My first knife. Looking for feedback, and criticism.

[connorr93]

I decided today I would try to make a knife. I have absolutely no experience with knife making so go easy. I went into the garage found a old rusty file and started grinding away. I used a old bench grinder with uneven, rounded, and wobbly wheels. I ground for about 45minutes freehand then took it inside wrapped some paracord on it and used the sypderco sharpmaker stones to try to put some type of edge on it. Heres the result.

Heres the grinder I used.

 

[Fletch Helical]

Well it looks like a file that you ground an edge on then wrapped paracord around . But welcome to the makers section. There is a thread here that is in the sticky section that talks about how to make a knife from a file. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/907667-How-to-Make-a-Knife-From-a-File You really should anneal a file before you start working with it. If you really want to get into making a a knife that doesn't look like a file I'd suggest next time annealing it and then putting the proper bevels on it which should come up a lot higher on the blade. It looks like a chisel ground edge except you did it on both sides which really isn't a chisel grind. And while I can't feel it the jimping on the top seems like it would be a bit harsh. IMO there really is no substitute for buying a piece of known steel and starting from there, especially if you aren't able to anneal the steel. The good thing is you have a desire to make knives and there are plenty of folks on here to help out. I'm nowhere near as advanced as a lot of the folks on here and I'm sure others will chime in but it's a start. What I suggest is you read through the how to make a knife thread and some of the other stickys on here and I think it will help get you started in the right direction.

 

[Battle Creek Knives]

hey man looks great !!! fun stuff huh??

I like it, you jumped up from board-um went out and slammed out a knife how cool is that??

yeah there's always the right way and wrong way but in the end you created a knife shaped object that your proud of, I applaud you... dig in and you'll find you can still turn that into a masterpiece.. .

take care

 

[tryppyr]

Hey, I have the same bench grinder. It's what I used when I started out, too!

I recommend replacing that light bulb with a compact fluorescent with more light output... and then replacing that grinder with something that works better.

By the way, you can buy replacement wheels for the grinder, if you want.

Oh, about the first knife... you missed a lot of steps. The stickies can be your friend.

 

[12345678910]

The Count's Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V30

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than a 60 year old machinist
We have members worldwide, you may have a local supplier, hammerin or helpful neighbour.
Please join our community and fill out your profile with location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment and hobbies so we get a sense of where and who you are.

Look at the threads stuck to the top of the page.

The basics in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save http://www.2shared.com/document/hk4wQruA/Absolute_Cheapskate_Way_to_Sta.html
http://www.prepperlinks.net/uploads/9/0/4/0/9040002/making_simple_knives.pdf
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3622507/Jones-Scott-Jonesy-Absolute-Cheapskate-Way-to-Start-Making-Knives


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694673

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?8og1ix21j9dcz4n

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?02ra4do6xyzayeq

Bob Egnath how to http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9435307&postcount=43

BladeForums - E-books or Google books http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Books I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
Clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive.

Knife Design:
Think thin. Forget swords, saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.

Start with a drawing and show us, we love to comment on photos.
Then make a cardboard cutout template & draw in handles, pins and such.
Use playdough to shape a comfortable handle, good handles are not flat.

How to post a photo
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...AL-Displaying-your-photographs-on-BladeForums

Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Bob Engnath Patterns in a PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?qgx7yebn77n77qx


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith - A modern book with colour photos - forging - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF Http://www.archive.org/download/elementarymachin00palmrich/elementarymachin00palmrich.pdf

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF http://ia700309.us.archive.org/6/items/completepractic00rosegoog/completepractic00rosegoog.pdf
Right Click and save link as.
It’s being reprinted now if you prefer paper books

The $50 knife Shop
This book has a great title, but is NOT gospel. It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

Forget the Goop Quench BS, Even back when they used whale oil, it was still liquid oil.
Use a commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
Grocery store canola oil works for some steels like 1084.

Junkyard steel requires skill and experience to identify and heat treat it properly.
Forget Lawnmower blades and railroad spike, start with a new known steel.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply, and quench in Canola.

Cable damascus is an advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but 2x72” belt grinders free plans are now on the web.


Videos

Don't be this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEOTtslHARQ

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.howtomakeaknife.net/FreeStuff/SafetyVideo.wmv

Many knifemaking videos are available, some better than others.

The best beginner videos I have seen:
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with inlays, machine stitching)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
Use a piece of known steel, not a file. This as an example of doing it by hand with few tools.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles I mentioned too - spend some time searching.

Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/499...femaking_Basics_-_Make_a_Mora_Bushcraft_Knife

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

See a list of videos for rent and read the reviews, Some are good, some bad, expect to wait weeks or months

http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dec78RQsokw

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades ,files and other unknown junkyard steels.
For all the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, 1095, 1084
Or air quenched A2, CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.

For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel and quench in Canola oil.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheapest & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

Suppliers List
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)

FAQ's
http://www.hypefreeblades.com/faq.html

1095 is a good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 is "Hypereutectioid" and needs very precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K
Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/673173-Working-the-three-steel-types

If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 or CPM-s35vn and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 because of HT minimum charges.

