest one that they still offer is probably the GOLOK JONGGOL M which you can find on the second page of the java blades - http://www.valiantco.com/

 

[Darteres]

Thanks akennedy73!

 

[Elen]

Maybe my machetes are just diamonds in the rough, but I also doubt that.

I just don't see how a spring-tempered chunk of carbon steel is going to become brittle all of a sudden. . . -20 C is not overly cold. I have used my 27" machete to split wood in the middle of winter with no ill effects.

Yeah, I doubt that, too. So that leaves two things: different user and different materials worked on. I'm no expert on machetes, but I'm not so bad that I'd break them out of sheer incompetence. -20 C is certainly not too cold, but it's a little more chilly than the usual jungle. Woods around here tend to get pretty cold and hard in the winter, and chopping at them with a machete seems to cause some unreliable results, often ending up ugly. Now, I'll certainly admit a machete isn't designed to be used in the Scandinavian winter hacking up half-frozen wood, and isn't exactly the best blade for small work either, but then, these are precisely the reasons why I don't consider machetes a useful tool for me, in these conditions. I would sure like one in the jungle, though.

But darn, a 27" machete is a long blade.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Maine gets pretty cold, but even so I've never had a single machete from any manufacturer I own take damage because it was cold out. Granted you need to be more careful cutting frozen trees because your target has hardened, but choose an appropriate blade style for the task and you should be fine. That being said I would probably go with an axe in cold weather as it is easier to operate properly while wearing winter gear and will plow through ice better. I only use mine for limbing when it's cold out.

 

[LittleHairyApe]

Global warming notwithstanding, I think we have to give Elen his due a little bit. Nearly all of Scandinavia is at or north of the arctic circle (~66.5N). It's the equivalent of living in Alaska. I believe most of the continental US is below 45 degrees. It isn't just a little colder in Finland, Sweden, and Nor-brrr-way. It is lots and lots colder, and a machete might not break at -20C, but I bet it would at -40C. I bet they still have a few -40C days up in Finland (ice hanging off nose just thinking about it). It could be that Elen was just a few degrees of on the temp, but if he said he's broken a couple of machetes, I'd be inclined to believe him. It's his back yard. He should know.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

Global warming notwithstanding, I think we have to give Elen his due a little bit. Nearly all of Scandinavia is at or north of the arctic circle (~66.5N). It's the equivalent of living in Alaska. I believe most of the continental US is below 45 degrees. It isn't just a little colder in Finland, Sweden, and Nor-brrr-way. It is lots and lots colder, and a machete might not break at -20C, but I bet it would at -40C. I bet they still have a few -40C days up in Finland (ice hanging off nose just thinking about it). It could be that Elen was just a few degrees of on the temp, but if he said he's broken a couple of machetes, I'd be inclined to believe him. It's his back yard. He should know.

I don't think anyone called him a liar. I am sure he broke machetes.

Finland and Minnesota have the same record low temperature, which luckily is nowhere near as cold as Alaska's record low.

 

[LittleHairyApe]

I don't think anyone called him a liar. I am sure he broke machetes.

Finland and Minnesota have the same record low temperature, which luckily is nowhere near as cold as Alaska's record low.

True. You didn't call him a liar. That is a fair statement. But you wrote,

"I just don't see how a spring-tempered chunk of carbon steel is going to become brittle all of a sudden. . . -20 C is not overly cold. I have used my 27" machete to split wood in the middle of winter with no ill effects."

It seemed to me that you were gainsaying his claim by your statement in the previous paragraph regarding "sudden" brittleness and -20C.

The interesting thing about statistics like "record low temperatures" is that they can be a bit misleading. For example if you just went by lowest recorded temperature you'd never suspect that Helsinki at the southern tip of Finland is, on average, colder than Minneapolis 9 months out of the year. And if Helsinki were not directly on an ocean, I suspect the temps would easily be 12 out of 12. It's important not to draw too many conclusions based on a single number.

I hasten to point out that the numbers you and I both probably cite are "recorded" measurements. I think it's safe to assume that there were probably a few unrecorded temps that dipped lower than -60F in both Finland and the USA. I'm most definitely not trying to short change Minnesota on its coldness. But given Finland's latitude, I'd guess that closer to the polar region still generally means colder weather for a longer period of time each year, especially when you are talking about 15 degrees or more of difference in latitude.

 

[MacHete]

I went hiking with my dad and brother a few days ago and took MacHete with me. MacHete would have been good for making trails but I usually go around or through thick brush instead of cutting it. Other than that he seemed extremely useless. I couldnt think of anything I could do with him, especially something that a hatchet and mora couldnt. I actually regretted bringing him. On our way back to the car (05 16g wrx) I actually gave MacHete away to someone we met heading in who didnt think to bring a :jerkit: with him.

Anyway Ive decided to leave MacHete out from now on, as long as Im not making a trail.

Man, that hurts. Why you gotta hate?

 

[Elen]

Global warming notwithstanding, I think we have to give Elen his due a little bit. Nearly all of Scandinavia is at or north of the arctic circle (~66.5N). It's the equivalent of living in Alaska. I believe most of the continental US is below 45 degrees. It isn't just a little colder in Finland, Sweden, and Nor-brrr-way. It is lots and lots colder, and a machete might not break at -20C, but I bet it would at -40C. I bet they still have a few -40C days up in Finland (ice hanging off nose just thinking about it). It could be that Elen was just a few degrees of on the temp, but if he said he's broken a couple of machetes, I'd be inclined to believe him. It's his back yard. He should know.

We have that lovely Gulf Stream warming up things around here, though, which Alaska doesn't have. It's surprisingly warm around here, sometimes. And sometimes it's pretty cold. Especially north of the Arctic Circle. -50 C is nothing impossible, but luckily (if you ask some folks ) it doesn't get much colder than that here. Unless, of course, you count the wind chill which isn't normally done around here. So, when I really like to freeze my behind off, I just go to Verkhoyansk in Sakha, where -60 C is nothing unusual in the winter, and -50 exactly what you should be expecting after Christmas. Quiet place, and not too many people around to bother you! But I digress.

I think my post about machetes breaking in low temperatures was a bit badly worded. I said "below -20 C" and that seems to emphasize precisely -20 C, but that's not exactly what I had in mind. In my experience, -20 C is about as low as you can go before you start seeing the cold seriously affect various pieces of gear. Below -20 C, things like synthetics and plastics, such as Fiskars and Mora handles and Kraton and whatnot, start turning brittle, and get much more easy to break accidentally. Applies to metals, too - heavy impacts on frozen woods covered in snow and ice are hell on especially thin blades like those on machetes. And most guys who have spent a lot of time chopping logs with axes in the winter will have seen even good axes lose nice chips off the blade due to the cold air and the frozen wood. Physics was never my strong point, but it seems that lateral stress is even more bad than usually in cold temps - a slightly sloppy swing that ends up with the blade twisting a little in the wood, and snap, there goes the blade. At -30, the effect is already easy to notice. At -40, it's almost impossible to not notice.

Now, one might say it's not really a good idea to be outside when it's below -20, and in some ways that makes sense. But sometimes you can't really avoid it. And in some places, you'd have to stay locked up indoors for months if you couldn't go out in that weather.

 

[RescueRiley]

Dang that's too cold for this cowboy.. Hot cocoa and dvd's for me when ig gets below 0degrees.