my first 110 , in cpm-154 or s30v?

michaelm466

michaelm466

Joined
Mar 5, 2009
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I'm looking to purchase my first Buck knife (I mostly have spydercos and benchmades) I know I want the 110 because it is such a classic. However i've been spoiled by super steels and in a folder edge holding is one of the most importants aspects, however i also like trying new steels which for me would be cpm154, which version do you prefer and why? id also like your experience with either version.
 
hi there
my vote is go with s30v
s30v was designed as a cutlery steel
to provide the best all around improvements over less expensive steels
i had one s30v that Buck put in a 560 frame i had with a broke blade
and i really really like it a lot...
touched up easy and held a edge cutting fiber glass ins for a long long time
while admitting that i have not tried a user in cpm154
what i hear in reviews does not make me want to
get one over s30v
i think there is one advantage that 154 has over s30v
but unless you know you need that why bother

s30v is highly recommended by Bos and that is good enough for me
as that man knows steel...
that said
be sure to read my sig line..
 
I think it will be easier to get a s30v cuz you can order it from the Custom shop, dont see a lot of cpm 154's around in my travels.
 
110 Dave said:
hi there
my vote is go with s30v
s30v was designed as a cutlery steel
to provide the best all around improvements over less expensive steels
Click to expand...
I'm agree with Mr. 110 Dave
I vote for the S30V steel , because I use this one of Cabelas AG series.
Or you can create your personal knife in Buck's Custom shop.
 
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Welcome to the Buck forum Michael! My first choice for a super 110 would be the Alaskan Guide 110 from Cabelas. It has s30v steel & Bos heat treatment.It's as close to a custom as you can get without shelling out big bucks. I like the 154 too but the s30v holds an edge maybe just a little :)better.For the money imho that may just be the knife ever! If you want a special handle and such you could order a custom from Buck.If you're looking for a user you can't go wrong with the AG 110.:thumbup:
 
A 110 with a CPM-154 blade is very easy to come by. BPS sells them and they look very much like the AG without the gold emblem on the blade. A very handsome knife!
 
I vote S30V as well. From my own experience it is a great steel.

Here is a report from a Buck insider:

Bill Keys said:
Steel is like a good internet rumor; a lot of mystique, some truth, some slight of hand and a whole lot of (mis)conceptions. In terms of corrosion resistance, 420HC is superior to both S30V or 154CM. We have run a number of tests/trials in our Engineering and QA groups over the a number of years, and 420HC consistently provides the best corrosion resistance. It is also better than 440C in this area.

As far as edge holding, using Buck's heat treat and edging process, S30V is best, 154CM next and then 420HC; I specifically reference Buck's processes here because we have (CATRA) tested other's products (heat treated and edged by them) and have found knives with 154CM, ATS34, etc do not perform (edge retention) as well as our 420HC; don't under estimate the value of heat treat and proper edging/sharpening.

On toughness, in most cases, S30V will probably outperform 420HC and 154CM. To obtain maximum sharpness and edge holding out of the 420HC, we push the envelope on hardness for this type of material. That is not to say 420HC does not have some ductility, but maximum toughness for 420HC would be obtained in the Rc 55-58 range, but that plays heck with edge retention. The chemistry of S30V is such that when properly heat treated it give very good edge retention and good toughness.

Oh, heat treat can also have an impact on corrosion resistance; poor/improper heat treat can negatively impact the corrosion resistance of all of these steels.

ATS34 is Japanese 154CM; the chemistry is virtually identical. ATS34 is produced by Hitachi in Japan, and 154CM is produced by Crucible Metals in the US- BTW, Crucible was just purcahsed in bankruptcy by someone else, but they are continuing operations. A number of years ago, 154CM was difficult to get for companies such as Buck, we did not use enough of it to make it worth while for Crucible to produce for us. But at the time Hitachi was more than willing to supply the cutlery markets. this changed a few years ago, and the availabilty of 154CM was no longer a problem and for us at least, became slightly less expensive than ATS34. Thus the transition to 154CM.

So, if you want a "user" knife, can afford the upcharge, and want the best edge retention, S30V is your best option. If you want a "looker"/display knife, don't spend the extra money, just go with the 420HC. If you want a good general use knife and can't afford the premium steel the 420HC also makes a good choice. To ME, the 154CM is not a value choice either way; it is better at edge retention than 420HC, but if you're going to spend extra for that, spend a littel more and get the S30V- that is a personal opinion (I hope I haven't offended any fans of 154CM). I have carried 420HC knives for many years. I do now carry an S30V small Vantage with Paperstone handles, but that's sort of like the car lot manager getting to drive one of the Ferraris, it's one of the fringe benefits of being in that role.

Bill Keys
Director of Manufcturing and Engineering
Buck Knives, Inc
Click to expand...
 
