This is long so only continue if you are interested. I am not looking to be told that I am right, I'm just posting this for informational purposes only. I don't think that this is a good case of customer service, but form your own opinion. This price isn't an issue here, but the principle is. Also, I am perfectly capable of fixing this problem myself, but that was never my point. Read on if so inclined.
So back in the early Spring I was looking on Helko's site and saw that they had a special deal on their European hatchets and I bought one for $22.00 plus shipping. After ordering, I was advised that there was only one left and that it had a handle that was slightly hung crooked. Cosmetic only and I was given the choice to cancel the order or accept a free leather sheath. I accepted, as I could use it and may choose to fix it down the road if I ever wanted to. Again, it was framed as a cosmetic issue only. I still had every expectation of a regular warranty that would cover normal defects/flaws product failures that was a result of such things.
After one use of the hatchet, it was very apparent that filler had been used around the head to hide a god awful hanging and that there were large gaps on 3 out of 4 sides at the shoulder. I contacted Helko regarding this, and the series of e-mails are what follows.
-I had purchased a large hatchet a few months ago from this site. I was advised that the handle was slightly crooked and was offered a free sheath which I accepted. However, after finally using it for about 20 minutes, I see large gaps where the handle enters the eye. It looks like filler was used to correct a poor fit and it has all fallen out. I am not confident in the continued use of this tool without cutting the handle off and installing a new one. Can you tell me what my options are? I can repair it, but I'm not happy about having to put the time and effort in after one use. I am not looking for a refund, although that would be one option. I would also be open to a replacement, or whatever else you might suggest. Thanks very much.
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-Hello Justin,
Thank you for taking the time to reach out to us. According to our records, you purchased a European Hatchet, 800g, for $22.07 back in late March, invoice #17983.
If you can, please send me some pictures of your hatchet to identify the issues you are referring to.
Kind Regards,
Spencer Holst
Helko North America
9215 Santa Fe Springs Road
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
Tel: (562) 946-6668 | Fax: (562) 946-4000
www.helkonorthamerica.com
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-Here you are, please let me know if you need anything else.
-----
-Hello Justin,
Thank you for taking the time to send me those pictures.
I cannot say for certain how this particular axe was hung, although from the photo it does look as if some type of material is inside the eye. This is not a standard practice used for Helko axes. However, I would like to point out that this particular hatchet you ordered is our German Standard European series. The European series is our most economical product series we offer. These particular axes should not be held to the same standard as our premium line axes. The cost of the product clearly separate and distinguish them. This axe was priced at $22, which is an exceptional price for a German forged axe head with German steel. The handle is not the same type that is used on our other axes. For the European series, we use lower cost handles from an assortment of hardwoods. Our premium lines of axes are made with superior handles made in Switzerland from sustainably sourced and FSC certified American Hickory. These handles alone cost around $30 to $45 on our website, as they are some of the finest handles available, and are an important part to an axe's overall quality and integrity. In fact, we no longer sell this product line series of axes.
It is my opinion that the handle does not necessarily need to be replaced. Unless the head is loose, as long as there is a secure fit the tool will still function. If the head did come slightly loose, a common fix to it is providing more security in the eye. If you drive in an additional straight wedge, the handle will expand at the eye, thus forcing a more secure fit from the handle to the head. I have done this myself with tools over the years, and the technique works very well.
Unfortunately, these types of hand tools are not indestructible, and may occasionally need tending to. If you would like, I can offer you a 25% discount on one of our handles, should you decide to replace the handle entirely.
Kind Regards,
Spencer
-----
-No thanks. The product was advertised as having an ash handle, and it does. All of these had that, not a variety. Also, as you state, using a filler to correct an improperly fit handle is not standard procedure. I received a great price because it was a closeout, that does not make it acceptable to have a poorly made product begin to fail after one use. The fact that something was being closed out is not an excuse for shoddy construction. Furthermore, an offer of %25 off of a $30-45 hickory handle is of no use when the same quality handle can be purchased from househandle.com at less than $10.
