Regarding the huge fuller, were it not for that fuller, this knife might be un-usably, ridiculously heavy. It's heavy enough as it is. They almost had to put in that fuller to make it somewhat practical. For anyone who wants this knife without a fuller, I'd like to see their arms, they must have 24 inch arms!
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
My Frontier Bowie
- Thread starter BubbaGump
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2013
- Messages
- 3,989
I wish cold steel had done a thicker fuller on their 1917 Cutlass. What is currently done is very thin and does little for weight reduction or styling. But with their Frontier Bowie... It definitely must have reduced a fair amount of weight... And as for aesthetics, it surely added greatly to it. Btw, the more I"ve inspected both of my 1917 Bowies, and my 1917 Cutlass, the more I think that Windlass Steelcrafts used the machining from barstock method for producing them (neither likely having been produced by milling from forgings). It's just my guess and observations ☺
Last edited:
Well, as you know the 1917 Cutlass is a reproduction item. I believe it is a reproduction of a M1941 Dutch Klewang, which was a re-issue of the M1911 Dutch Klewang upon which the M1917 US Cutlass was based. Because the M1941 was purchased and used by the US Navy, it is sometimes confused as a US issue item. In any event, Cold Steel's 1917 model is a reproduction, and as such it doesn't make sense to alter the design. However, their "Hybrid Cutlass" is a perfect candidate for further improvement on the cutlass design. Two ways they improved the Hybrid Cutlass were to lengthen the grip, and to improve hand protection with a full steel cup guard perforated for light weight (and borrowed from the Austrian saber, lending to the "hybrid" designation). The 1917 Saber is also an extension of this design, with a saber-length blade. I have already suggested a "Boucan" with an 18" or shorter blade, but it's possible there is room for improvement with other aspects of the blade such as the fuller. Blade design is tricky though, which is why the US decided to simply copy the proven Dutch design. A Cutlass should be blade-heavy as it is a chopping, slashing, and cutting blade intended for combat and not just a thrusting blade for dueling like the epee, dueling sword, small sword, and rapier. Considering this, not only is the balance due to the center of mass critical, but also the distribution of mass which affects the moment of inertia when various nodes are struck. I understand there are both rotational impact nodes, and harmonic nodes which determine force vectors and levels of shock in the handle when striking. I'm confident these things were considered in the design of the Dutch Klewang which came at the pinnacle of saber and cutlass design. They should be considered in Bowie design. There's evidence that Cold Steel considered these things in the design of the Natchez Bowie, and that it resulted in the cable-tang and the pommel weight, but I have not confirmed this or that it wasn't simply to move the balance point forward. It certainly looks like there's more going on there that Cold Steel has only offered simplified explanations for such as "improving the balance and reducing shock." If they haven't offered a more technical explanation, maybe it is because they were winging it.
Last edited:
That was my thought when first handling the knife. It is heavy enough as it comes in the box.
From what I read regarding reviews and opinions of Bowie knives on the net, there are often either complaints about a particular model being too heavy/light or not suitable for hard field and bushcraft use. The 'original' bowie obviously was a fighting knife. It wasn't designed to be anything else. In the modern era, with a zillion different types of bowies available, I think people have an idea in their mind of what a bowie should be and when they find something that doesn't meet this expectation, they don't classify it as a bowie. There are big ones, small ones, heavy, fat, thin, wide, etc...I don't think there is any standard definition.
I just think of a Bowie as a knife having a relatively large blade with an aggressive clip point and tip. How heavy or light it is just depends on the blade specs and geometry. There are enough out there that people can find one with the specs that meets their needs. If they want a Bowie as a fighting knife, they obviously don't want a model that's big, fat, and heavy. This knife probably won't be the number one choice for those people. In person, it is big enough and looks intimidating enough, however, that just pulling it out might make someone think twice about doing whatever it is they had in mind
You would probably tire pretty quickly if you actually had to use it in a real knife fight, though. But I have never been in such a fight and don't think I ever would be. Here in the states, I can't think of many scenarios where someone would actually need to fight someone with a large bowie anymore than I would think of someone fighting someone with a sword. It's not something you are going to be varying around with you on the streets. I just got it because I like the looks and it is an impressive piece of steel. In the modern era, a Bowie is not an EDC blade and hardly anyone would ever find themselves in a situation where they would actually call on it for self defense, although I am sure it has happened perhaps for home invasions or something of that nature.
