My First Blade (and a HT question : )

L

LightHunter222

Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
12
Hi Guys
I've just finished profiling my first blade that ive made from a 1080/15N20 Raindrop Damascus Billet and i have a couple of questions.. I've done days and days of research and ive become slightly confused, so would really appreciate some simple straight answers if anyone is obliging!

I cut the rough shape of the blade from the 5.5mm Billet with a jigsaw, keeping it cool with water. Then roughly profiled using a 5 inch Angle Grinder and slotting disk and a flap disk, again keeping it cool.




I then spent about 5 days filing by hand using various files/smoothing files and then finishing with emery paper and also doing a sneaky FC dip to check the patterning :)







I am now ready to start the Heat Treatment process, although i dont have a forge yet (im in the process) or a temp controllable oven :(
As i want this to be a very tough and usable knife, i'd like to have a hard edge with some degree of flexibility in the backbone of the blade and also the Pommel and Guard to be tough enough to hammer with if the situation demanded.
Currently i only have Oxy-Acetylene but am keeping my eyes open for a cheap furnace/oven with thermostatic control as i have a feeling this would be more controllable for the Normalising/Hardening/Tempering process?
The Blade is made from 1080/15N20 and im confused as to the correct temps and times for Normalising and Hardening.. and also i have made the Pommel and Guard from the same Billet of Damascus and was thinking of using 3mm stainless steel bar for the rivets (im thinking 3 along the Guard and 4 on the Pommel as i want it to be V tough)
Now should the Guard and Pommel pieces be DEFINITELY riveted after HT? and just the Holes drilled prior? I've superglued them on atm just for shaping. The Tang is completely full and runs through the Guard and Pommel.
Any specific info for HT of 1080/15N20 Damascus GREATLY appreciated!!
Thanks for looking
Klaran
 
Ah, good... I'm not the only one to make the first blade out of damascus. Welcome to the forum.

Since you don't have proper heat treating equipment yet, you might consider sending the blade to Peters Heat Treating. It will take a few weeks to get it back, but you can be assured they will do it right.

- Greg
 
Two issues:
1) A torch won't properly harden that blade. Send it out or take it over to another makers shop.
2) How are those bolsters attached? If they are soldered on, you have a problem, as they will unsolder during HT. If just pinned, you may be OK, but I would suggest attaching after HT in most cases.

Additionally, I would have curved the guard bolsters from both sides for looks. You should still be able to do this.
 
It looks like a good sized blade. You worried too much about not heating it up. You only have to watch your heat after it is heat treated. But before you heat it you can get it pretty hot, and just correct your heating by normalizing before HT.

1080/15n20 should be HT'd the same way you HT 1080. Like Stacy said, you can't do it with a torch, so either create a crude forge to do it (1080 is fairly straight forward to HT with a forge) or find someone nearby to help - another smith in the area or send it out.
Jason
 
I just want to say, that`s a great job for your first blade.
Darcy:)
 
I would go more with the HT for the 15N20, which will have about the same temperature ( 1500F) for 1080, but should get a short soak.
 
I know everyone says you can't get it hot enough with a torch but I'm curious about that. I know big blades are basically impossible but I have managed to get smaller blades in the 3 inch range past non mag easily using just two propane torches. Not trying to thread jack here but didn't think it was worth its own thread. Is there really anything wrong with doing it that way other than its hard to control?
 
LightHunter222 said:
I've superglued them on atm just for shaping. The Tang is completely full and runs through the Guard and Pommel.
Click to expand...

Thats a good idea :)

That nice blade deserves to be sent out and HT properly.
 
The difference in thermal mass between a 3" X 1/8" blade and a 10" X 1/4" blade is huge. To evenly heat such a large blade to 1500F ( a lot above non-magnetic) and hold it at that exact spot for 5 minutes is not attainable with a torch.

As I often point out, CAN and SHOULD are two different words. You CAN jump off a cliff into unknown waters and live....but I don''t think you SHOULD do it.
 
It never ceases to amaze me how many people chime into a topic like this suggesting people can do things the wrong way, after good advice about the proper way to do things has been provided. It just seems wrong-headed to me to encourage newbies to try something that has a VERY low probability of giving good results just to save $30 (or less).

Apart from the "HT with a torch" examples, there's the "etch your mark with salt water instead of etching solution" group, and the "use your angle grinder to grind bevels" folks... not to mention the "go ahead and make a knife using nothing but a Dremel" people. Oy vey.

Why would anyone encourage a newbie to do these things?
 
Nice looking blade. I just finished my second and chose to use Peters HT. His prices just went up but still considering the cost of tooling up to do it at home and getting it right I think $25.00 and shipping and handling is reasonable. though it is a $7.00 jump over 2 weeks ago. plus about $10. S/H.
He will include cryogenic and tempering processing as well as the initial Ht and will place it at the Rc you elect.
It took 10 days and I had mine back.

If I chose to pin the guard and pommel I'd get all the drilling accomplished first then Im thinking the guard and pommel could be HT'd at hone with the torch and save that cost.

