My Great Uncles' Penknives: A dedication and discussion on 'coarse' fishing.

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I recently included these knives as part of my introductory thread 'The Past Lives of Penknives'. They have come down to me from my great uncles and are as such, apart from being great knives, for me worthy of further discussion. My great uncles Jim and Ron were working class lads from the east end of London and like many others similar spent the majority of there leisure time angling or coarse fishing. Okay, it's at this stage that I should explain, particularly for our American members who may not already be familiar with this terminology, that by 'angling' I mean fishing with rod and line on fresh-water rivers, streams, lakes and canals. By 'coarse' I mean that pertaining to fishing for all freshwater species except trout and salmon; the pursuit of which, in the past, was the domain of the upper classes, who, not given to the consumption of the 'lesser' varieties, were less inclined to fish for them. The derogatory term 'coarse' has, in England, developed to describe not only the fish found less palatable to the tastes of the upper classes but also to the means by which they are caught. Broadly speaking, the salmon and trout are caught with the fly and the rest with the float, the leger and the lure. The working classes, however, have shown less disdain for the variety of fish in the fresh waters of England or the various means by which to catch them. Anyway, getting back to it, Jim and Ron were expert anglers and fished the various freshwater venues in and around London for many years. A particular favourite for them was the North Metropolitan gravel pits in Waltham Abbey, where they had many of their best days fishing together, as well as many of their best catches. My brother and nephew are fishing the 'North Met' on the very day that I write this thread, keeping this particular tradition alive and well. Though they often fished alone, my uncles enjoyed many trips together, not just in the 'big smoke' but around England and Ireland, where, now fishing for trout and salmon, they were to master the arts of fly-fishing as well. The knives shown here were with them on their many adventures and are kept amongst my most treasured possessions; alongside my great granddad's WW1 pocket watch, my granddad's wrist watch and uncle Ron's harmonica, which I was also lucky enough to have inherited. We were very fortunate as youngsters to have had such wonderful grandparents and relatives around us whilst we were growing up, and my great uncles were a big part of that. They joined us at Christmas and on family holidays to Sussex, where I now live, and always made things fun and exciting. They were great role-models and we were truly lucky to have had them. So here's to Jim and Ron.......Good on you lads !

Untitled by marksawdust123, on Flickr

Untitled by marksawdust123, on Flickr

Untitled by marksawdust123, on Flickr

Untitled by marksawdust123, on Flickr

Untitled by marksawdust123, on Flickr

Untitled by marksawdust123, on Flickr

Untitled by marksawdust123, on Flickr

Untitled by marksawdust123, on Flickr

Untitled by marksawdust123, on Flickr

Untitled by marksawdust123, on Flickr

Untitled by marksawdust123, on Flickr

Uncle Jim by marksawdust123, on Flickr Uncle Ron by marksawdust123, on Flickr

I would be interested to know the exact age of these knives and was wondering what the handles/scales were made of: I think one obviously has plastic scales and I think the others are horn or antler but I'm not sure. Also, I think the three bladed knife is a 'stockman' but what would be the correct name for the two bladed one ? Many thanks.
 
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Great knives. Thanks for sharing their history with us.

The Christopher Johnson stockman could very well have been made by G. Wostenholm. Wostenholm bought the C J name and trademark in 1955. It has synthetic stag scales and the oil the joints marks which Wostenholm used around that time.

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Thanks a lot S-K that's great. The knife illustrated certainly looks like mine doesn't it. Whatever they used to imitate stag horn certainly looks the part and has really stood the test of time. Sixty years old wow!, perhaps he decided to treat himself when things began to pick up after the war. Much appreciated.
 
I recently included these knives as part of my introductory thread 'The Past Lives of Penknives'. They have come down to me from my great uncles and are as such, apart from being great knives, for me worthy of further discussion. My great uncles Jim and Ron were working class lads from the east end of London and like many others similar spent the majority of there leisure time angling or coarse fishing.

Thank for the explanation. I've seen that term from time to time and always wondered what it meant. Turns out the boy and I do a bit of 'coarse fishing' as well! :)

The knives shown here were with them on their many adventures and are kept amongst my most treasured possessions ... We were very fortunate as youngsters to have had such wonderful grandparents and relatives around us whilst we were growing up, and my great uncles were a big part of that.

Untitled by marksawdust123, on Flickr

Uncle Jim by marksawdust123, on Flickr Uncle Ron by marksawdust123, on Flickr

Those two knives (stockman pattern) look fantastic. What treasured keepsakes to have! And your great uncles Jim and Ron look like great guys as well. Our kind of folks!

Thanks for sharing,

-- Mark
 
Yeah they certainly were real characters and good fun as you can see. Glad you found the 'coarse' thing interesting too. Thanks for your interest and tight lines! to you and your boy, as we say in Blighty.
 
Another great thread Blake :thumbup: As always, Smiling-Knife is bang on the money :) I have two of the Wostenholm's and they're definitely doppelgangers!
 
Great! That's that one solved then, thanks for confirming. I'll do a bit of research on the Wostenholme connection. How would you describe the other knife, 'stockman'?
 
Great! That's that one solved then, thanks for confirming. I'll do a bit of research on the Wostenholme connection. How would you describe the other knife, 'stockman'?

Not a Stockman I don't think, but perhaps a Premium Stock Knife. Maybe a Premium Pen Knife (though arguably, the size makes it more of a double-end Jack) :confused:
 
Thanks for the suggestions Jack. They make a nice pair don't they: one for work, one for best. Almost exactly the same main blade, size and general shape. Like the sound of the double-end Jack best.
 
Thanks for the suggestions Jack. They make a nice pair don't they: one for work, one for best. Almost exactly the same main blade, size and general shape. Like the sound of the double-end Jack best.

A very nice pair indeed my friend, your uncles had great taste. I had an equal end penknife very similar in appearance to the Southern & Richardson in terms of the covers and shield :)
 
Fascinating on "coarse fishing." Here on the newer side of the pond, coarse fish refers generally to carp and buffalo and gar, the latter two of which I believe are North American species only.

What English/British species are there between the "noble" salmon and trout and the coarse carp? Here we have some of the best-eating freshwater fish you'll find: crappie (south), walleye (north), bluegill and related sunfish or panfish (everywhere), bass (south, closely related to bluegill but much larger), and pike/pickerel (north).
 
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