My first stone set purchase

J

JeremyLub

Joined
Feb 24, 2020
Messages
9
Greetings,

I'm ready to buy a stone set and welcome comments/feedback. After WAY too much time on youtube and such I feel like I know what I want, but welcome YAY or NEY from you find folks as much more experienced sharpeners than myself (which is fairly close to zilch).

I will be sharpening my own (and a few friends) kitchen (mostly) knives. Mine are currently mostly the better Wusthof/Henkel standard stuff but to-be-expanded into much better custom knives (maybe getting someone down the road at Carter Cutlery to make me something special for my birthday). I dont mind paying for quality and I love cooking so its time for a very good knife (or 3) to enter my kitchen.

Thinking of the following lineup
Shapton Glass 320 (hopefully only for fixing abused knives of friends)
Chosera 800 - 14um
Chosera 3000 - 4um (too big a jump?)
Kitayama 8000 (seems very well regarded and a great price for a polishing stone)

Is this a sensible progression? Am I falling far too deep into the pit for a beginner? For sure there are much better budget options (King KDS for $40 and be done) and Im paying $$$ for the (possibility of) the last 10%, but I don't mind what should be a MANY year investment.
 
Imo I would buy a 325 DMT and not use anything but that until you nail that. For kitchen use and general cutting chores it's all you need. Once you get that down then I would look further. If you decide at the end of the day to buy water stones then your 325 can be used to keep them flat. It's about $50 for the plate.
 
Buy a cheap chinese diamond stone or two

Cost about 10$ each on aliexpress or amazon

Or a harbor freight diamond stone

Another good way is one of the cheap amazon combo waterstones

And practice on cheaper knives till you get the technique right

Then buy whatever stones you want

Theres little point in spending a few hundred dollars in stones when what you need to develop is skill first

The double side cheap paddle strops on amazon or aliexpress for 5$ each will work fine as well
 
Those are all good points and I dont disagree, but if he knows he wants to do freehand sharpening, why not get good stones to begin with. What are the disadvantages of getting good stones? Not arguing , just curious.
 
Spending $$$ money and having most the stones sit unused

Also cheap diamond stones can be used to sharpen yard and wood tools you might not want to wear out $$$ stones on

If the OP insist on getting $$$ stones then just get one in the low- mid hundreds and a cheap strop

If you can get a knife shaving sharp off that then theres no reason to get any higher stones till you can
 
55EC827F-3868-49FE-AE53-287758699871.jpeg AB7DCB61-4FC8-4183-A2BC-C7C986D12926.jpeg BD21ED7E-64E8-4532-BCD0-2E81C13E7AEC.jpeg My first set of stones was a washita tri hone set. The stones come on a triangle and have a course stone a medium and fine stone. The stones sit in a wooden cradle.I think you can find 8 inch bench stone set under $50. They have served me well. I have augmented this set with a cheap paddle strop . I have recently added diamond bench hones as I have recently acquired a couple of knives in s35vn. I have also purchases a manticore for @FortyTwoBlades for some heavy reprofiling. If you are definitely going to freehand and want to buy knives with harder carbides then you may want to avoid the natural stones and buy diamond hones. In the pictures you can sorta see the cradle. That was before cleaning after 20 years of use. The others are post cleaning.
 
I appreciate this conversation. Overall I do not consider this a huge investment in what I hope will be a lot of sharpening happiness. $300 for a handful of stones is not nothing, but honestly 1/2 my justification is that I happen to be in Costa Rica right now and my crown fell off my tooth. Im going to get it fixed for 1/3 the cost of the US - saving me >>2X the cost of these stones. While it wasn't a budgeted expense, it is a reality of the bank account. So why not splurge and get some 'toys'. BUT - perhaps 4 stones is a lot of overkill.

I very much want to dive deep into the - dare I say - art of hand sharpening and ended up with this proposal.

I also don't like buying cheap intermediate stuff. There is too much cheap shit in this world, and while there is a use for it in some cases, what is the harm in buying something good if you have the intent of using it and the hope/intent of appreciating/utilizing its quality. As sickpuppy1 states - what is the harm? And this is a legitimate - I'm curious too - question. I do not think I will damage these high quality stones while I learn the craft. Is it too much? Perhaps. And maybe I should back off a bit. The 8000 I added because I stumbled across a sale for $50 so figured it could be fun to try and get that uber-polished edge once I hone (get it) some skills. And the 320 was to add enough to my cart to get free shipping on the 8000 (also at 20% off). Maybe just get the 800+3000 and add later if/when needed. Or maybe just a King KDS for 1/4 that price but still great and does all I need. Then I can pass it to a friend when I 'upgrade'.

I do appreciate the input and sanity checks.
 
Just get the king combo stone for $20 or so

Once your technique is down and you know what you want, then splurge

Like all endeavors the shelfs of many people here are full of knives and stones we have bought because we thought we wanted or needed em before we gained actual experience

Like anything else, less is more

A skilled sharpener can sharpen on almost anything

Skills not gear ...
 