Any reason you wouldn't silver solder the hardware onto the blade?
 
From Tennessee said:
Nice looking blade. I just finished my second and chose to use Peters HT. His prices just went up but still considering the cost of tooling up to do it at home and getting it right I think $25.00 and shipping and handling is reasonable. though it is a $7.00 jump over 2 weeks ago. plus about $10. S/H.
He will include cryogenic and tempering processing as well as the initial Ht and will place it at the Rc you elect.
It took 10 days and I had mine back.

If I chose to pin the guard and pommel I'd get all the drilling accomplished first then Im thinking the guard and pommel could be HT'd at hone with the torch and save that cost.

Any reason you wouldn't silver solder the hardware onto the blade?
Click to expand...



Thats a really good idea about the Silver Soldering, i have been making Gold and Silver jewellery for years, do you mean that kind of |Silver Solder? ie: easy medium and hard content solders? or do you mean a soft silver solder like you would use in electronics?
Also like to thank everybody for their input, i don't know of any Heat Treaters in the UK, but i have contacted a SwordSmith and am awaiting a reply...
Cheers
K
 
tryppyr said:
It never ceases to amaze me how many people chime into a topic like this suggesting people can do things the wrong way, after good advice about the proper way to do things has been provided. It just seems wrong-headed to me to encourage newbies to try something that has a VERY low probability of giving good results just to save $30 (or less).

Apart from the "HT with a torch" examples, there's the "etch your mark with salt water instead of etching solution" group, and the "use your angle grinder to grind bevels" folks... not to mention the "go ahead and make a knife using nothing but a Dremel" people. Oy vey.

Why would anyone encourage a newbie to do these things?
Click to expand...

You forgot.... "Hand filing for hours " ,when it only takes minutes on a belt grinder, to make a knife group :)
 
I was not in any way attempting to instruct anyone to just use a torch instead of proper heat treating methods. I was asking a question on my own about whether or not there was a deffinite reason that a torch could not be used on sone small blades. I fully understand that soaking is nearly impossible with a torch for those steels that require longer soak times. I also understand that getting an even heat on the steel is very difficult. And I know that you could not heat a blade that large with a torch anyway. I was just stating that for some very small knives when I started I used a torch and made it work, but was curious if there were serious problems caused by doing it this way when I did. I no longer torch them. And am sending them away until I can afford a proper kiln. I was just curious since I have very limited knowledge of metallurgy and am very new to this whole scene. My knife building advice is likely the last persons anyone should take, and I was not intending to give any out.

tryppyr said:
It never ceases to amaze me how many people chime into a topic like this suggesting people can do things the wrong way, after good advice about the proper way to do things has been provided. It just seems wrong-headed to me to encourage newbies to try something that has a VERY low probability of giving good results just to save $30 (or less).

Apart from the "HT with a torch" examples, there's the "etch your mark with salt water instead of etching solution" group, and the "use your angle grinder to grind bevels" folks... not to mention the "go ahead and make a knife using nothing but a Dremel" people. Oy vey.

Why would anyone encourage a newbie to do these things?
Click to expand...
 
LightHunter,

Since you do not have PM's or emails allowed I will post this here, I see you are from Wales. I would suggest you also join British Blades here is a link, http://www.britishblades.com/forums/index.php. Go to the forum called the Cutlers Forge and intro yourself, I am sure there are a few smiths that can help you there with your heat treat.
 
Thankyou Mike, very much appreciated! And i didn't actually realise that PM's and email were not enabled..
I'll join British Blades, thanks for the prompt!!

Kind Regards
Klaran

Mike Turner said:
LightHunter,

Since you do not have PM's or emails allowed I will post this here, I see you are from Wales. I would suggest you also join British Blades here is a link, http://www.britishblades.com/forums/index.php. Go to the forum called the Cutlers Forge and intro yourself, I am sure there are a few smiths that can help you there with your heat treat.
Click to expand...
 
Mike Thankyou, i didn't realise that PM's and emails were not enabled..
I'll join British Blades, thanks for the prompt!!
Kind Regards
Klaran

Mike Turner said:
LightHunter,

Since you do not have PM's or emails allowed I will post this here, I see you are from Wales. I would suggest you also join British Blades here is a link, http://www.britishblades.com/forums/index.php. Go to the forum called the Cutlers Forge and intro yourself, I am sure there are a few smiths that can help you there with your heat treat.
Click to expand...
 
Klaran, you would need to be a paid member here to get Private Messages through the forums. But you can set your profile to allow emails. Go to Settings in the upper right and then down the left side to General Settings where you will find

Messaging & Notification
Receive Email:
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Check the ones you want. (All are a good idea.)
 
Thankyou, Done : )

K


Esav Benyamin said:
Klaran, you would need to be a paid member here to get Private Messages through the forums. But you can set your profile to allow emails. Go to Settings in the upper right and then down the left side to General Settings where you will find

Messaging & Notification
Receive Email:
Receive Email from Administrators
Receive Email from Other Members
Receive Friendship Request Email

Check the ones you want. (All are a good idea.)
Click to expand...
 
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