My first stone set purchase

The stones you have listed are good, I have the 800 and love it.

I’m not sure you need the Shapton or the 8000 initially. As others have said I’d swap out the shapton for a coarse DMT and then bin off the 8000 for a bit until you know what you want. The 3000 will be more than sufficient for kitchen knives and the DMT will give you optionality for future higher alloy steels. David’s call regarding a coarse SiC is also a good one
 
Mr.Wizard said:
If you get knives that have been beaten to death on glass "cutting boards" you may want to start with something coarse, like a 150 grit sheet of "3M Pro Grade Precision with Cubitron II" wet/dry paper, or the Zandstra FOSS stone that HeavyHanded recommends.

I cannot recommend the Suehiro Cerax 320 as I find that stone too soft and too slow at the same time, compared to other options, at least the way I have tried to use it.
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None of my knives have or will touch an glass board. I primarily use a nice huge thick end-grain hardwood board I had made. I like nice things and I treat them with respect. (Tho some days my wife might disagree).


Im a bit surprised by this - I saw the Cerax as pretty highly recommended and a bit harder, but I think the Shapton Pro is a better stone for harder knives and maybe lasts longer. But that Foss is the same price for a combo - I'm not opposed.

I hope to maintain my knives very well - and any that are 'grossly neglected' I would either wait until my skills develop or pay to have repaired. But all my current arsenal are in pretty good shape as I keep them sharpened by pros. I just want to take over that role, and have the ability to sharpen when needed.

So I expect I would spend the most time on the 800/1000. I might hold off on the higher grits until I need them - based on this thread.
 
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JeremyLub said:
None of my knives have or will touch an glass board.
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I didn't suppose so. Rather I thought of "friends knives not sharpened for 3yrs." After I learned to sharpen using an Edge Pro I thought I'd try to make it a paying hobby and I was appalled at the condition of knives people wanted me to sharpen. A coarse hand file helped a lot in some cases but I really needed power tools which I didn't have the space for so I gave up the idea.

JeremyLub said:
Im a bit surprised by this - I saw the Cerax as pretty highly recommended and a bit harder, but I think the Shapton Pro is a better stone for harder knives and maybe lasts longer. But that Foss is the same price for a combo - I'm not opposed.
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I was surprised too. It's certainly possible it's just user error on my part, but in my hands it doesn't seem to work well for either bevel setting or mild thinning. In both cases I get too much wear on the stone for the amount of work accomplished, wasting both the stone itself and my time flattening it. This typically indicates one is using too much pressure for the bond strength but that's strange because in the case of thinning the large contact area should assure low pressure.
 
Mr.Wizard said:
I didn't suppose so. Rather I thought of "friends knives not sharpened for 3yrs." After I learned to sharpen using an Edge Pro I thought I'd try to make it a paying hobby and I was appalled at the condition of knives people wanted me to sharpen. A coarse hand file helped a lot in some cases but I really needed power tools which I didn't have the space for so I gave up the idea.



I was surprised too. It's certainly possible it's just user error on my part, but in my hands it doesn't seem to work well for either bevel setting or mild thinning. In both cases I get too much wear on the stone for the amount of work accomplished, wasting both the stone itself and my time flattening it. This typically indicates one is using too much pressure for the bond strength but that's strange because in the case of thinning the large contact area should assure low pressure.
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Yes - the 'friends knives' would be the case. or if I chipped something. Or fixing my ice climbing picks... which is something I just thought of. I would generally use a file for this because the angles are too acute to get a stone in, but for the outer edge it might work. But offering to help friends will be a bit down the road. That Foss does look like a good way to get a quality combo and kill both birds.

I am CONSTANTLY appalled by friends knives. I am very often away from my knives. For the past 3.5yrs my wife and I have been 'homeless' - traveling the world in search of a new home. As such we are in airbnbs or long term rentals and such. When in the US I sometimes take a bin of my kitchen, including 2 knives. But for the last month I have been housesitting in Costa Rica with the most horrific knives I've used in years. I did find an 'Original Silicar K 220' stone in the garage (the homeowner is German) so Im going to take a crack at sharpening his $10 drugstore knives.