I understand that this is a lower line and is not held to the same finished standards as your more expensive axes, but that does not mean that it is acceptable to tell customers to "deal with it" when obviously concealed flaws begin to show immediately. An inexpensive hatchet should still cut wood once before beginning to come apart.
This will be my last purchase from Helko, and I will be sure to share my experiences.
-----
-Justin,
I do not believe my response to you was unfair or misleading. It was in no way my intention to leave you with a "deal with it" response. I found my response to be fair and honest.
These axes were not advertised as having ash handles. It was explained, while they were still being sold on our site, that they were of lesser quality assortments of hardwoods. It was highlighted that these axes were the most economical units we sold. While it is possible the handle on your hatchet was indeed ash, it was not the same type of ash used on our other handles. My offer of a 25% discount on a handle was in good faith. Our German ash hatchet handles are priced between $25 and $27.
There were no attempts to conceal flaws in quality with this axe. Gap filler is not used on our axes. As stated to you, this hatchet was our last one, and the handle was not ideal. We personally advised you of the condition of this particular handle before your purchase, and offered you a free sheath in exchange. You accepted this offer. If you were unhappy with the tool upon receiving it, we would have been happy to refund you for a return.
Due to the above, I feel we have been completely fair and honest with you. I am sorry you are unhappy with your axe, and I once again extend a discount on a new handle. I cannot prevent you from speaking negatively of our company. I find it unfortunate that this is the way you feel, even after our disclosure of the hatchet, providing you the sheath, offering suggestions and discounts, and the time spent in sincerely speaking with you. I do not know what else you would expect of us, as we no longer sell that product series.
Kind Regards,
Spencer
-----
-You are not addressing my point. I was advised of a crooked handle, that is true. That is not relevant to my complaint. The price is also irrelevant. You offered closeout pricing, that should have no effect on Helko standing behind manufacturing flaws.
There WAS filler used. It is obvious in the picture. Also, I had no complaint when I received the axe as I did not find fault until using it.
Let's keep this simple. You advertised a product. I bought it. If there are manufacturing defects that discovered upon use that will affect the future use of the tool, I expect that a company should warranty the product. Offering me a handle so that I can fix it on my own at a cost higher than the original purchase price if the axe does not sit right with me as a proper solution.
Despite your statement that fillers are never used, filler was used to cover a flaw. The product has begun to deteriorate after one use and will continue to do so while there is a gap at the handle shoulder. You will not stand behind the product and are telling me that this is acceptable because of the fact that you decided to sell them at a discount. The product description did not make me aware that there was no warranty.
What do I expect? Is there a warranty? I expect that there is. The product was not misused, therefore if it shows manufacturing flaws and begins to fail because of them, should the product not be covered? Please explain to me my failure in logic. Or, if there is no warranty, explain to me why I was not made aware of that when purchasing the product.
The flaw that was disclosed to me is not the flaw that I am complaining about.
-----
-Justin, you are welcome to give me a call if you would like to discuss this issue further.
This item was deemed unacceptable for normal sale. You were advised of a particular condition, which you accepted in exchange for an additional item.
If filler was used, it was done in good faith for this particular hatchet which was excluded from normal sale. You are welcome to read about our warranty on our website. This will not apply to your situation.
Kind Regards,
Spencer
-----
-We don't need to speak any further. The issue that I was advised of was not and is not what I am unhappy with. I have repeated this a few times. I was advised of a cosmetic problem which I accepted. I was not, however, told that I was buying a defective product that would not be covered by a warranty.
In any case, whether you are ignoring my repeated point or don't understand it, unfortunately you have made your position crystal clear. I have already put more effort into trying to have this correctly resolved than it is worth, and I regret trying. I'll fix it myself and move on, having learned my lesson regarding Helko. I'm sure that you make some very good products, but the company's manner of dealing with problems means that I will never use them. Thanks for your time.
-----
My main point is that they are saying that since I was told that the handle was crooked that I have no warranty and that other non disclosed functional defects are no longer their responsibility. I just don't agree with this, as not once was I told that I was buying it as-is and that they would be off the hook for any other problems. Essentially they said "Hey the handle isn't straight do you still want it?" and I said yes. They never disclosed that they would be wiping their hands of the thing and any other hidden problems. I would not have paid $10 for it if it was accurately described.
