My first two knives

Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Messages
2
I definately need some advice, (aside from get a better bench sander, yes I do use the 4x36 harbor freight one. I will be getting better one as soon as I can feel free to give some reasonable recommendations) the first one is red oak with a stain and the larger one was my second where I made a Micita handle which I was not impressed with ( probably my fault, I used a felt instead of regular fabric because it's all I had and was pourus and dark. I'm wanting to make more and do better all advice is accepted. These are 1095 carbon steel.

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Frst, Welcome to Shop Talk. Fill out the info in your profile so we know a bit about you and where you are. ( age, location, hobbies, occupation, etc.)

Congrats on finishing your first two knives. Keep them for life, and look at them to see how you progress in the future. Overall, they aren't bad at all for a first pair of knives.

There are some issues on them, as you know.
1) The finishing has a long way to go. You should have sanded them a lot more before assembling the handles. Hand sand to above 400 grit and get all the scratches out before moving on the assembly.
2) You burned the rivets by grinding them down on the grinder after glue up. File them down, and don't let them get hot in later handle shaping on the grinder. Hand sanding the handle is a good way to get it smooth. All divots and scratches should be sanded out before any finish is applied.
3) Rivet placement is off. It should be symmetrical with the handle.
4) You can't make Micarta at home. It is a phenolic based industrial product. Making MyCarta is fun for some people, but rarely gives a good product unless you use expensive resins.
5) The choil on the second knife is a bit too deep. It only needs to be a semi-circle at most.

Take your time and don't rush it. If it take a couple weeks to sand all the scratches out and get the handle smooth, it will be time well invested.


Looking forward to seeing more .
 
I'm not going to lie, I just knew I was going to get a lot of snack or rude comments about the terrible job. But I didn't and I thank you for your polite advice. It's a good start here on this forum. I'm sure you. Can tell the first one uploaded was my first made. The rivets where a dead give away ( I invested in a cheap drill press before the second one) but they also got hot because I grinded them down. I agree on the finishing. Also any advice on getting a better edge and bevel on the blade? That's one of my largest problems I think along with needing to do more all around hand sanding.
 
File the bevels by hand if needed, to get things straight and flat. Take your time on the belt grinder. The one you are using is probably a bit fast and scarry. Using a grinding magnet to hold the blade may help with control.

Try this order of shaping:
1) Draw the blade on paper. Redraw it until it looks good to you. Post the drawing here in Shop Talk for suggestions and improvements. You may not see something that is obvious to a seasoned maker. Pay special attention to the rivet holes and their placement. Avoid any feature that goes to excess. Deep finger grooves, extended bird's head butts, fat palm swells, deep choils, etc. A little goes a long way in design and attractiveness. ( see note below)

2) Cut the profile out in steel. Smooth the edges and look at it compared to the drawing. Make any adjustments before you start the bevels.

3) Grind in the distal taper first. Distal taper is a gradual thinning of the blade as it moves toward the tip. Some taper from the ricasso to the tip, and others from the butt to the tip. In the beginning, it is better to taper from the ricasso to the tip and leave the tang flat. The distal taper makes a knife feel, handle, and cut better.

4) Lay out the bevels and grind them in slowly. It is always easier to remove a little more metal. You can't put any back on. A full flat grind is almost always the best grind to do. In the beginning, it should be the only grind you do. Using a file and starting the bevels by hand is a good way to get the feel of shaping them.

5) Sand up the grits and remove each prior steps scratches before moving to the next grit or step. Hand sanding with the paper wrapped around a block of very hard wood or metal is a good way to get flat and smooth bevels.

6) Don't rush the process. Finish each step fully before moving on. Take as long as it takes, and enjoy yourself. Don't start the handle until the blade is finished all except sharpening. Tape up the blade to keep the surface clean and prevent scratching in the handle work.

7) Simple is usually better in the beginning. A simple drop point hunter ( like you did) is far easier to learn on than a bowie. Same for handle materials. Use simple to finish materials. Commercial canvas or linen Micarta is a good choice, as it needs no special finishing beyond sanding to 800-1000 grit. Woods like cocobolo, and other hard and oily woods are also good choices, as they just need sanding and hand buffing with a soft cloth.

8) When doing the handle, shape and sand the front part at the ricasso before assembly. You can't work on that area without damaging the blade after assembly.


