My father wants a gun

Ok, my 2 cents:

First, lots of good advice here... especially about your Dad getting a dog.

Given the criteria you've mentioned and even what you haven't mentioned (like what about your Mom? What if Dad is injured and Mom needs to handle the weapon?), I recommend something much smaller. I would buy Dad a .22 or .25 cal Beretta. Here's why: Because of the break barrel, you can keep a round in the chamber... when it's needed, simply pull back the hammer and fire. Unless he's a giant of a man, the small Beretta fits comfortably in a man's hand and it will also fit in a jacket pocket (or front pants pocket) totally unnoticed during those moonlit walks on the beach. It doesn't kick at all so there's no problem for an older gentleman or a woman controlling it.

I was taught that inside a home, the action takes place within 4 feet. That's close. I know that the Beretta doesn't have the stopping power of a 1911 .45 cal but a couple of well-placed .25 cal hollow points should take the fight out of most residential burglars.

Just my 2 cents.

BTW, for my in-home defense I have within 3 steps of my bed (inside an open safe) a .25 Beretta, 1911 Colt .45 ACP, .380 Backup, and a .410 shotgun.

Cheers!
 
So I would bet your BB can penetrate 7 inches in the gel.

I am inclined to agree with you given the ballistic gelatin proofing test versus the velocity of a magnum shotshell.... perhaps its time to go back to the 3.5 mags in my nova... 00 also let me fit one more shell, but I am not sure that really matters...
 
Thanks to everyone for the advices!
A lot of information to digest! :)

The dog advice sounds good, but not an option: my mother hates dogs ::p

Alarms and whistles are, sadly, pretty much usles, there is not people to hear them!. And the sound of the sea is incredible muting other sounds at just few meters.

I think the stainless revolver will be.
And of course, lessons and practice (for both, my mom and dad) are part of the plan!

Thanks again folks!


BETO
====================
Sorry for my english :o
 
if revovers are so great why is every single police dept in the world either switched to autos, wanna switch to autos or wish they could switch to autos? QUOTE]


Because the purpose of police carry is different than the purpose of self/family defense. Police run towards dangers the rest of us flee. They also have a different obligation towards serving the public. But even police only fire an average of 2.6 shots per incident. [ http://www.pointshooting.com/sop9.htm ]

Sure, you might need more than 6 rounds (or 12 or 18 if you carry a speedloader), but you might also need more than 54 rounds. The odds are overwhelmingly against it, though.

i simply see zero advantage to a revolver lol.

nothing wrong with them but they have no advantage over an auto these days, nothing.
 
Get him a Taurus Medium Frame Stainless Steel .38/.357 revolver with a 4 inch barrel. Their quality is very good and they have a good selection. Practice with the 38 wadcutters or 158 gr. round nose lead. For self defence load it with 158 gr. semi-wadcutter hollow point +P. This is a well documented stopper and very managable in the recoil department. Have your dad get professional instruction on how to shoot his revolver.
 
If your going to get a handgun keep this in mind. If you want a gun with effective stopping power then your minimum calibers should be 380 acp in an autoloader. I a revolver 38 special or 32 H&R mag. Using bird shot in a shotgun for defense is a bad idea. The wrong jury will say you intent was to badly mangle the victim causing them excessive pain and suffering. Goodbye retirement fund. The smallest shot I would use would be #4 Buckshot and that would have to be at close range. Each of those 00 buck pellets is going to perform like a 22 long rifle give or take a little. Anyone that knows about weapons or clearing buildings knows that a shotgun is not the best weapon to have. It can be to slow to swing and is harder to use in close confined area's. It is great in the open area's but not so good in hallways or small rooms. If I had to use a shotgun it would have a folding stock with pistol grip and the shortest legal barrel I could find. If your state doesn't have the castle doctrine enacted then racking a shotgun to scare intruders just put you in the defensive / threatening mode. You are supposed to make an attempt to retreat until you can not escape then use deadly force. In states that have the castle doctrine you can blast away inside your home with no attempt to retreat (You gotta love Texas). Also if you are investigating a noise at night you can keep the handgun out of sight whereas a shotgun is awful hard to hide when you are in the investigative mode. Another point is if your father doesn't like recoil or pain then you need to rule out getting a shotgun unless you get an after market Knoxx stock installed. Shooting buckshot and slug loads are not for the faint of heart. They produce a large amount of recoil. This can make target practice go from fun to just painful in a few rounds. My recommendation is get a handgun in case your dad ever wants to carry concealed. There are a lot of inexperienced people here giving a lot of advise that is not that smart or logical. If you live somewhere close here in Texas I would let you experience a lot of different weapons before you lay your money down.
 
