my first knife is now a knife-shaped garden implement

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May 28, 2013
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I tried to use a file, didn't work. is 1095 a good steel to buy? and what do I do? heat the a cm or two of the blade near the edge red hot, quench in water or oil, then temper to straw at the blade and blue at the spine, then oven temper for a couple hours??
 
1084 or lower don't require a soak and are more tolerant of overheating and retrys. 1095 you have to hold at just the right temperature for several minutes ( see: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/793248-1095-soak?p=8921466#post8921466). With water you run the risk of cracking your blade, warmed canola oil is the safer route. If you only heat the edge there would be no reason to temper back the spine with a torch since it wont have gotten very hard. Unless you are going for a hamon its better to heat the whole blade evenly and get the whole thing hard, then temper back the spine as desired. You should also never take a torch to the edge, leave that completely to the oven. You've got a lot of reading to do before you get started.

Here is the stickied FAQ http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...mon-Questions-Asked-by-New-Makers-and-Members
 
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From what I understand, 1095 is a good steel - IF you can heat treat it perfectly, it's a steel with near zero tolerance for error. Are you wanting a shallow hardening steel like 1095, in attempt to achieve a hamon? Also, what exactly are you using for heat treatment, and did you attempt heat treating the file? How long was the file knife kept above non-magnetic (1400 - 1414 Fahrenheit)? What methods did you use to shape the file, and did the edge ever get red hot during the shaping

The answers to these questions are very important for determining what happened the first time, as well as figuring out what the best steps should be for the next attempt.
 
No... 1095 isn't that simple, despite what some may tell you. It takes heating to a precise temperature and then has to be dropped 1000 degrees drastically, but controlled, in about one second. A torch is going to give you a knife that may seem hardened, but not. It usually ends up more like jello with ice cubes in it if you take that route, meaning areas of hardness surrounded by soft metal. The reason why is a torch will never get the whole edge to the right temperature and maintain it there until the exact moment it needs to be quenched. It isn't overly complicated, but it is harder than a lot of people give it credit for. Most who state they just eyeballed it with a torch most likely did not have a properly heat treated blade.

Try 1084 first. Files, saw blades, old car springs, lawnmower blades, can all be something different and sometimes unique. It takes a while before you can predictably work with mystery steel, and then it is still a crap shoot. 1084 is pretty forgiving, and can be done with a torch. I always caution new makers from trying to gauge temperature by color, even with a chart. My red isn't your red, etc. For an example, I have heard "blood red" for steel for years, however have never seen steel in any state that I would call blood red. Hence why it is hard to take another's advice when it comes to color indicators.

Read the stickies, lots of good info in there for a first knife and steel choice.
 
Not to steal thunder or anything, non-magnetic is also not a good indicator...

Steel will BECOME non-magnetic at around 1400 degrees, but is considerably cooler before it regains its magnetic qualities. Hence, "holding it above that" is impossible to gauge.

And I think what happened the first time was using mystery steel... I can't stress this enough to new makers. You will spin your wheels over and over until you get known content steel to work with...
 
First, I'm guessing you weren't trying for a hamon on your file knife. Therefore, you need to heat the entire knife, blade and handle, not just a centimeter or two of the edge.

1095 is a good steel but it has a more complex heat treat regimen than say 1084. It is difficult for someone starting out to HT at home. Files are also difficult to HT and can be hit or miss on what alloy they are or if they are hardenable steel or just case-hardened mild steel.

Go to http://newjerseysteelbaron.com/shop/1084/ and buy some. It is easy to work with, simple to HT, and a good all around carbon steel. Use ~130* canola oil as oic0 said. DO NOT use water, it will very more than likely crack your knife.

Also, go read through the stickies. Read through them again. Now read some more, they are very helpful and hold more knowledge than one can glean from just a few quick readings.
 
Read the stickies, lots of good info in there for a first knife and steel choice.



Haha, if I had a dollar for every time I forget to mention the stickies.

Chemistguy, I second the advice given by Lucy and oic0, they know what they're talking about. A big mistake when I first started was thinking that medium red is medium red and there was no variation. I quickly found out someone else's "medium red" was my "medium orange".

Sorry about sort of repeating your advice, Lucy. Just trying to re-enforce and back up what you were saying.
 
No worries, I would rather hear it agreed with than the usual, where I feel like the old guy muttering to himself in the corner booth of the Ihop....
 
Haha, if I had a dollar for every time I forget to mention the stickies.

Chemistguy, I second the advice given by Lucy and oic0, they know what they're talking about. A big mistake when I first started was thinking that medium red is medium red and there was no variation. I quickly found out someone else's "medium red" was my "medium orange".

Sorry about sort of repeating your advice, Lucy. Just trying to re-enforce and back up what you were saying.

I had problems with judging color too, but luckily with 1084 you can try multiple times without ruining the steel so with my first few I just kept going up until I hit that temperature where the carbon blasts off the whole blade and my pocket knife wont scratch it. I think I read with the hypoeuctoids its better to overheat than not get hot enough as it will be a bit more brittle if overheated but it will be crap if not heated enough.
 
?"I think I read with the hypoeuctoids its better to overheat than not get hot enough as it will be a bit more brittle if overheated but it will be crap if not heated enough."

Did you mean Hypereutectoid steel?
 
I really hope your next blade project is a full success, Chemist. I for one would be interested to see the work in progress.
 
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