(Darrin Sanders now offers HT on single blades in oil hardening steels)

Quenchants for Oil hardening steel
Forget the Goop Quench and Motor oil.

Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
The best explanation and classification oil speeds I've seen
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?28197-Hardening-II-Quenching

Grocery store canola oil works well enough for your first knife-if you use the right steel like 1084

Brine and water are cheap, and technically correct for "water hardening" steels W1 and 1095 but a fast oil like Parks 50 or Houghton Houghto Quench K are less likely to give you broken blades
If you use water or brine, expect to hear a "tink" and have a cracked or broken blade

Glue – Epoxy
Use a new package of slow setting 30 min to 1 hour, high strength epoxy to attach blades to handles and seal out moisture.
Slow epoxy is stronger and gives you time to work with it.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive or blasting is best.
Ensure the surface is clean and no oil including fingerprints.
Use Acetone & Alcohol, or Blasting.
Don't' over clamp to avoid a “glue starved joint” when all the adhesive is squeezed out.
Use:
Brownell's Acraglas
West Systems G Flex
JB Weld


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Just use 1084 instead of a file.

Stacy - 10 Tools
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1049666-Ten-Tools?p=11983527#post11983527

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg
Http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8486/8152684286_312b9fc8da_b.jpg


Grinders
In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential on a good grinder.
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than you first think.

Entry Level Grinders
Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921513000P?prdNo=3

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qfYT_m2Tw0


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://www.wilmontgrinders.com/Pages/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html



VFD Variable Speed made simple

Step pulleys are not as cheap as you may think
Maska cast steel pulleys are good and well balanced $75 EACH here plus shaft, bearings, belt

It all adds up to about 1/2 the price of a KBAC-27D

I like direct drive with no belts using a VFD and 3 phase motor for about $200 over the price of the step pulleys with much finer control.

Yes you can get cheaper NEMA 1 VFD’s and build your own enclosure
You may find them cheaper at other retailers and on Ebay direct from china.

Wayne Coe
http://www.waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/Motors___VFDs.html

VFD-
KBAC-27D

Motor
3 phase 220v 1.5 HP motor, TEFC, frame 56 or 56C,
RPM is up to you many are happy with a 1700 RPM running at double speed.
Make sure it has a footed base for the KMG and NWG, or a C flange face mount for Bader, Bee, Wilton and GIB styles.
I get them on ebay, even with paying $80 for shipping to Canada I save $$$ on a used motor.

The 1.5 HP combination is the most common, as reported by Rob Frink
It allows you to plug into any 110vac, 15 amp outlet.
A 2 HP motor requires a 220vac input.

There are cheaper VFD units like the TECO, but the only VFD I have found that will run a 1.5 HP motor on a 110v 15 amp input is the KBAC27D

It is NEMA4, sealed from metal dust that can burnout the unit.
It has good community and company support, manuals, hook-up diagrams, photos and settings on Rob Frink’s website.

I like the fact that I can buy it from a local distributor in Canada.

Travis W reports running a 2 HP on a 110v circuit, but I haven’t tried it.

Hookup is dead simple
http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/VS-setup.html


Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and use safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
Goggle "Ed Caffrey lung cancer"
Wearing a mask on the top of your head doesn't count.

The minimum I would consider are silicone half masks with a P100 Filter
3M 7500
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediaw...Ox_Uev7qe17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--&fn=CH7500FP.pdf

and North 7700
http://www.amazon.com/North-Safety-770030L-Silicone-Respirator/dp/B002C08YCW
http://www.amazon.com/North-7580P100-P100-Particulate-Cartridge/dp/B000UH6PSE/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b.

Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.
Prefilters can snap over the main filter for longer life.
There are 3 sizes, buy one in person at a safety supplier and get it fitted.

For beards, pick one of these
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II


Searching

This Google page searches BF and works well.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

Can I get rich making knives ?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...knife-making-worth-it?p=11980504#post11980504

V30 June 3, 2013
Darrin Sander is no longer HT blades.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1074496-I-m-no-longer-heat-treating-blades

 

[jawilder]

To be perfectly honest with you... I like it! It looks much better than my first knife for sure. Aside from what has been mentioned above, if you don't want to worry about annealing and rehardening it, you could draw the hardness back with a 2 hour soak in the kitchen oven at about 450 degrees. That would have made it a bit softer to grind.

Be careful, knifemaking is a very strong but that bites hard and is painfully expensive, but most of us think that it is very well worth it.

By the way, not to be over critical of your first knife, but it looks like you ruined the temper in this picture

I'm guessing that the steel turned all sorts of colors while you were grinding. Any change of color to a hardened blade is BAAAAD

 

[cbr900son]

Grats for giving it a try! it is addictive so be careful. Couple things tho.