Glock, revolver, auto, shotgun, 9mm, .45, blah blah blah.

Any of those will work fine for a home defense beginner, they all have their good points and downfalls. But purchasing a gun and throwing it into a safe to collect dust doesn't make you anymore armed than buying a guitar makes you a musician.

Only two things matter: How comfortable the person is with the firearm. When talking about quality firearms from Smith and Wesson, Glock, Heckler and Koch, Sig Sauer, etc, the only deciding factor should be what platform is the most comfortable and intuitive for the user.

*PROPER* training with a quality instructor on safety, sight picture, trigger control, shot placement, failure action, reloading, and maintenance is the start, and then practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice. And then practice some more.

Master these two, and all arguments of caliber and model are inconsequential.
 
*PROPER* training with a quality instructor on safety, sight picture, trigger control, shot placement, failure action, reloading, and maintenance is the start, and then practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice. And then practice some more.

Master these two, and all arguments of caliber and model are inconsequential.
Thats what it boils down to. :thumbup:
 
I would second the 642 as suggested by Rat (gawd, I'm agreeing with Rat. ;))

A handgun will only be useful when it is readily and immediately available for an emergency. The 642 can be comfortably pocket carried. Mine was purchased on clearance with the factory CT laser sights. I probably wouldn't pay for a set, but it was a nice bonus. The CT laser will, IMHO, give him a training edge. While it is certainly no replacement for learning a sight picture, it can be an aid in seeing how much the muzzle moves on target with a DAO trigger pull.

Either way - training and continuing to practice are the keys to him using a firearm as a tool and not being a danger to himself and others.

(Also have in my firearms collection are a 20" 12 gauge pump and a Glock 30 (.45) - At least of these three, I would still pick the 642 for the situations you describe.)
 
Heck I would be afraid to walk up to my elderly father's fairly isolated house at night knowing that he has a freakin' firearm at hand! Especially if he is already paranoid about strangers or noises in the night and the is not well versed in tactical shooting and friendly/foe identification. It may cause more harm than good. Keep the doors and window secured and have a motion detector light switches strategically set around the property. If (and this is a big if) he really wants a firearm for HD, keep a shotgun next to his bed and a cellphone nearby to call L.E. before attempting to clear the house of any BG. Also, if CCW is legal in your country, great. If not, that would be such a shame to have poor ole dad in a jail cell because he had a revolver illegally in his possession.
 
Motion detector lights are a great idea. I guess that I would call before I visited in the future.
 
Glock 19.

Small enough to hide, big enough to hold.

Resistant finish.

Will run dry or damn near. Not advised, but if its neglected, it'll likely still work. (Use grease instead of oil lube if you plan to let it sit a long time, won't seep out)

Big enough caliber to stop effectively with modern JHP rounds. Small enough that a novice can still employ it effectively without suffering from recoil too much.

Inexpensive, both initially to buy the gun and to buy bullets to feed it. (A used one could easily come in at $400 or less. New for same price if he qualifies for a homeland security discount. Practice ammo is fairly cheap and decent JHP's can be found even at Walmart.)

Easier to manipulate/reload under duress.

If shooting as a hobby or professionally, I still advocate learning on a revolver, but if you just want a gun to have, I've come to feel that the modern semi-auto has equaled or bested the revolver in its ability to function reliably and after sitting neglected in a drawer for 10yrs.

That said, any defensive gun needs to be accompanied by a flashlight, spare magazine, training, and the will to use it when needed.
 
Shotgun is the best self defense weapon...period. If they insist on smaller, get a double action revolver for inexperienced shooters. Its simple point and shoot. Stick with a known knock down caliber without too much kick for inexperienced shooters .38 to a max .357
...just my two cents dude.
 
First thing I would do is make an effort to secure the house against intruders. Things like:

1. Security doors. This can be a solid core door or a second, metal door that affixes to the outside with one way screws. The point is that to get through it will take some extra effort, provided you didn't open it for them.