For your Henkels/Whustof I'd stay away from diamonds and wouldn't bother with water stones. Finer, or keener, doesn't always mean better either.

Before diving into different and more expensive knives learn to get an edge on what you have. Learn the principles and get good at them. These fundamentals will essentially be the same later on no matter the steel or sharpening media so this is where I recommend you spend your time.

Course cuts. No need, especially at this stage to concern yourself with high grits and polished edges and such.

First, don't go below 8" stones.

I'd recommend...

- Universal Stone Holder
- Norton CJB83 Crystolon paired with a FB83 Fine India.
- Or a Norton Crystolon JB8

Go to your local grocery store and get a permanent marker (I prefer red) and in the pharmacy section grab a bottle of laxative grade mineral oil.

Some decent cardboard or leather belt can handle the stropping.

Done right, you should be able to obtain edges that shave arm hair off what I listed. That's an edge that will serve you quite well in the kitchen.

Get that down and then explore.
 
Unless you plan on getting knives with a lot of Vanadium, like S35VN, I don't recommend diamond stones.
While diamond stones can indeed sharpen any steel, they don't do well with the softer or simpler steels typically found in cutlery steels.
The stones you chose work fine, though I don't quite understand the mix of Shapton and Naniwa Pro (Chosera). They are quality stones though and no harm will come from that progression.
The jump from 800 to 3000 isn't too much. Depending on the edge you want, you'll just be polishing longer.
The Shapton 320 isn't great for repairs - you'd want something coarser for that. However it is good for setting a bevel or just quickly restablishing your edge.
 
Ourorboros said:
Unless you plan on getting knives with a lot of Vanadium, like S35VN, I don't recommend diamond stones.
While diamond stones can indeed sharpen any steel, they don't do well with the softer or simpler steels typically found in cutlery steels.
The stones you chose work fine, though I don't quite understand the mix of Shapton and Naniwa Pro (Chosera). They are quality stones though and no harm will come from that progression.
The jump from 800 to 3000 isn't too much. Depending on the edge you want, you'll just be polishing longer.
The Shapton 320 isn't great for repairs - you'd want something coarser for that. However it is good for setting a bevel or just quickly restablishing your edge.
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Thanks. The Shapton choice was based on a few reviews I read, and I don't intend on "repairs" but more redefining the edge on friends knives not sharpened for 3yrs. But I certainly would wait to use it until I have confidence in my skills so I guess I'll wait to buy until I build that confidence. My knives are 'pretty good' as I get them sharpened by pros as needed. I just want to learn to do this myself. So I guess I should re-hone my purchase to a good sharpen/polish set to learn. And something appropriate for the Henkel/Wustolf knives that I have. once I learn more I can decide what is needed for the better knives I have/get.
 
I would say go for it.
They are all quality stones on your list.

I started sharpening on Arks and old Norton stones and while these are also great stones Japanese water stones are a joy to work with.
They got me to lighten my touch and that took my sharpening to another level.

I suggest one of the CKTG diamond plates for flattening and the occasional chipped blade.
 
To add a wrinkle to this, an alternative combo I'm thinking of is going for soaking and getting the Suehiro Cerax 320, Cerax 1000 and Rika 5000. 1/2 the price of the Chosera counterparts but still highly regarded and I don't mind a few minutes to soak them.
 
Trying to complete a full progression out of the gate complicates things imo. Everyone was there at one point. Your knife isn't sharp enough so you think need a higher grit stone or medium. Which is false as the edge hasn't apexed fully or your bur needs to be removed. These lessons can be learned with one stone or plate. And believe me a 325 or so grit deburred is sharp enough to do most tasks easily. I'm not saying someone should stop there. But until your shaving arm hair with that 325 edge the higher grit won't help.
 
Jeremy, welcome to the Maintenance Forum. Get what you want and enjoy tinkering with them. Still, you'll need a coarse SiC stone to repair
edges and rebevel with. Something around 100 grit will be a good work horse stone in your sharpening arsenal. Otherwise it will take too long
to repair an edge on the stones you list. DM
 
JeremyLub said:
Thanks. The Shapton choice was based on a few reviews I read, and I don't intend on "repairs" but more redefining the edge on friends knives not sharpened for 3yrs.
Click to expand...

If you get knives that have been beaten to death on glass "cutting boards" you may want to start with something coarse, like a 150 grit sheet of "3M Pro Grade Precision with Cubitron II" wet/dry paper, or the Zandstra FOSS stone that HeavyHanded recommends.

I cannot recommend the Suehiro Cerax 320 as I find that stone too soft and too slow at the same time, compared to other options, at least the way I have tried to use it.
 
JeremyLub said:
To add a wrinkle to this, an alternative combo I'm thinking of is going for soaking and getting the Suehiro Cerax 320, Cerax 1000 and Rika 5000. 1/2 the price of the Chosera counterparts but still highly regarded and I don't mind a few minutes to soak them.
Click to expand...
That also works - your looking at quality stuff.
There isn't a real wrong answer with what you've chosen, it becomes largely a matter of taste. Different stones have different feels.
 
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