Note:
In design, the tendency is to throw the entire box of tricks in to get the "max effect". The truth is the opposite. A subtle accent will stand out far more than a pile of accents all fighting each other. Take a woman's shape and looks. A normal girl next door type with just a bit of figure and pleasant facial features may be far more attractive than a 48DD stripper with two-tone hair and 6" heels. There really can be too much of a good thing.

Simple things, like just a tiny bit of curve to the spine from butt to tip make a stiff knife look fluid. Same for a small choil or a small amount of palm swell. The best guide rule for beginners is, "If it sticks out...take it out." Any feature that immediately catches your eye is probably over done.
 
For sure listen to Stacy!

Take the blade off of the platen before the tip "slips" off the back. One slip and there goes your tip!

Also consider a bubble jig. http://bubblejig.com

I found it a great "teacher" in the beginning for developing muscle memory to hold a consistent bevel angle.

I don't use it anymore for that, but I still use it for most of final sharpening and I think I'll use it for beveling clips as well.
 
Once again Stacy you have given a thoughtful and detail analysis.



T3sters,

Welcome to the community. It's good to get your hands dirty. You are a young guy and probably have a lot of energy which is good. You're going to need it. One thing young guys don't always have is patience. If you don't have that, find it. It is invaluable. The techniques to make knives can be learned by anyone willing to do the work. Knives are deceptively hard to make well. They are more than just a sharp piece of metal. They are tools but they are also art. They are an expression of the passion and dedication of the artist to his craft. Like many forms of art, the details are what separate the men from the boys (figuratively speaking). When you start your journey down this knifemaking road you must prepare yourself mentally for the work involved. A lot of it is very tedious and time-consuming. You must have patience and keep your eye on the vision you have for that knife. Don't cut corners. The thought "it's good enough" has no place in your shop. It's right or it's not finished. To raise your work to the level of art will take time but you have to start with a passion for the subject. Spend a lot of time reading about knives. Spend a lot of time looking at and studying great knives. I don't mean knife pictures on Google. Study the works of the earlier masters like Moran, Loveless, Scagel, Randall, and many others. Look at modern masters, many of whom post their works on this site. Get your eye familiar with what Stacy talked about how often simpler is better. Play with your designs so that the lines are as beautiful and elegant as possible. Make your dimensions and proportions appealing to the eye and comfortable in the hand. You will hear terms like the "flow" of the knife. This refers to how the parts of the knife are designed and assembled so that no feature or part of the knife is out of balance or proportion. The knife shouldn't look stiff or blocky. Your eye should sweep across the finished knife without being drawn sharply to a feature that catches your attention in a negative way. Stacy has mentioned a lot of the important points. Like he said, post your progress here so that people can help steer you in the right direction. One thing I might mention about your knives is that the tips are soft. I think a knife should have a pointy tip. One thing you can do to avoid the tendency to accidentally grind or sand off the tip is to leave extra material there. Leave some sacrificial material above where you want the tip to be. Then after your bevels are done go back and take down the extra material resulting in a point. Below are some videos that will help you.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9iNDRwwBQQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I4x4QLpfnk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_jMNsjVc-s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvNTQ-CJYqQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra37S7cp0y0
 
Hey T3ster...I think it is neat that you have started knives. Like Stacey said, keep them for life and look at how your subsequent knives change over the years. I'm just a beginner myself but one of my favorite sayings in life is "In praise of slow." It's the process not the product that will make the difference.

I am a school teacher but I make native american flutes and drums as a hobby. Just started with a couple knives in the last 2 years. Taking it slow and working your way along makes a giant difference. I hand carve the totems on my flutes. I put a couple in my pocket and carry a folding carving knife. When I have a few minutes at lunch or am visiting, or watching tv(bone of contention with my wife of 27yrs because she doesn't like me carving in the house) I carve a bit on them. Keep getting them out and chipping away over the course of a week to finish 3 or so. Look em over, a bit here, there, put away, do it again until they are done. I did the same thing with my knives. Taped the blade, put my scales on and actually carved the handles by hand with my carving knife. A bit at a time, putting away, feeling them until they fit my hand how I wanted. About a week of hand carving, filing and sanding. I actually put the finish on my first knife and then started carving the handle again about a month later because I wanted it to feel different. Finished it again, then decided to sand the finish off and go with a different one. Basically my message is keep plugging away and take your time. You will get some great results.

The cool thing when you make something yourself like you have done is that it was created by you and nobody in the world has one like yours. You are connected to it. It's something to be proud of, show others, and know that you are part of a small group of people who have done something like this. Maybe a 1%er! Keep at it.
Randy Bates
 
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