2. Peep hole. Use it, and if you don't have one, get one installed. If you aren't expecting company, and you don't know the person on the other side of the door, simply don't open the door.

3. Plant thorny stuff under windows. I don't like the idea of barring windows due to the risk in a fire, but some pretty rose bushes can make getting to the windows a bit tougher.

4. Sliding glass doors. Ugh. I freaking hate these things. If you're in a tropical climate, you probably have 'em. Getting rid of them is probably out, but you should at least keep a bar in the track at night or when you're out. Simple dowel from the hardware store or an old broom stick cut to size will do the trick.

5. Garage door opener. Serves two purposes. One, you can get into your garage without getting out of your car. Two, it makes it harder to force open the garage door.

6. Motion activated external lights. These may or may not work. If you're in a more remote location, they may not deter someone.

7. A fence. Realistically, a standard size fence isn't going to keep anyone out or in. However, it does two things. First, it establishes a boundary. If someone jumps a fence to get at you, it shows some intent on his part. Second, the house without a fence is just a bit easier to get in and out of.

8. Alarm system. You have two options. Option one is to hire an alarm/security service and get hooked up with an alarm system that also alerts the company, who can both call the police on your behalf and send their own patrol. If you're on a budget, you can forgo the service part. If you get motion detectors on your main entrances, and glass break detectors on your windows, you're not looking at too much of an expense. You can hook those up to lights, noise makers, and even cameras. Cameras are great, because in the event of a robbery you can barricade in your bedroom and if the perpetrator leaves, you give the police a better chance of catching them. However, even a basic setup with a loud alarm serves a purpose. The housebreaker may run off if surprised by the sound, and if you're sleeping (and especially if you're a deep sleeper), that sound will wake you up pretty fast, and let you know something is going on. If you have an alarm company do a basic setup, you can get off fairly lightly on the bill and you also get the cool "Protected by..." company sign/sticker to put in your window or on your fence. The bad guy doesn't know whether you have the full service or not. I've also heard of cases where folks can get just the signs from a company, though I'm not sure about the accuracy of that claim. (I could see a liability issue for the alarm company there, so not sure if any would really do it.)

9. A canine companion. It'll cost you more in the long run, but a dog is a heck of a great thing to have around. A large dog may frighten a home invader off, or even subdue one. On the other hand, that dog can be very easily removed with pepper spray or a blunt instrument to the head by someone experienced with dealing with dogs. The most important thing to look for, in my opinion, is a breed that is alert and will let you know someone is there. In other words, an organic alarm system. My father's little terriers did the barking, but he always did the biting. True story: A serial rapist broke into my grandmother's house in Miami a few years back. My parents happened to be visiting and sleeping in the guest room. Their eight pound Yorkie woke them up, and my father ran the guy off. That dog did all of his fighting from the rear echelon, but he was a good little alarm system.

10. I probably left off something, so fill in the blanks here. My point in all of these is that they're relatively inexpensive things you can do which will give you two forms of protection. One, they will hopefully make criminals skip over your house when looking for a target. Two, they will lend some weight to your legal defense if you are forced to use a firearm to defend yourself. You made an effort to secure your property, and the criminal made a bigger effort to subvert your security measures.

That said, I have a few opinions on firearm selection, though a few of these will be repeats from prior posts. I'm going to spew them all out anyway because I'm on my lunch break and I'm feeling talkative. Or type-ative, perhaps? Anyway, here are some criteria/observations I've made, regarding home defense firearms.*

1. It should fit the shooter's hand. There is a nice article here, regarding handgun fitting. I just found that site last week, and I think it's a good resource for newer firearms owners. I suggest the OP point his father at it.

2. Caliber selection: Not less than .380 ACP for an auto, not less than .38 SPL for a revolver, unless a medical condition dictates otherwise. Whatever caliber it is, it should be something the shooter is comfortable with, because otherwise they will be reluctant to practice or even to break in the gun properly. Cost of ammo may be an issue as well. In that regard, 9mm is a good choice because it's the least expensive centerfire handgun caliber.

3. Stopping power and knockdown power don't exist. People stop fighting for a huge number of reasons, most of which the shooter has NO control over. Unless you make a fairly difficult CNS hit off the bat, the person isn't going to be forced to break off attacking by the wounds inflicted until their brain runs out of blood. Barring a solid CNS hit, handguns don't stop people. People stop themselves after getting shot. Your main concern is getting a weapon you can shoot straight under stress and getting a caliber that gives good penetration.