1) watch the angles of your grinds. It well affect how sharp your knife can get.
2) read up on annealing and heat treating steel to get a general idea about it
3)Keep trying and make mor eknives and look for local makers who might be nice enough to give you a few starting pointers and maybe even show you a thing or two!

 

[easy bleeder]

Great looking first knife, how well does it cut and hold an edge? It looks better than my first one............

 

[kailand09]

Pretty sweet. I have access to a bench grinder, may try to see what I can do with it. I actually really like it (I haven't made a knife yet myself). I can attest to the reply by the Count, I have read every single thread so far on there and the "newb" info sticky. A wealth of information, can be very helpful.

 

[Mudbug007]

That looks pretty decent for a first knife! But like Jason said above, it looks like you may have ruined the temper. If the edges turned different colors while you were grinding, then you probably did. But so what? You turned out a pretty good looking first attempt! All of us started somewhere!

Now if you're really serious about making a knife, here's the best tutorial for beginners I've seen bar none. It shows you how to make a knife with basic hand tools. The only thing I would do different looking back is to use 1/8" 1084 from NJSteelBaron.com. The heat treating is simple and will work better with his method than the 01 he used (but you can still get a good knife using this method if 01 is all you have) Here's the link to the tutorial. How to Make a Knife.

Finally, if you're determined to make a knife from a file, take a look at how a Master does it... How To Make A Knife From A File. This is a multi part video series to make sure you watch them all.

 

[Fitzhugh]

You mentioned a wobbly wheel on your grinder. If you don't have one consider getting a wheel dresser - no more wobble. Unless it is a mounting problem. I got one for $10 or so online. It is horribly cheap looking - enough so I would never have bought it if I'd seen it in person first, but it made a useless wheel work great. It also makes it grind better. Others could tell you which to buy, I've only used the one.

I have a hand cranked grinder with a 4" wheel off ebay and have found the hard way I can still easily overheat edges, so it probably takes less than you think.

Thanks for posting the knife!

 

[Paul Brach]

If you keep pushing a wobbly wheel, bad things can happen. I had one break apart on me. Luckily only the small piece hit me in the chest. The big piece flew across the garage and dented the drywall an inch below the ceiling.

(website link removed - you're not allowed to link to your site at your current membership level)

 

[B.F.U]

Man, I wish people would have responded this way when I posted my "my first knife". I got some great tips, but definitely a different feel. I did a similarly too short of a grind. I also got some weird colors when I tempered, but someone said something like "heating colors don't mean a damn thing"?

 

[12345678910]

Man, I wish people would have responded this way when I posted my "my first knife". I got some great tips, but definitely a different feel. I did a similarly too short of a grind. I also got some weird colors when I tempered, but someone said something like "heating colors don't mean a damn thing"?

I said that.

I meant that you cannot accurately measure the tempering temperature by looking at the colour since skin oils or other contamination can cause it to be different colours.

But If you're grinding a file without wanting to heat treat it again and it turned blue, you overheated it.




Folks are sidestepping the crude prison shank appearance for the sake of encouraging growth and a better try next time.

 

[cbr900son]

I said that.

I meant that you cannot accurately measure the tempering temperature by looking at the colour since skin oils or other contamination can cause it to be different colours.

But If you're grinding a file without wanting to heat treat it again and it turned blue, you overheated it.




Folks are sidestepping the crude prison shank appearance for the sake of encouraging growth and a better try next time.

He is being truthful here. Id never put someone down who is willing to listen and learn and just truly enjoying it. We are not here to flame the first sub par knife somone makes but here to take that as where that person is now and help them move forward. If he made a nice hidden tang then we might be suggesting better fit and finish or a better mirror polish etc etc.

 

[Will Leavitt]

Anyone tough enough to finish their first knife should be tough enough to take constructive criticism..... You finished your first knife, draw draw draw and read read read....

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I have started to type a reply to this thread several times....and deleted it. I often get accused of being too blunt when speaking the obvious. However, since the subject has been brought up -

The knife is not any worse than many other first knives, and connorr is probably quite proud of it. However, it is very crude, and not make according to any conventional knife making methods. There is no need to critique the non-bevels and 45 degree edge. Suffice to say that it would be called a "prison shank" by any law officer who found you carrying it in California.

Connorr93 - Take the time to read up on knifemaking, and plan to make the next knife from a piece of annealed blade steel. Draw it up and post your plans here. You will get good advice, and often offers for help with things you need. I bet you will be amazed at what you can do with planning and advice.

Have fun, and please take my post as well meant advice, not a put down of you or your first knife.

 

[B.F.U]

I was extremely grateful for all the constructive criticism I got, including about the heat colors (I would quote everyone, but I have to use my phone and its a pain). I was not whining or anything, mostly wondering at the quite different tone of the replies to two first knives which I think had very similar issues (including the fact, which I now fully realize thanks to the criticism I received, that I had not read enough or used the right methods).

 

[B.F.U]

Also, I subscribed to this thread because of the great info given by 12345678910, which I will definitely for my next knife.