Honestly, a partial impetus for some of my selections is the sale at mtckitchen.com. 20% off but need $100 for free shipping (otherwise savings wiped). It's not a huge factor but since they stock most of my top choices, why not. That said they don't have everything...
 
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for seriously damaged or neglected knives some kind of angled sharpener will help someone who is new IMO

its not that one cant totally rebevel freehand, its just that for the beginner (and even non beginners) its a total pain to keep those bevels consistent when grinding them in from the start

After the initial bevel is done, it get much easier

It could be a sharpmaker with very low grit, some guided system or even flat stones taped to angled wooden block use Pythagoras

Personally i think very low grit diamonds workbest for this

Basically even off 100 grit diamond it hould be close to shaving sharp with the bevel established

Theres many ways to skin a cat but they all go MEOW at the end ...
 
JeremyLub said:
None of my knives have or will touch an glass board. I primarily use a nice huge thick end-grain hardwood board I had made. I like nice things and I treat them with respect. (Tho some days my wife might disagree).


Im a bit surprised by this - I saw the Cerax as pretty highly recommended and a bit harder, but I think the Shapton Pro is a better stone for harder knives and maybe lasts longer. But that Foss is the same price for a combo - I'm not opposed.

I hope to maintain my knives very well - and any that are 'grossly neglected' I would either wait until my skills develop or pay to have repaired. But all my current arsenal are in pretty good shape as I keep them sharpened by pros. I just want to take over that role, and have the ability to sharpen when needed.

So I expect I would spend the most time on the 800/1000. I might hold off on the higher grits until I need them - based on this thread.
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The Foss is a good fit for coarse and low/medium, about a 400 grit Japanese.
I have the Shapton Pro 1, 5, and 8k and are my least favorite waterstones.
The Juuma 800 and 2k are really nice stones. There are so many out there I can't give 100% recommendations. The Norton Jum3 is a great all purpose stone.

The Norton waterstones are good, Suzuki ya house stones are fantastic if a bit pricey.

Ultimately you could get the 140 Atoma and a 1k and 8k of any of the better waterstones. A stone at 400 and a 2-5k helpful but not necessary.

The issue with waterstones is they are all a little different and different people will have favorites based on how they use them. Oil stones and diamonds are more straightforward.
 
HeavyHanded said:
Ultimately you could get the 140 Atoma and a 1k and 8k of any of the better waterstones. A stone at 400 and a 2-5k helpful but not necessary.
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The 140 Atoma vs the 400? My brother (who also is getting into this and just replaces his Choseras with Shapton Glass - but he's into tools while I'm into knives) recommended the 140 as well. Or both. But he has yet to sharpen - just getting set up.

I do base this 140/400 on this video... Im sure a lot of people have differing views of Burrfection.

I read the 140 would scratch the finer stones, but the more I read the more I see the using the 140 is very standard practice, and just use a Nagura stone or a courser plate to smooth it out. I dont expect the high-grit to need much anyway.

Based on todays learnings (and your very helpful advise) I'm leaning towards the Atoma XXX, Cerax 1000 and Kitayama 8000 and later adding a Rika 5000. Maybe a Nagura stone (Suehiro 1000 or 5000) for cleaning up between/after flattening? And maybe using the 140 for repairs or initial work is a bit scary - so adding a 320 (prob Cerax but maybe Shapton Glass) cause I know I'm gonna be curious.
 
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JeremyLub said:
The 140 Atoma vs the 400? My brother (who also is getting into this and just replaces his Choseras with Shapton Glass - but he's into tools while I'm into knives) recommended the 140 as well. Or both. But he has yet to sharpen - just getting set up.

I do base this 140/400 on this video... Im sure a lot of people have differing views of Burrfection.

I read the 140 would scratch the finer stones, but the more I read the more I see the using the 140 is very standard practice, and just use a Nagura stone or a courser plate to smooth it out. I dont expect the high-grit to need much anyway.