In closing, I know that this isn't a lot of money and that I can fix it. That's just not the point.
So back in the early Spring I was looking on Helko's site and saw that they had a special deal on their European hatchets and I bought one for $22.00 plus shipping. After ordering, I was advised that there was only one left and that it had a handle that was slightly hung crooked. Cosmetic only and I was given the choice to cancel the order or accept a free leather sheath. I accepted, as I could use it and may choose to fix it down the road if I ever wanted to. Again, it was framed as a cosmetic issue only. I still had every expectation of a regular warranty that would cover normal defects/flaws product failures that was a result of such things.
After one use of the hatchet, it was very apparent that filler had been used around the head to hide a god awful hanging and that there were large gaps on 3 out of 4 sides at the shoulder. I contacted Helko regarding this, and the series of e-mails are what follows.
-I had purchased a large hatchet a few months ago from this site. I was advised that the handle was slightly crooked and was offered a free sheath which I accepted. However, after finally using it for about 20 minutes, I see large gaps where the handle enters the eye. It looks like filler was used to correct a poor fit and it has all fallen out. I am not confident in the continued use of this tool without cutting the handle off and installing a new one. Can you tell me what my options are? I can repair it, but I'm not happy about having to put the time and effort in after one use. I am not looking for a refund, although that would be one option. I would also be open to a replacement, or whatever else you might suggest. Thanks very much.
-----
-Hello Justin,
Thank you for taking the time to reach out to us. According to our records, you purchased a European Hatchet, 800g, for $22.07 back in late March, invoice #17983.
If you can, please send me some pictures of your hatchet to identify the issues you are referring to.
Kind Regards,
Spencer Holst
Helko North America
9215 Santa Fe Springs Road
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
Tel: (562) 946-6668 | Fax: (562) 946-4000
www.helkonorthamerica.com
-----
-Here you are, please let me know if you need anything else.
-----
-Hello Justin,
Thank you for taking the time to send me those pictures.
I cannot say for certain how this particular axe was hung, although from the photo it does look as if some type of material is inside the eye. This is not a standard practice used for Helko axes. However, I would like to point out that this particular hatchet you ordered is our German Standard European series. The European series is our most economical product series we offer. These particular axes should not be held to the same standard as our premium line axes. The cost of the product clearly separate and distinguish them. This axe was priced at $22, which is an exceptional price for a German forged axe head with German steel. The handle is not the same type that is used on our other axes. For the European series, we use lower cost handles from an assortment of hardwoods. Our premium lines of axes are made with superior handles made in Switzerland from sustainably sourced and FSC certified American Hickory. These handles alone cost around $30 to $45 on our website, as they are some of the finest handles available, and are an important part to an axe's overall quality and integrity. In fact, we no longer sell this product line series of axes.
It is my opinion that the handle does not necessarily need to be replaced. Unless the head is loose, as long as there is a secure fit the tool will still function. If the head did come slightly loose, a common fix to it is providing more security in the eye. If you drive in an additional straight wedge, the handle will expand at the eye, thus forcing a more secure fit from the handle to the head. I have done this myself with tools over the years, and the technique works very well.
Unfortunately, these types of hand tools are not indestructible, and may occasionally need tending to. If you would like, I can offer you a 25% discount on one of our handles, should you decide to replace the handle entirely.
Kind Regards,
Spencer
-----
-No thanks. The product was advertised as having an ash handle, and it does. All of these had that, not a variety. Also, as you state, using a filler to correct an improperly fit handle is not standard procedure. I received a great price because it was a closeout, that does not make it acceptable to have a poorly made product begin to fail after one use. The fact that something was being closed out is not an excuse for shoddy construction. Furthermore, an offer of %25 off of a $30-45 hickory handle is of no use when the same quality handle can be purchased from househandle.com at less than $10.
I understand that this is a lower line and is not held to the same finished standards as your more expensive axes, but that does not mean that it is acceptable to tell customers to "deal with it" when obviously concealed flaws begin to show immediately. An inexpensive hatchet should still cut wood once before beginning to come apart.