I just think of a Bowie as a knife having a relatively large blade with an aggressive clip point and tip. How heavy or light it is just depends on the blade specs and geometry. There are enough out there that people can find one with the specs that meets their needs. If they want a Bowie as a fighting knife, they obviously don't want a model that's big, fat, and heavy. This knife probably won't be the number one choice for those people. In person, it is big enough and looks intimidating enough, however, that just pulling it out might make someone think twice about doing whatever it is they had in mind
You would probably tire pretty quickly if you actually had to use it in a real knife fight, though. But I have never been in such a fight and don't think I ever would be. Here in the states, I can't think of many scenarios where someone would actually need to fight someone with a large bowie anymore than I would think of someone fighting someone with a sword. It's not something you are going to be varying around with you on the streets. I just got it because I like the looks and it is an impressive piece of steel. In the modern era, a Bowie is not an EDC blade and hardly anyone would ever find themselves in a situation where they would actually call on it for self defense, although I am sure it has happened perhaps for home invasions or something of that nature.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2013
- Messages
- 3,989
The CS 1917 Cutlass is certainly a closer repro of a Dutch Klewang sword than the actual Navy 1917 Cutlass (which itself is based on the Dutch Klewang). in either case, the CS 1917 Cutlass is typically a bit heavier than both the Klewang or the Navy 1917.
Here is a diagram showing a US made Klewang made for the Dutch (notice the wider fuller than what one finds on the CS 1917 Cutlass)...
And here is a pic of a US Navy 1917 Cutlass (notice the wider fuller on this as well)...
And fuller on the the Cold Steel variant...
Based on the photo below of a US made Milsco Dutch Klewang, there is no doubt in my mind that Cold Steel would have been closer to the mark by labeling their sword as a repro of the Milsco Klewang. Even that would not have been exactly correct, but much closer to what it mostly resembles.
Here is a diagram showing a US made Klewang made for the Dutch (notice the wider fuller than what one finds on the CS 1917 Cutlass)...
And here is a pic of a US Navy 1917 Cutlass (notice the wider fuller on this as well)...
And fuller on the the Cold Steel variant...
Based on the photo below of a US made Milsco Dutch Klewang, there is no doubt in my mind that Cold Steel would have been closer to the mark by labeling their sword as a repro of the Milsco Klewang. Even that would not have been exactly correct, but much closer to what it mostly resembles.
Last edited:
While most of what you write makes perfect sense, I'm not willing to dismiss large Bowie knives for EDC with self-defense in mind. One aspect of the historical (19th century) Bowie appears to be that it was popular for concealed carry. I believe this was one of the reasons it was favored, because civilian sword carry was no longer fashionable or socially acceptable. The same conditions exist today. The Bowie is different than the sword, because it is quite suitable for concealed carry, and probably more of them have been intended for concealed carry than for open. The problem with this in current times are the many States' laws that would prohibit their concealed carry. However, in the States where it is legal, it is practiced. Just because the Bowie is large for a knife, we musn't lose sight of the fact that it is an EDC and a concealed carry weapon. It was always intended that way. Limiting it to open carry in historical re-enactment or home defense is not true to its original intent.
You're right. I think they failed to reproduce the fuller correctly. It appears they also ground the blade differently. The originals had wider flats. I do not know how this affects the blade's balance point, distribution of mass, rotational impact and harmonic nodes. One would probably have to acquire an antique and compare them in testing.
