My first W1 blade...

Phillip Patton

Phillip Patton

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
5,311
Well, I said I would let you all know how it went. Here's how it went: TINKLE, TINKLE, CRAAAAACK. In other words, it cracked. :( In fact, the hardened portion almost sheared away completely from the soft part. (I clay coated the back.)
i think I know what I did wrong, though. I annealed it at too high a temp, (causing the grain to coarsen, I think) I think I soaked it longer than needed, (11 minutes, at 1425 degrees) and I quenched it in water. (bad idea) It got hard though...
Does anyone see anything else I did wrong?
I've tried to use the search feature, but nothing on w1 comes up.
 
W1 is a great knife steel. Water is a bad idea, I use oil. W1 in a thin cross section will crack in water, if it's a bit thicker you can get away with a quick in and out water quench but it is still risky. W1 gets plenty hard in oil and I get some very nice hamons. Too high heat can be bad also but your soak time should not have caused any problems although a bit long in IMO.

Why water ? Most of the makers getting incredible hamons use oil with no cracked blades.:)
 
mrstenoien said:
isnt W1 water quench??
Click to expand...
W1 is considered a water quench steel but only in large cross sections, not thin knife blades. Thin edge, thick spine in water will usually end with cracks. If you want to water quench then 1050 is a good choice.
 
I was using water because the seal on my oil quench tank busted and I haven't gotten around to fixing it...
Would a slow oil work, or does it have to be fast? While I was forging this blade, I quenched it in Shell Voluta H201, which is very similar to texaco type A, (slow oil) and then tested it with a file. It did get hard, but it may not have gotten hard very deep. What kind of oil do you guys use for W1?
 
Use the water to thin your Bourbon.Use oil to quench your blades.
The "W" fools a lot of new smiths.Those designations are for the metals industry,and are not geared for knives.Look at the soak times and cooling times on some charts, ie.,"soak for 4-6 hours and cool at 50 degrees/hr". They often refer to huge castings and machined parts.Blade metallurgy is a different animal.
Stacy
 
I use a fast unknow quench oil that works very good, it was given to me years ago. I just got some Parks #50 but have only used it a couple times, it seems very fast.
 
Don't use water for anything. Oil only. Have it warm, but not
too hot. If quenching series of blades in sequence, in same pan
of oil, watch the temp, don't let it get too hot, as it will reduce
as-quenched hardness. And it will eventrually flare up.

The only time I'd use water is when I making a scriber out
of W1 rod, on its tip.
 
I have no personal experience with this, but I've read plenty of things about quenching in water. Virtually no one (again, just from what I've read) quenches steel in plain water. There is always salt added (i.e. brine).

I don't know if you tried this with brine, or whether the people commenting about water being bad are commenting on water or brine. But if you did quench in just water, and you want to try water again, try making a water/salt solution to quench in.

There are a couple other things like making sure there are no burrs, tempering immediately, using lukewarm water, etc. If you want, here are some sites I bookmarked about this stuff:

http://www.dfoggknives.com/waterhardening.htm (lots of information about how quenching in water is not like quenching in oil, and what to do differently)
http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3285 (brine discussion is halfway down the thread)

Hope this helps...
 
I decided to turn this (busted) blade into an experiment. It had pretty coarse grain, so I wanted to see if quenching it again would have any effect on grain size. So I heated it in my forge and quenched it in oil, then broke it. The grain was significantly finer and I had to use a cheater bar to break it. Quenched and broke again and couldn't tell a further difference in grain size. Quenched again, this time in water. No cracking this time, but it was easier to break. This blade is history, but I forged another one today, and I hope to have it finished this week.
 
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