4. Auto versus Revolver. I hear people say that a revolver is easier to use than an automatic. Autos are more complicated machines, harder to clear, less reliable, etc. This is somewhat true and somewhat off at the same time. A well made revolver is very reliable. The Taurus stainless snubby .357 I had a few years back was not. (I'm not singling out Taurus, but they do have a bit of a rep for turning out revolvers that have weak mainsprings and that are prone to cylinder binding. I happened to get one of those.) So, quality counts. A good Smith and Wesson or Ruger revolver are going to generally be a solid bet though. Both can be had a great prices used. There are still a ton of retired police S&W revolvers floating around.

The second issue on revolvers is shooting accurately. It takes a LOT more training and practice to develop a good double action trigger pull than it does a single action pull. Even autos with a DA/SA have an edge on the follow up shots. and Glock or similar (Springfield XD, S&W M&P autos for example) trigger setups are easier on all shots.

Autos are also a little easier to hit with (more pointable) and more controllable in recoil than a revolver due to lower bore axis.

5. Get training and get practice. There's no excuse not to get trained both in the mechanical aspects and the legal aspects of use. You won't be proficient, especially under stress, if you don't get trained and get in some practice time.

6. If you don't have a gun in your hand, you're not going to get much of a chance to use it. This argues against the long gun, whether shotgun or carbine, for home defense. I'm not saying both aren't superior in a fight. What I'm saying is that in a home invasion, you will either be taken while you answer the door, on your way to the door from your vehicle (or way out) or at any random time someone breeches your door or window to enter your home. Someone could come through my sliding window (hate those) or my front door as I sit typing this. I'll have to fight them off with my can of Pledge or an ink pen, though.

If you have only ONE gun in the home, I think it's a good idea that it's one you'll have with you at all times. Most people aren't going to drag a shotgun from room to room throughout the day. It's also a lot more discrete to answer the door with a small handgun in your pocket (concealed hammer revolvers excel here) than a shotgun in hand.**

Anyway, my suggestion for the OP would be a small or medium frame revolver from Smith and Wesson or Ruger. This is mainly because his father has at least some prior experience with revolvers. It's also easier to fit a revolver by changing out the grips. I'd suggest three inch or smaller barrel if he's going to be carrying it concealed or in the car, and if it's legal where he lives to do so.

The shorter barrel really is not an impediment to accurate shooting at close range if the gun fits the hand. A longer sight radius means that errors in sight alignment are somewhat mitigated. However, if the shot has to come fast at very short range, just getting the front sight on target is good enough if aiming center mass. If the gun fits the hand, just extending the gun hand towards the attacker gets you halfway home on aiming it.

Also a shorter barrel is more manageable in a grapple situation and a little harder for someone to grab in a disarm attempt.

A nice J-frame S&W .22LR might be a good companion piece to a J-frame .38spl or .357mag. for cheap practice. The main issue IMO on practicing with a DA revolver is getting that DA trigger under control, which can be done with the .22LR.

Another thing you should look at is getting snap caps to practice dry firing.

If your father decides to look at automatics, there are a few which have good reputations.

The Bersa .380 Thunder has already been mentioned. I do not have first hand experience with these, but they have developed a really good reputation for reliability. Bersa has a non-PP clone in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP, and those are also spoken highly of. They're about the same dimensions height and length as the 380s, but a bit thicker.

Stoeger now makes the Cougar, which used to be a Beretta. (Beretta is now making the polymer framed PX4 Storm pistols with a similar design.) These are made on the same equipment as the Berettas, but in the Turkish Stoeger plant. (Beretta owns Stoeger.) From all reports the are as reliable as the originals. They have better ergonomics than some of the thicker gripped and longer trigger pull double stack autos and come in 9mm and .40 S&W. They're service sized sidearms, but they're on the small side of that, so should be a decent size. They have softer recoil than some other pistols in the same calibers due to their rotary barrel setup, which may be a plus for older shooters.




*Just remember, my opinion is worth every penny you paid for it! I'm not a lawyer or a gunfighter, so don't take anything said here as legal advice.