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2013
- Messages
- 3,989
Btw, these observations I make on the CS 1917 Cutlass model are not aimed at badmouthing the product, since I still feel that it is a nice sword in it's own right (especially at the price it can be had for) ☺
That's true. But I am thinking in terms of realistic practical scenarios in current times. For most people, a full-sized bowie(size being a relative term) is just too heavy and cumbersome to lug around every day as an EDC. There are smaller bowie designs available, however. I just personally wouldn't want to EDC a 12-inch 2 lb blade. As far as the legal issues, that would also be on my mind. A jury is likely not going to see getting caught concealing a 12-inch bowie on your person in the same way they would a four-inch folder. There's also the fact that even if you used the knife in self defense while in public, a jury will still likely slap you with a felony for CCW. If someone breaks into your home and you hack off an arm, that's totally different than being out in public. There probably won't even be an official inquiry.
Mike Sastre
Custom Crafted Concealex Sheaths
- Joined
- Mar 23, 1999
- Messages
- 1,919
I definitely agree, as I've been carrying a Bowie that large for over 20 years, either one of my Bagwells or a SM Laredo. In the summer, it's always the Laredo because of the heat and humidity here, and it conceals very well in shorts and t-shirt. The leather factory sheath works fine, but one of my custom Southern Comfort sheaths works much better because os the thinner profile and easy smooth release.
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2011
- Messages
- 30,784
Huh..heat and humidity in ohio?
Mike Sastre
Custom Crafted Concealex Sheaths
- Joined
- Mar 23, 1999
- Messages
- 1,919
Summertime in SW Ohio .. hell yes, plus I've spent a lot of time in the South as well.
Cobalt
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 1998
- Messages
- 17,721
I purchased the Frontier Bowie last. Week. I already own the Trail master and Naschez models. I paid $108 on Amazon.
I got the Frontier Bowie primarily for aesthetics. I am into cowboy action shooting and thought it would make a nice semi-period piece. In general, I have had good luck with Cold Steel. The only lemon I ever received was their Napolean Sword(their swords are nowhere near up to the same standards as their knives IMO).
I wasn't sure what to expect in terms of overall blade finish based on the description and the photos I have seen. I also head the QC could be hit or miss. I am pretty happy with my sample. Fit and finish are excellant. No loose parts. Very well done blade finish in gunmetal blue. I was actually expecting something of a more antique finish on the blade. It is relatively high gloss. I can live with that but was hoping for more of a rustic antique type finish.
Sharpness out of the box was moderate. My other two Bowie's came pretty sharp for my standards. The Frontier needed some work to get it sharp enough to cut throughout the entire blade length. The tip felt unsharpened entirely.
I do not plan on using this as a heavy duty field knife and it will be mainly a rig and showpiece for my cowboy action setup.
The Leather sheath is of good quality. The frog attachment is very sturdy and nicely done as well.
The wood handle grip is of high quality and fit and finish to the tang are excellent and flush. I only detect a very slight gap in the fit to the tang on the front. Unlike the sword, you would have to really inspect it to notice any gap. I really like the rustic look that the wood adds to the overall aesthetics of the knife.
Considering what I paid and the quality of the product I received, I would give it a 9 out of 10 in the aesthetics department. I have not used the knife in the field so cannot provide any input on how it handled. This is going to be a showpiece.
Here are some photos I took with my cell phone. The knife blends well with the blued finish on my revolver and 1873 Cimarron.
Also...the only real negative thing I have to say is probably trivial but when I opened the packaging for the knife, it wreaked. I know the grease the they ship in has an odor to it but this one smelled like something crawled up inside the package and died. It was that bad. It still smells kind of funky inside the sheath but I have aired it out and cleaned it up a bit.
Beautiful knife. The bluing is a nice touch
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2013
- Messages
- 2,807
I love the look of that knife. Gorgeous.
Does anyone know what kind of wood the handle slabs are made of?
Does anyone know what kind of wood the handle slabs are made of?
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2013
- Messages
- 3,989
Rosewood