I knew I liked my s30v blades for some reason other than being a steel snob. Now with that post from Bill Keys, I have a reasoning for it.;) I do own both steels in question, and would not hesitate to carry either as a user. It was posted by CJ that he liked the cpm154 maybe a little bit more, because of the finer grain structer of it, and that it can be heat treated to a higher rc. So as far as which one is better, that maybe a personel choice as to which one you feel is better. Every body will have an opinion, that is why both are being offered. :eek: HL
 
14Bucks, we all know that the real answer to the question is to buy one of each. :)
 
I4Bucks said:
I do own both steels in question, and would not hesitate to carry either as a user. It was posted by CJ that he liked the cpm154 maybe a little bit more, because of the finer grain structer of it, and that it can be heat treated to a higher rc. So as far as which one is better, that maybe a personel choice as to which one you feel is better. Every body will have an opinion, that is why both are being offered. :eek: HL
Click to expand...

:thumbup:

All I could possibly add to this post, is well....... Buy one of each :D
 
I don't think at Bill's writing he was referencing CPM-154 . CJ in his writing did and went on to say that both (S30V)were equal in edge retention as the CPM-154 is cooked to higher hardness . First Michael I wouldn't let edge retention be a sole reason for purchasing a knife . Like Mr. Keys said, heat treat is important and I'd put the blades profile in there for the top 3 reasons . As that will determine how it cuts, quick or sluggish . The steel and heat treat determine how long it cuts . Also, sharpening and stroping have a accent in the pie . So, what do you want to cut gives us insight toward the answer . Most people who purchase high end steels today like S30V don't really use them enough to merit it . They really want status like owning a Browning shotgun when a Remington will do the same . That said, I own 110's with both the steels you mention and have taken them to their limit of edge retention . A lot of guys don't process one deer a year let alone the several it takes to finally dull these knives or other cutting chores . I've also over the past years sharpened the two 110's up and shaved with them . On this song there is a difference in the two which is why I ask the question . DM
 
David Martin said:
Most people who purchase high end steels today like S30V don't really use them enough to merit it . They really want status like owning a Browning shotgun when a Remington will do the same .
Click to expand...

Wow, that's a loaded statement. I'm not sure how one determines why most people select one steel over another. For my use I've found that S30V holds up well in cutting, including heavy duty work, better than 420HC. S30V enables me to retain a razor edge longer. There is a trade off. Sharpening S30V (by hand) takes me longer than sharpening 420HC, but in using a 420HC knife I find myself sharpening and touching it up more frequently. 154CM and CPM 154 seems to me to be quicker to sharpen than S30V, though I haven't used the 154s enough to compare them to 420HC.

I purchase high end steels because I like them. I don't look at it as a status symbol because I don't show off my knives. They are for me and for my pleasure in collecting. I think Mr. Keys lends a good guide. I use 420HC in salt water applications (salmon fishing, salt water boating) because of his recommendations. I do notice that S30V spots in salt water, though in my case it has not been permanent. I recently bought a "like new" BG-42 knife and will some day put that in the field and see how I like it. I buy high end steels because I like quality. I also appreciate craftsmanship. Paul Bos turned a mid-to-low grade steel, 420HC into a contender with higher end steels. Not as high performance, but noteworthy. That's craftsmanship. :)
 
wolfdog said:
Wow, that's a loaded statement. I'm not sure how one determines why most people select one steel over another.
Click to expand...

I agree with David, at least as far as I and most of my friends are concerned.
The way in which we use our knives on a daily basis doesn't really require anything better than Buck's 420HC. I buy S30V (or other higher end steel) mainly because I've been conditioned to believe that they are necessary and not because for the average user they are necessary. That and the fact that they are better for bragging rights are why I think many folks have to have them.;)
 
To each their own. I've noticed a difference in the steels. With S30V I do mostly touching-up of the edge with a fine grit, whereas with 420HC I seem to do more out-and-out sharpening going through different grits. I do recognize that you are a collector in a true sense, and that you most likely don't use most of the knives you buy very much. You collect as I do to an extent, I think, because it's a pleasure in itself. Brand name doesn't attach some sort of status to me. But I'll choose a brand that seems to maintain a certain level of quality, and/or backs it's work with excellent customer service, as Buck does.
 
My favorite knives that I carry often, have 425M steel, I like their grind and they cut well . If they get dull I'm near home and I sharpen them . Another has 420 and one S30V . But its their shape and grind I like and handle material . Heck, I don't care get what you want . Just some things to think about . Dm
 
Between CPM154 and S30V....just flip a coin, you can't go wrong with either steel. ;)


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Overall, I prefer the S30V.
 
Allen, I agree . Both cut for a long time . But during shaving I noticed a difference in how the two steels cut . CPM-154 takes a finer edge which I noticed during shaving . Both steels can be sharpened to a fine edge, S30V will 'bite' while cutting whiskers whereas CPM-154 just snips them off . I dulled this same S30V blade when sharpened to a high refined edge while caping out one Mule deer buck . Scraping bone is hard on any steel . I touched it up just a few strokes on a x-fine diamond and this returned it back to life . Once I dull it again I'll touch it up on a more coarse stone which will help the edge last longer . Just not the edge for shaving, more general purpose . DM
 
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