**If you DO pocket carry, I suggest getting a pocket holster, even at home. I've heard more than one story of someone getting other stuff in their pocket into the trigger guard and causing a ND because of it.
 
get your dad a ultralight titanium model 38spl made by taurus.it is in the price range you want, and is a revolver. 5shot capacity, and rasy to use.just point and pull the trigger. an auto is to complicated for a novice shooter. it is all you need.
 
I keep a shotgun under the bed and a Springfield XD in the drawer just in case I'm not able to get down under the bed to get it. I really prefer the springfield XD over glocks, but that's mainly personal preference. Glocks are great too, just like the way the XD fits in my hand. Both are sold in multiple barrel lengths and calibers. Personally I think if he's never really shot before than the double action revolver is a good idea so he won't jam the semi-auto on accident. The only thing I would say is that a double action revolver without a trigger job is probably harder to shoot accurately then either the glock or semi-auto. If his fingers are not used to shooting he may jerk the gun way back on a double action revolver. To be totally honest I would suggest that he really do some practicing with both and then choose. You don't give a gun to somebody that doesn't know how to use it. Even if it's just practicing once a month that would be the best. Tell him to remember to change the ammo every so often and shoot up the old ammo!!
 
PS. I also agree with the guys that recommend not to get a Taurus. Have had problems with them in the past misfiring and such. Go with ruger or smith and wesson for revolvers!
 
I would suggest a full size and stainless Lframe or K frame S&W. This means a model 686 or a 64, 65 or 66.

Ultra light titanium or scandium are nice to carry but hurt like heck to shoot, and older folks are much more susceptible to the effects of recoil.

A shotgun will work best INSIDE the house, a short youth model will be easy to swing and still much more punch than a handgun. Bird shot as a first couple will work fine. At bad breath distances it is more than effective, and disregarding some advice a good lawyer will easily say it was for pest and used only in response to a deadly threat.

Making a self defense decision based on what a prosecuting atty might say is just silly. There is no way a elderly person, threatened in his own house, in a free state is going to be charged for shooting a BG who is inside his house without permission.

I do not know all the laws of Costa Rica, but private gun ownership is allowed, and that would lead me to believe that self defense is allowed.

Types of Legal Firearms: Individuals are only allowed to possess the following weapons:
.12-.22 caliber non-automatic pistols and rifles;
Up to .45 caliber semiautomatic pistols and rifles;
Up to 12 gauge shotguns;
Up to .460 caliber rifles and carbines;
Weapons which form part of authorized collections;
Weapons used for sports and hunting.
Purposes of Lawful Firearms Ownership: sports, hunting, collection
DOMESTIC FIREARM LEGISLATION (4)
The 1995 Arms Law gives responsibility in the fields of granting and registering firearms permits to an organ of the Ministry of Public Security called the General Arms Board. The Board is required to compile and maintain up-to-date registers of all weapons in the country.
Licencing Requirements: Licences are only granted once detailed information on the weapon and owner is taken by the Department, and once the owner has demonstrated competence in basic mechanics, handling and safety measures. Residents can acquire, possess and carry weapons in accordance with the law. Article 7 stipulates that the following groups cannot carry weapons:
those on parole;
those under 18, unless accompanied by an adult purely for hunting or target-shooting purposes, and then only those over 14;
those with physical or mental disabilities affecting the handling of firearms;
those who have been convicted of an offense with a firearm, if an order from a competent authority exists forbidding them from the use of firearms.
Registration Requirements: Under normal circumstances individuals cannot register more than three weapons for personal use.
Training Requirements: Aptitude to handle firearms is a condition for granting a legitimate user licence. However, submission of documentation to certify such aptitude is only required, in practice, in cases where the legitimate user licence is being sought for a military weapon for conditional civilian use, or when an existing legitimate user applies for a permit to carry his or her weapon.
Storage Requirements: n/a
Prohibited Firearms: n/a
Penalties: n/a
MANUFACTURE, IMPORT AND EXPORT
It is illegal to manufacture, own, carry, import, use or deal in weapons that with a single pull of the trigger can fire more than one projectile in succession, or semiautomatic weapons whose magazines carry more than ten units.
REFERENCES
CIA, The World Factbook, Costa Rica: http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html.
Except for the Overview, this national profile was adapted from Costa Rica: Diagnostico Armas de Fuego by Max Loria for the Arias Foundation for Peace and Human Progress, 2000 (translated by Greg Puley).
© SAFER-Net 2003


It would appear that you can get your dad a gun...
 
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