My first "ZT" and my first ZT...counterfeit blades and clones

JK Knives said:
I got my ZT from Brad last year, good guy to deal with, and he's local.
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If the average non knife nut heard "GOT MY ZT FROM BRAD" they might wonder what kind of std that was, and how contagious is it?

And as far as being Local, did you mean LOCO?
 
Anyone use a watchmaker or jeweler 10X loupe and look close at a real ZT logo and KAI markings on the blade?
Do so and post what you see.
How easy is that fine laser etching to reproduce?
Is the suggestion the true truth detector?
 
Here's a stupid question that I think I may know the answer to, but asking anyway.

Who's Brad?
 
So, at the risk of getting flamed - I intentionally purchased a Spyderco Paramilitary 2 from a Chinese site a few months ago. I wanted to get one for $22 to see if I like the size, shape, heft, etc of the overall design before I made the investment of getting a real one. I was expecting a mediocre knife at best...one that would join my collection of blades that I rotate through for EDC and end up abusing on the jobsite and not caring if they get trashed or lost. Several observations - the clone is a ridiculously good knife. It's the sharpest new blade I've ever gotten and has so far held its edge very well. The logos are all stamped in it, though I haven't taken it apart to see if the manufacture date is near the pivot, but I'm guessing they have that covered as well since I can see some glimpses of numbers through the holes in the handle for the clip. The one thing that is not correct as far as I can tell are some slightly different radiusing on the blade itself and the fact that only one of the four sets of holes for the clip are actually tapped. This limits me to carrying the knife tip up-not a big deal, but different than how I usually like to carry a folder. The blade flips open smoothly and doesn't have any play to speak of.

That being said, I found out that I don't like to EDC this knife...Spyderco's design is quality and reproduces well in a $22 version, but overall, the design isn't for me. Its too thick overall and the thumb hole makes the overall package too wide for me to be able to easily access the other things in my pocket in some of my pants. I'm glad that I found this out and got a pretty decent knife without spending over $120. I operate under the theory that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. The knock-off makers have taken a popular and quality design and are reproducing it because it works and it sells. The only real fault in the process in my eyes are the use of the logos--that should be stopped. If this was hanging on a shelf in a store for this price and just said "Bad-ass knife" on the package, looked just like the PM2 and was made in the US, would we all hate it so much? I dunno.
 
mqqn said:
Good on you for taking the clone back, and congrats on your ZT!

Brad is a dealer now, just FYI -

I have a 620, and that knife has bitten me more than any other; it came VERY sharp, and the wave is tricky until you get used to it.

It is well built and a looker - enjoy!

best

mqqn
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Yes, mine is very sharp as well. It might be the sharpest factory edge that I've ever had on a folder.
 
cfink828 said:
So, at the risk of getting flamed - I intentionally purchased a Spyderco Paramilitary 2 from a Chinese site a few months ago. I wanted to get one for $22 to see if I like the size, shape, heft, etc of the overall design before I made the investment of getting a real one. I was expecting a mediocre knife at best...one that would join my collection of blades that I rotate through for EDC and end up abusing on the jobsite and not caring if they get trashed or lost. Several observations - the clone is a ridiculously good knife. It's the sharpest new blade I've ever gotten and has so far held its edge very well. The logos are all stamped in it, though I haven't taken it apart to see if the manufacture date is near the pivot, but I'm guessing they have that covered as well since I can see some glimpses of numbers through the holes in the handle for the clip. The one thing that is not correct as far as I can tell are some slightly different radiusing on the blade itself and the fact that only one of the four sets of holes for the clip are actually tapped. This limits me to carrying the knife tip up-not a big deal, but different than how I usually like to carry a folder. The blade flips open smoothly and doesn't have any play to speak of.

That being said, I found out that I don't like to EDC this knife...Spyderco's design is quality and reproduces well in a $22 version, but overall, the design isn't for me. Its too thick overall and the thumb hole makes the overall package too wide for me to be able to easily access the other things in my pocket in some of my pants. I'm glad that I found this out and got a pretty decent knife without spending over $120. I operate under the theory that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. The knock-off makers have taken a popular and quality design and are reproducing it because it works and it sells. The only real fault in the process in my eyes are the use of the logos--that should be stopped. If this was hanging on a shelf in a store for this price and just said "Bad-ass knife" on the package, looked just like the PM2 and was made in the US, would we all hate it so much? I dunno.
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I think people have different opinions on these knock-off blades that probably range from one extreme to the other. To me, the use of logos, trademarked designs or design elements (such as the Spyderco hole) is both illegal and wrong. The biggest problem I have is how easy it is for someone to resell these to unsuspecting buyers as the real thing. While I too was impressed with the "quality", questions regarding what type of steel is actually used in the blade, how reliable is the lock, etc. are enough to steer me away. To be honest, I would likely buy an MTech or Smith & Wesson as a beater before I would buy a fake Spyderco or ZT.

To each his own though and it sounds like you used it as a way to evaluate the basic design of the knife without dropping the full ticket price to find out it wasn't for you. You bought it with the full knowledge of what it was and what it was not.
 
cfink828 said:
So, at the risk of getting flamed - If this was hanging on a shelf in a store for this price and just said "Bad-ass knife" on the package, looked just like the PM2 and was made in the US, would we all hate it so much? I dunno.
Click to expand...

Hang onto your hat, 'cuz the flames will be coming forthwith.

The catch is where the item is sold.
Go to China and buy a clone, and you've technically done nothing wrong on the legal end of things (morally? not so much, but the laws we're talking about aren't morality laws).
China does not have to adhere to our laws.

Sell a true clone here, and you've broken laws.
Sell an homage here and things are murky.

Buy a clone in China and have it shipped here, even more murky.
Buy an homage in China and have it shipped here, visibility reduced to zero.
 
I have a feeling that the big manufacturers are not flattered by the imitation of clones. :confused: That being said, imitation is one that uses a "similar" look and feel, without actually using patents and trademarks. But those who make a "clone" that is meant to impersonate the original right down to names, logos, and documentation is committing a criminal act. And those that knowingly buy clones are accessory to the crime. Just sayin'. ;) Glad the OP took it back when discovered.
 
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