This will be my last purchase from Helko, and I will be sure to share my experiences.
-----
-Justin,
I do not believe my response to you was unfair or misleading. It was in no way my intention to leave you with a "deal with it" response. I found my response to be fair and honest.
These axes were not advertised as having ash handles. It was explained, while they were still being sold on our site, that they were of lesser quality assortments of hardwoods. It was highlighted that these axes were the most economical units we sold. While it is possible the handle on your hatchet was indeed ash, it was not the same type of ash used on our other handles. My offer of a 25% discount on a handle was in good faith. Our German ash hatchet handles are priced between $25 and $27.
There were no attempts to conceal flaws in quality with this axe. Gap filler is not used on our axes. As stated to you, this hatchet was our last one, and the handle was not ideal. We personally advised you of the condition of this particular handle before your purchase, and offered you a free sheath in exchange. You accepted this offer. If you were unhappy with the tool upon receiving it, we would have been happy to refund you for a return.
Due to the above, I feel we have been completely fair and honest with you. I am sorry you are unhappy with your axe, and I once again extend a discount on a new handle. I cannot prevent you from speaking negatively of our company. I find it unfortunate that this is the way you feel, even after our disclosure of the hatchet, providing you the sheath, offering suggestions and discounts, and the time spent in sincerely speaking with you. I do not know what else you would expect of us, as we no longer sell that product series.
Kind Regards,
Spencer
-----
-You are not addressing my point. I was advised of a crooked handle, that is true. That is not relevant to my complaint. The price is also irrelevant. You offered closeout pricing, that should have no effect on Helko standing behind manufacturing flaws.
There WAS filler used. It is obvious in the picture. Also, I had no complaint when I received the axe as I did not find fault until using it.
Let's keep this simple. You advertised a product. I bought it. If there are manufacturing defects that discovered upon use that will affect the future use of the tool, I expect that a company should warranty the product. Offering me a handle so that I can fix it on my own at a cost higher than the original purchase price if the axe does not sit right with me as a proper solution.
Despite your statement that fillers are never used, filler was used to cover a flaw. The product has begun to deteriorate after one use and will continue to do so while there is a gap at the handle shoulder. You will not stand behind the product and are telling me that this is acceptable because of the fact that you decided to sell them at a discount. The product description did not make me aware that there was no warranty.
What do I expect? Is there a warranty? I expect that there is. The product was not misused, therefore if it shows manufacturing flaws and begins to fail because of them, should the product not be covered? Please explain to me my failure in logic. Or, if there is no warranty, explain to me why I was not made aware of that when purchasing the product.
The flaw that was disclosed to me is not the flaw that I am complaining about.
-----
-Justin, you are welcome to give me a call if you would like to discuss this issue further.
This item was deemed unacceptable for normal sale. You were advised of a particular condition, which you accepted in exchange for an additional item.
If filler was used, it was done in good faith for this particular hatchet which was excluded from normal sale. You are welcome to read about our warranty on our website. This will not apply to your situation.
Kind Regards,
Spencer
-----
-We don't need to speak any further. The issue that I was advised of was not and is not what I am unhappy with. I have repeated this a few times. I was advised of a cosmetic problem which I accepted. I was not, however, told that I was buying a defective product that would not be covered by a warranty.
In any case, whether you are ignoring my repeated point or don't understand it, unfortunately you have made your position crystal clear. I have already put more effort into trying to have this correctly resolved than it is worth, and I regret trying. I'll fix it myself and move on, having learned my lesson regarding Helko. I'm sure that you make some very good products, but the company's manner of dealing with problems means that I will never use them. Thanks for your time.
-----
My main point is that they are saying that since I was told that the handle was crooked that I have no warranty and that other non disclosed functional defects are no longer their responsibility. I just don't agree with this, as not once was I told that I was buying it as-is and that they would be off the hook for any other problems. Essentially they said "Hey the handle isn't straight do you still want it?" and I said yes. They never disclosed that they would be wiping their hands of the thing and any other hidden problems. I would not have paid $10 for it if it was accurately described.
In closing, I know that this isn't a lot of money and that I can fix it. That's just not the point.
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