Based on todays learnings (and your very helpful advise) I'm leaning towards the Atoma XXX, Cerax 1000 and Kitayama 8000 and later adding a Rika 5000. Maybe a Nagura stone (Suehiro 1000 or 5000) for cleaning up between/after flattening? And maybe using the 140 for repairs or initial work is a bit scary - so adding a 320 (prob Cerax but maybe Shapton Glass) cause I know I'm gonna be curious.
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Ultimately you'll want a very coarse stone for repairs and resetting bevels. This is going to be your most important stone.

2nd most important will be whatever your favorite finishing stone is. For me this is the Suehiro Rika G8. For a coarse stone the DMT XC, Atoma 140, Foss, coarse side of a Crystalon stone....

Once you get used to slamming out progressions, that 140 will not be very intimidating.

Stone selection is simple coarse/medium/fine and you can add stones between these, most of the time they won't be needed unless aesthetics become important.
 
HeavyHanded said:
Ultimately you'll want a very coarse stone for repairs and resetting bevels. This is going to be your most important stone.
2nd most important will be whatever your favorite finishing stone is. For me this is the Suehiro Rika G8. For a coarse stone the DMT XC, Atoma 140, Foss, coarse side of a Crystalon stone....Once you get used to slamming out progressions, that 140 will not be very intimidating.
Stone selection is simple coarse/medium/fine and you can add stones between these, most of the time they won't be needed unless aesthetics become important.
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Exactly. Most new to sharpening will load up on the fine end. Didn't you use the Foss stone on ice skates? DM
 
Well, thanks. I'm sure it was by accident that something I said actually worked. :) You did a good job.
I enjoy using my washita on a knife or ax. Mostly an ax. DM
 
David Martin said:
Exactly. Most new to sharpening will load up on the fine end. Didn't you use the Foss stone on ice skates? DM
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Its marketed as a speed skate stone, but so are a bunch of other very good bench stones - big versions of the India stone and DMT duosharps are common.

I haven't laced up speedskates since I was about 10 or 11, and those skates were antiques at the time! Winters have gotten too mild to reliably do any pond or creek skating around here, but used to skate long distances over frozen corn fields if they flooded just right - have to watch out for the fence lines.
 
OP, you have selected some awesome stones that will work fantastically for you.

My own opinion on your collection:

Praise Shapton Glass, amen.

Choseras will craze, but it isn’t an issue, despite how greatly it is worried about by some. I have never experienced any actually crumbling or stone weakness, nor any deep faultlines, etc. They feel excellent and work fast. The BMW M series of waterstones, them.

The Kitty is DOPE. It’s like sharpening on ice cream. I love it. A more demanding stone that will test your stroke consistency and pressure control, and a proportionally rewarding and entertaining stone to work with. And to put it eloquently, the edge you achieve will make you shit yourself.

So long as you have a way to flat those badboys, you’re in for a hella good time.
Just make sure you post pics when you get them!
 
Beansandcarrots said:
OP, you have selected some awesome stones that will work fantastically for you.

So long as you have a way to flat those badboys, you’re in for a hella good time.
Just make sure you post pics when you get them!
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I ordered the Atoma 140, Cerax 320, Cerax 1000 and Kitayama 8000. Will add the Rika 5000 one day. I would have done the Shapton Glass 320 but figured I'd stay in the Suehiro line more - for no great reason. My brother has all S Glass, so maybe one day I'll get to test them out (he lives 600mi away and our paths don't cross often, but one day). I almost regret not getting it already - I'd like to try them out. But Im sure someone around me has them and I'll meet them one day.

Thanks all for your help and advise. I'm looking froward to sharper days.
I'm also switching to a DE Safety razor, so I have those to play with as well.
 
Mr. Wizard said, "After I learned to sharpen using an Edge Pro I thought I'd try to make it a paying hobby and I was appalled at the condition of knives people wanted me to sharpen."

I did the same thing. I bought the basics first, and then my friends would drop by. I started to sharpen at Gander Mountain, and it was a nice job for retirement, and my wife liked the cash. Unfortunately, now my stuff is set up "permanently" and the hobby I sought became a job. I would tell very few people about your skill or you'll never be able
to take a nap again!
upload_2020-3-3_7-14-51.jpeg
 
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